PCT review, too many AI's???

[larry79]

34 years old Training along time.

6ft 1in
220ish lbs, 14%ish bodyfat

Goal to bulk with min fat of course

Diet will be starting 500 above maintenance and I will keep adjusting it every week.

No ASS previous cycle?s, a bunch of prohormone ones.

Current training program is 5daw



Test:
Wk 1-10-Tes P (I need a short clearing ester for personal reasons)
Starting off 100mg EOD and then ramping up to 175 eod or until the bottle is done
Wk 1-10 RX: Aromasin 12.5 ed

HCG:
Week 6-10 (I only have 5000ui)
500ui twice a week

Orals:
Wk 2-7 Ultradrol (I have several bottles and need to finish them)
Wk 2-7 Liver 52ds, cycle assist, and UDCA


PCT
Wk 10-14 or 3 days after last pin depending on how is much left in my bottle
RX: Clomid 50,50,50,50

RC: Nolva 40,40,20,20
RX: Aromain: 25,25,12.5, 12.5

Rebound:
Wk 15: RX: Aromasin 12.5


I welcome all remarks and comments.

 

[StanG]

Do you need the ai too? I just ordered my pct stuff and didnt plan on using one in pct - just nolva and clomid. Im interested in the responses. Why did you add it in there if i can ask ?
I do have some i ordered exem nolv and clom from cem and got it yesterday but I dont think id have enough exeme to add to pct too ..in fact i know i wouldnt.

 

[larry79]

After researching for month's, I still have not found The Perfect way of any PCT. So I am throwing this out to the forum to see what everyone else thinks.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

I think that there is no need for an ai in pct. If fact i dont like the idea at all. The only way we get estrogen is from test aromatizing...we have zero test...so we have zero estrogen. The sad fact is during out whole pct elevated estrogen will not b an issue as out test levels wont get high enough for it to be. Also you dont need the ai at the end for rebound if running a serm based pct. I like the clomig / nolva pct.
HCG i like 250iu - 2x/week //so double the length of time you take it and take it up to pct.
Take ai up to pct.
Just my opinions of course.

 

[StanG]

I think that there is no need for an ai in pct. If fact i dont like the idea at all. The only way we get estrogen is from test aromatizing...we have zero test...so we have zero estrogen. The sad fact is during out whole pct elevated estrogen will not b an issue as out test levels wont get high enough for it to be. Also you dont need the ai at the end for rebound if running a serm based pct. I like the clomig / nolva pct.
HCG i like 250iu - 2x/week //so double the length of time you take it and take it up to pct.
Take ai up to pct.
Just my opinions of course.

Makes sense as far as not needing the ai in pct. At least to me it does. If it isnt there then why?

 

[brundel]

A HUGE part of what gets natural test levels running is having estro low.
Because estro is manufactured primarily from testosterone in men there is a feedback loop.
When estro is excessively low the brain turns on the switch to make more testosterone to in turn make more estrogen.
Post cycle elevated estrogen is a primary concern.
Use an AI for PCT.

Even if it totally crushes estro its only for 4 weeks and will lead to a better recovery of your testosterone levels.

 

[Goldenera]

A HUGE part of what gets natural test levels running is having estro low.
Because estro is manufactured primarily from testosterone in men there is a feedback loop.
When estro is excessively low the brain turns on the switch to make more testosterone to in turn make more estrogen.
Post cycle elevated estrogen is a primary concern.
Use an AI for PCT.

Even if it totally crushes estro its only for 4 weeks and will lead to a better recovery of your testosterone levels.

Agreed and u also won't have to worry about estro rebounding after pct if there was any still in the system from the cycle.

 

[AugustWest]

brundel and goldenera basically covered it.

I personally would drop Nolva (sicne it lowers IGF) and keep the Aromasin. Aromasin is suicidal so it will prevent estro rebound and also boosts test levels like Nolva and Clomid. The combination of Clomid and Aromasin will most likely do the trick.

Also keep the Aromasin at 12.5mg ED. 25mg ED is overkill IMO, and if Estro dips too low, itl kill libido. You have it dosed at 12.5mg ED while on Test, but double it once you are off it? doesnt make sense.

But of course, bloodwork is the only way to really know your exact levels.

Also run your Clomid dose like this 100/75/50/50

you wanna dose high the first week to get blood levels up, then taper down.

 

[blergs.]

34 years old Training along time.

6ft 1in
220ish lbs, 14%ish bodyfat

Goal to bulk with min fat of course

Diet will be starting 500 above maintenance and I will keep adjusting it every week.

No ASS previous cycle?s, a bunch of prohormone ones.

Current training program is 5daw



Test:
Wk 1-10-Tes P (I need a short clearing ester for personal reasons)
Starting off 100mg EOD and then ramping up to 175 eod or until the bottle is done
Wk 1-10 RX: Aromasin 12.5 ed

HCG:
Week 6-10 (I only have 5000ui)
500ui twice a week

Orals:
Wk 2-7 Ultradrol (I have several bottles and need to finish them)
Wk 2-7 Liver 52ds, cycle assist, and UDCA


PCT
Wk 10-14 or 3 days after last pin depending on how is much left in my bottle
RX: Clomid 50,50,50,50

RC: Nolva 40,40,20,20
RX: Aromain: 25,25,12.5, 12.5

Rebound:
Wk 15: RX: Aromasin 12.5


I welcome all remarks and comments.

WTF is " Rebound:
Wk 15: RX: Aromasin 12.5 "

???

this is the AI the AI is to be use on cycle not after cycle.
use it week1-11.

 

[blergs.]

brundel and goldenera basically covered it.

I personally would drop Nolva (sicne it lowers IGF) and keep the Aromasin. Aromasin is suicidal so it will prevent estro rebound and also boosts test levels like Nolva and Clomid. The combination of Clomid and Aromasin will most likely do the trick.

Also keep the Aromasin at 12.5mg ED. 25mg ED is overkill IMO, and if Estro dips too low, itl kill libido. You have it dosed at 12.5mg ED while on Test, but double it once you are off it? doesnt make sense.

But of course, bloodwork is the only way to really know your exact levels.

Also run your Clomid dose like this 100/75/50/50

you wanna dose high the first week to get blood levels up, then taper down.

blood levels up? dude they rise in 1-2 days this is not deca. 50mg ed is enough and nothing wrong with nolva i would rec to add 20mg ed along with the clomid.

PCT is what 3-4 weeks? you are worried about igf levels from nolva?
it helps you recover regardless and you are only using it for 3-4 weeks so that should not be a factor to NO use it, in my op.

I would not say use JUST the AI . if all you have is those two then use the nolva...

 

[AugustWest]

i didnt mean Test blood levels, i meant Clomid blood levels, not sure where our info differs but going with high dosages week 1 is standard practice.

And why would you wanna lower IGF levels at a critical time such as PCT be it for 5 days or 4 weeks?

Also combining nolva AND clomid wreaks havoc on some peoples emotions.

Also your comment asking what rebound is and not to use an AI in PCT. I can tell from your posts you feel like you know it all BUT using an AI in PCT is also common practice. Aromasin has been shown in many studies to raise test levels just like Nolva.

Also "rebound" is when you stop using an AI during PCT, and your dormant estro "rebounds" back.

Do you know what a "suicidal" AI is? well in this case Aromasin is suicidal and renders the aromatase enzyme inactive for good, so in the case of Aromasin, rebound is not possible but still recommended to use in PCT to cover any remnants and to boost test levels.

Now if you were taking Anastrozole (arimidex), it is not suicidal. So upon cessation of its use, the dormant estro makes a comeback.

Relax dude, everyone is dif, no need to act like you know it all, which stemming from you not understanding the term "suicidal" leads me to believe you do not.

P.S. Back on track OP, your week 15 "rebound" is not needed. continuing your AI for 4 weeks through PCT will be enough to combat any still aromatizing compounds. AT any rate feel free to still use Nolva, BUT I still think u should keep Aromasin in PCT. it is not abnormal to do so.

 

[Jimmyinkedup]

This is what Dr Michael Scally , the foremost expert on treating steroid induced andropause (shutdown) has to say :
"Clomiphene is an antiestrogen, which decreases the estrogen effect in the body. It has a dual effect by stimulating the hypothalamic pituitary area and it has an antiestrogenic effect, so that it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body. Tamoxifen is more of a strict antiestrogen, it decreases the effect of estrogen in the body, and potentiates the action of clomiphene. Tamoxifen and clomiphene citrate compete with estrogen for estrogen receptor bind*ing sites, thus eliminating excess estrogen circulation at the level of the hypothalamus and pituitary, allowing gonadotropin production to resume. Administering them together produces an elevation of LH and secondar*ily gonadal sex hormones. " Dr Michael Scally

He also has peer review studies that support his contention that clomid/nolva is the most effective combo at restarting/restoring hpta function.
Hormone production far outweighs a minimal decrease in igf from nolva because of its metabolism in the liver. Do you know some steroids actully decrease igf ? Most dont they increase it , but some do. Just pointing a few things out.
To each his own.

 

[AugustWest]

Thanks for that Jimmy, now that is evidence i can get behind. I had no idea that Nolva potentiates Clomid. At any rate, using Aromasin is still not uncommon, since it in itself raises test levels as well.

repped

P.S. I cant handle clomid and nolva together. my emotions go crazy, so Clomid/Aromasin it is for me. always worked great

 

[brundel]

Clomid makes me feel like killing myself.

Hrt for the win.

 

[hypo_glycemic]

^ This

 

[iSteroids]

34 years old Training along time.

6ft 1in
220ish lbs, 14%ish bodyfat

Goal to bulk with min fat of course

Diet will be starting 500 above maintenance and I will keep adjusting it every week.

No ASS previous cycle?s, a bunch of prohormone ones.

Current training program is 5daw



Test:
Wk 1-10-Tes P (I need a short clearing ester for personal reasons)
Starting off 100mg EOD and then ramping up to 175 eod or until the bottle is done
Wk 1-10 RX: Aromasin 12.5 ed

HCG:
Week 6-10 (I only have 5000ui)
500ui twice a week

Orals:
Wk 2-7 Ultradrol (I have several bottles and need to finish them)
Wk 2-7 Liver 52ds, cycle assist, and UDCA


PCT
Wk 10-14 or 3 days after last pin depending on how is much left in my bottle
RX: Clomid 50,50,50,50

RC: Nolva 40,40,20,20
RX: Aromain: 25,25,12.5, 12.5

Rebound:
Wk 15: RX: Aromasin 12.5


I welcome all remarks and comments.

lower your aromasin dosage on the rebound part

Aromasin-Exemestane - iSteroids.com

 

[larry79]

Thank you everyone for your input:

 

[MattPorter]

I would not BULK up while 15% bf......I would focus on a recomp and hold your bodyweight while losing BF% ...

You will inevitably gain more BF% while going into a caloric surplus UNLESS you respond so favorably to the androgens that you just hold body fat or 'freeze it" if you will while adding LBM.

I always liked aromasin for PCT as it doesn't lower igf-1, doesnt cause a rebound, doesnt drive lipids into the gutter and will raise T.

If using a serm...low dose nolva will mentally make you feel better than clomid....

There are some good OTC pct products too..

-Matt