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Serious Gyno help needed!!!

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I can run proviron for 5.5 years for $400, dht isnt going to provide any benefits that another non-aromatizing, non-progestin androgen of a similar rating. Dht isnt the only compound that causes hairloss, prostate growth, libido increase etc. anything with a strong androgenic rating will cause these things, even if it isnt susceptible to 5-alpha reductase. It isnt some mythical compound that works differently than all others, it just so happens to be the one your body produces. the whole point is to increase the androgen/estrogen ratio which can help with gyno, there are much more cost effective ways to do that is what im saying, and you simply cant deny that.

Except DHT has been specifically shown to downregulate ER*, which Proviron has not been shown to do. DHT is suggested for more than just being a strong androgen.


*Attenuation of estrogenic effects by dihydrotest... [Biol Reprod. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI
 
Dude -- do not run testosterone if you are gyno prone....

If you must cycle --- use EQ + Masteron .....or Npp + masteron or....Var/ tren cycle perhaps....

You need to elevate DHT levels and not drive your lipids and immune down to shit with Letro...

-Matt
 
Dude -- do not run testosterone if you are gyno prone....

If you must cycle --- use EQ + Masteron .....or Npp + masteron or....Var/ tren cycle perhaps....

You need to elevate DHT levels and not drive your lipids and immune down to shit with Letro...

-Matt


-use anavar
-not destroy lipids


choose one :coffee:
 
Except DHT has been specifically shown to downregulate ER*, which Proviron has not been shown to do. DHT is suggested for more than just being a strong androgen.


*Attenuation of estrogenic effects by dihydrotest... [Biol Reprod. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI


Even testosterone will suppress estrogen receptor expression, as will any androgen. A more favorable Androgen/estrogen ratio is the desired goal and any androgen can be used to achieve this. Obviously one that doesn't aromatize or interact with progesterone receptors, and has a high androgenic ratio will be favorable to testosterone, but there are plenty of these available. ALL of them more cost effective than Androhard.

Testosterone inhibits estrogen-induced mammary epith... [FASEB J. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI


I understand you are doing your job, but I don't appreciate your company's tradition of using misleading information to sell your overpriced DHEA products.
 
Even testosterone will suppress estrogen receptor expression, as will any androgen. A more favorable Androgen/estrogen ratio is the desired goal and any androgen can be used to achieve this. Obviously one that doesn't aromatize or interact with progesterone receptors, and has a high androgenic ratio will be favorable to testosterone, but there are plenty of these available. ALL of them more cost effective than Androhard.

Testosterone inhibits estrogen-induced mammary epith... [FASEB J. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI


I understand you are doing your job, but I don't appreciate your company's tradition of using misleading information to sell your overpriced DHEA products.

You seem to miss a giant point in our products. They are legal. They are available over the counter, and one can receive no reprimand for using them. The issue with message boards, is that those that justify the usage of AAS in their own life, seem to think that everyone is willing to make the same justification. I know a guy who competed back when they didn't know what the fuck they were using. Injected an oil on the premise that it would make them larger or leaner. Now that same guy will only use over the counter hormones...why? Because his family, career, etc.. mean more to him than the ability to use AAS. Their is a market for these products, and we meet them. You can argue cost all day long, but in the end, cost is relative to the person. The cost to producing these products (adding an ester, sourcing raws, quality testing (please tell me your UGL does this so I can roll my eyes), and creating a delivery mechanism that will support the bioavailability of these compounds) is not cheap.

The fact of the matter is that only DHT has been utilized in a clinical setting to demonstrate the reduction of estrogen. Not Proviron, certainly not testoterone, etc...but DHT. I have a connection to many sources, and I have yet to see DHT as a base hormone made available. I do know, however, that the hormones found in AndroHard can and will convert to DHT and will result in circulating DHT.

AndroHard itself, is actually by far and large, the number one product we have that is purchased for use along side injectable AAS cycles. From those who have used it in low dose along side their prescribed TRT, to those who swear by the support it provides to their cycles. We even had a member on PP's board claim that he enjoys using AndroHard over Masteron. This is not exactly a stance I can see myself taking, but it shows you the effectiveness of these products none-the-less. Before you claim his inexperience, he has multiple very complex cycles under his belt, and the comparison between masteron and androhard were both while running t-prop/tren-ace/slin.

What is the point of all of this? The point is that you discount this product because it is over the counter and it isn't as cheap as the oils and orals you can get from your mail order source. The fact of the matter is that this product is heavily utilized (i would argue it is the number one selling AndroSeries product, but I don't have numbers in front of me) by people for various reasons, being it's effectiveness, its track record of gyno reduction, or its legal status. I am done with the back and forth with you. You can continue to jump in any thread I/we comment in with your better-than-thou approach, but it is a matter of opinion, one that many disagree with you on.
 
I concede you are correct on the legality issue, it isnt one to me but I'm sure it is to many. I only meant to point out some cheaper alternatives to the op, and i apologize for getting personal. I still think the product should be cheaper but I will refrain from commenting anymore.
 
-use anavar
-not destroy lipids


choose one :coffee:

Sure var will skew lipids --- but letro will hurt your immune system sex drive, joints, and risk an estrogen rebound as well....

-Matt
 
If I had insurance I would be all over trying to get them to cover it. That's not even an option. I think I'm going to look into a consultation this week with a plastic surgeon. My fear is they won't work with me and I'll have no choice but to keep self treating it. If thats the case I want to go the best route possible, but at the same time I dont want to have to give up taking "enhancers"......
Nolva ed is first thing you should do.. then, back that up with an AI(only when on test, or aromatizable androgens...), halotest is excellent at helping reduce the 'lump', it is fda approved for use in post menopausal women for breast cancer(as a second or third line of treatment... due to the androgenic sides it produces), and, as digital said, masteron, mdht, proviron.. any of these HIGHLY ANDROGENIC, non aromatizable androgens will help to some degree...

If you are going to run a cycle, don't even consider things such as dbol, methyltest(not that many use it, but some do... especially powerlifters), cheque 'drops'(mibolerone),any orals that can aromatize, generally aromatize to methylated estrogens(which, like oral androgens... tend to aromatize to MUCH stronger estrogens, and are far more difficult to 'control' the estro sides).. stay away from 19nors, as they can potentiate the effects of estrogen(the progestin sides)... and base your cycles off of compounds such as primobolan(yes, it is pricey.. so is surgery), EQ(aromatizes at half the rate of test), masteron, 1-test cyp(if you can find it), and other compounds that either are low aromatization, or no aromatization.. you will not get the amount of sheer mass gains, but what you do gain will be very high quality muscle and you are more likely to keep most or all of it(due to less suppression, and less water retention)... there are several orals that don't aromatize, or only to the slightest degree(anavar, turinabol, halotest M1T methyl dht, ptren, winstrol... a few more...) stacked correctly, these can still put great gains on you!
 
Nolva ed is first thing you should do.. then, back that up with an AI(only when on test, or aromatizable androgens...), halotest is excellent at helping reduce the 'lump', it is fda approved for use in post menopausal women for breast cancer(as a second or third line of treatment... due to the androgenic sides it produces), and, as digital said, masteron, mdht, proviron.. any of these HIGHLY ANDROGENIC, non aromatizable androgens will help to some degree...

If you are going to run a cycle, don't even consider things such as dbol, methyltest(not that many use it, but some do... especially powerlifters), cheque 'drops'(mibolerone),any orals that can aromatize, generally aromatize to methylated estrogens(which, like oral androgens... tend to aromatize to MUCH stronger estrogens, and are far more difficult to 'control' the estro sides).. stay away from 19nors, as they can potentiate the effects of estrogen(the progestin sides)... and base your cycles off of compounds such as primobolan(yes, it is pricey.. so is surgery), EQ(aromatizes at half the rate of test), masteron, 1-test cyp(if you can find it), and other compounds that either are low aromatization, or no aromatization.. you will not get the amount of sheer mass gains, but what you do gain will be very high quality muscle and you are more likely to keep most or all of it(due to less suppression, and less water retention)... there are several orals that don't aromatize, or only to the slightest degree(anavar, turinabol, halotest M1T methyl dht, ptren, winstrol... a few more...) stacked correctly, these can still put great gains on you!


Agreed on halotest androgenic properties but the liver toxicity is too harsh for prolong usage.

For spiking high DHT and 3a-DIOL levels to supra-physiological levels --- efficiently absorbed Ester-based Androsterone will achieve this feature...

Refer to this PDF file for sky high DHT and 3aDIOL levels after 2-6 hours of ingesting Ester based Androsterone (AndroHard)



-Matt
 

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Thanks everyone for all the info...I will follow the suggestions to leave out the test, but if I must use the letro which I just got, how should I go about it...I dont want my sex drive to take a dive....Letro, winnie and....halotest?
 
I'm thinking once I get the gyno under control with the letro I'll switch over to nolva....
 
Agreed on halotest androgenic properties but the liver toxicity is too harsh for prolong usage.

For spiking high DHT and 3a-DIOL levels to supra-physiological levels --- efficiently absorbed Ester-based Androsterone will achieve this feature...

Refer to this PDF file for sky high DHT and 3aDIOL levels after 2-6 hours of ingesting Ester based Androsterone (AndroHard)



-Matt
Matt, I am in no way belittling your product... I have far more respect for you to do so.... I know that anything you are willing to stand behind is legitimate in its claims.... I was just putting my 2cents in, as many people are way too quick to jump on the letro bandwagon(when nolva, in fact, is BETTER at reducing gyno than letro because it displaces estrogen at the source of the problem....).. Basically what I was saying backs up your claims for your product, if anything(by stating how actual schedule 3 steroids, that are similar in action, will do the same)... I am positive that what you say Androhard does, it does well! I hail from the same area as you, that is where I got into bbing, and the same circle of friends are some of the people who've had the biggest impact in my years of bodybuilding... I trust, ultimately, their opinions, and by association, yours....

I'm glad that there is an effective legal product for people to choose, when the need arises(and it will arise in EVERY person that uses aas(or PH's) at some time! I hope your product does well nationwide, not just locally, where you are well known(there is something to be said for the person behind the product.... which is one of the reasons I GLADLY took airsealed2 up on his offer to have me as a rep(I think he is the best person to do business with, hands down... for every possible reason you could put forth, he exceeds!) Hopefully this is the case... I know there is a GREAT market there, but every other market that isn't tapped yet, is missing out!

anyway, just wanted to throw that in there... I didn't in any way, mean to belittle your product... I was actually using examples of similar 'products'(that aren't legal) that have the same effect, thereby giving your product a 'thumbs up' if you will....
 
I'm thinking once I get the gyno under control with the letro I'll switch over to nolva....
seriously bro... use the nolva as your first line of attack, with letro, or androhard, or adex, or aromasin to go along with it,,,,, you NEED to get the estrogen off the receptor!!(and, as a matter of fact, you could use the nolva and androhard.... then you would only need the slightest amt of letro(I'm assuming that's what you have on hand)... using excessive AI's is just a recipe for disaster... many people have told you what letro is capable of doing... and these things are COMMON, they are not things that MIGHT happen, they are things that WILL happen!

If you dont' wanna take my advice... PM heavyiron... he will tell you the same... and that guy knows his shit!!! letro is not very effective at reducing gyno by itself.. it lowers estrogen(period!)... nolva occupies the receptor!!! this is what you need to do first and foremost!(occupy the receptor)..... DHT will occupy the receptor also... I bet if you were polite in asking Matt., and Heretostudy, they would probably hook you up with a killer deal(they already said they will give out coupons)... and, in exchange for an accurate log, following their protocol.. they could probably do something extra for you(I don't want to speak for them... but I know Matt is a good guy.... shoot him a PM) It may end up being cheaper than getting all the other compounds to take care of this! Nolva isn't super expensive.. but if you are buying research supply serms or AI's, good luck with getting legit ones... we all know those are hit and miss, at best! There is a sponsor that I know carries nolva for a damn good price(I use it daily because it actually improves bloodwork when on cycle...) and he also carries aromasin(but aromasin is not cheap by any means... it is there for people that would rather not deal with the sides from adex and letro(adex put my cholesterol over 400.. from 2 month solid use.. .5mg eod... that's not good bro!!) You have to find a solid way to combat this permanently... If I didn't have access to nolva at a price that... I cant even buy 2lbs of protein for what 5g of nolva costs me... and aromasin as back up(and have contolled mine from the get go... you can bet your ass I would try androhard... it's a permanent solution that is only going to help your physique!)
 
Matt, I am in no way belittling your product... I have far more respect for you to do so.... I know that anything you are willing to stand behind is legitimate in its claims.... I was just putting my 2cents in, as many people are way too quick to jump on the letro bandwagon(when nolva, in fact, is BETTER at reducing gyno than letro because it displaces estrogen at the source of the problem....).. Basically what I was saying backs up your claims for your product, if anything(by stating how actual schedule 3 steroids, that are similar in action, will do the same)... I am positive that what you say Androhard does, it does well! I hail from the same area as you, that is where I got into bbing, and the same circle of friends are some of the people who've had the biggest impact in my years of bodybuilding... I trust, ultimately, their opinions, and by association, yours....

I'm glad that there is an effective legal product for people to choose, when the need arises(and it will arise in EVERY person that uses aas(or PH's) at some time! I hope your product does well nationwide, not just locally, where you are well known(there is something to be said for the person behind the product.... which is one of the reasons I GLADLY took airsealed2 up on his offer to have me as a rep(I think he is the best person to do business with, hands down... for every possible reason you could put forth, he exceeds!) Hopefully this is the case... I know there is a GREAT market there, but every other market that isn't tapped yet, is missing out!

anyway, just wanted to throw that in there... I didn't in any way, mean to belittle your product... I was actually using examples of similar 'products'(that aren't legal) that have the same effect, thereby giving your product a 'thumbs up' if you will....

Definitely not Matt, but thank you for the support. I am sure he will come in and respond similarly.

Heard very good things about AS2 as well.
 
seriously bro... use the nolva as your first line of attack, with letro, or androhard, or adex, or aromasin to go along with it,,,,, you NEED to get the estrogen off the receptor!!(and, as a matter of fact, you could use the nolva and androhard.... then you would only need the slightest amt of letro(I'm assuming that's what you have on hand)... using excessive AI's is just a recipe for disaster... many people have told you what letro is capable of doing... and these things are COMMON, they are not things that MIGHT happen, they are things that WILL happen!

If you dont' wanna take my advice... PM heavyiron... he will tell you the same... and that guy knows his shit!!! letro is not very effective at reducing gyno by itself.. it lowers estrogen(period!)... nolva occupies the receptor!!! this is what you need to do first and foremost!(occupy the receptor)..... DHT will occupy the receptor also... I bet if you were polite in asking Matt., and Heretostudy, they would probably hook you up with a killer deal(they already said they will give out coupons)... and, in exchange for an accurate log, following their protocol.. they could probably do something extra for you(I don't want to speak for them... but I know Matt is a good guy.... shoot him a PM) It may end up being cheaper than getting all the other compounds to take care of this! Nolva isn't super expensive.. but if you are buying research supply serms or AI's, good luck with getting legit ones... we all know those are hit and miss, at best! There is a sponsor that I know carries nolva for a damn good price(I use it daily because it actually improves bloodwork when on cycle...) and he also carries aromasin(but aromasin is not cheap by any means... it is there for people that would rather not deal with the sides from adex and letro(adex put my cholesterol over 400.. from 2 month solid use.. .5mg eod... that's not good bro!!) You have to find a solid way to combat this permanently... If I didn't have access to nolva at a price that... I cant even buy 2lbs of protein for what 5g of nolva costs me... and aromasin as back up(and have contolled mine from the get go... you can bet your ass I would try androhard... it's a permanent solution that is only going to help your physique!)


Good advice & yes I would be willing to hook someone up for a MIGHTY good deal, only because I trust the product and trust that people will like the quality.

-Matt
 
There you go, OP... they just said they would hook someone up!! give it a try.... and run a log.... You have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain there! I can say that if I had the need, I would try his product... Matt is a good guy, and he isn't gonna back ANYTHING that doesn't live up to the claims!
 
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