Older guy with questions.

[Austinite33]

I'm a 58 year old male and after the doctor discovered my T levels to be low and he prescribed HRT. (My body type is short (5'6") and when younger had a naturally lean somewhat muscular build. Looked good at say 150.) I decided to take advantage of the situation by eating better and getting in shape After a few months of dumbbells, bands and body weight exercises I started barbell work and have continued heavier workouts for the last 5 months. I look and feel a lot better having shed 25 lb's of fat and noticeably improving my muscle tone.

Though I should have nothing to complain about I'm frustrated because I'm finding size gains hard to come by. My routine is now Mixed grip pull ups 5 sets of 4. Deadlifts 80% of my max 5 sets of 6. Military press, 80% of max 5 sets of 6. Bench 80% of max 5 sets of 8. 2nd day is easier with 5 sets of barbell curls. 5 sets of crunches and a some tricep work. My flexed bicep is 14 1/2 and can't get that to change after 6 months of training. I eat a lot of protein and my weight has remained stable at 170 for the last two months. Would look better at 160 but am focusing on strength and size gains so I'm not ready to cut. Oh The routine above has a two day rest period between the two work out days. Any ideas or suggestions for improvement would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Paranoid Fitness]

Welcome to IMF.
Please read the forum rules and stickys.


First of all, good job posting such detailed info/stats. Most noobs don't (the first question is usually "where can I get???", or "how do I PM?").

A more detailed description of your diet would be helpful.
"A lot of protein" could mean so many things...

You really need to lift all the way to failure if you want size gains. There are differing opinions as to how often.
My guess is you probably need to eat more as well but I can't say for sure without knowing your diet.

There are a lot of people here willing to give advice especially when someone goes about asking the right way which you most certainly have.
I am sure you will receive helpful insight. here at IMF.

Please be sure to utilize the search box, it's there to help you find the information you need.

I hope you find your membership at IMF both educational and entertaining.

Good luck and again, welcome to IMF.

 

[bjg]

adding 1 inch on your arms is not that easy, it is equivalent of adding 1/6 of an inch all way around in radius.
in 6 months of training twice a week like you are doing it is not easy to get bigger arms. it is time to change your routine and start going 3 or 4 times a week to the gym. Also your reps are too low you need to go up to around 10-12 reps to gain size , what you are doing now will give you some strength but not much size anymore. easy on the deadlifts at your age heavy deadlifts can cause devastating injuries and are not that effective as thought to be in gaining arms size.
what you need to do is design a 3 or 4 days workout and lift slowly and smoothly for reps of 10-12.

 

[Z499]

dont worry about gaing size on your arms. go about a normal routine and your arms will take care of themselves. what i recommend is get a good back workout in and your biceps will be an indirect lift while working your back. Try these exercises Yates Row, Seated Cable row, ISO lat row, ISO high lat row, reverse grip lat pulldown. try those, 4 sets of 12 reps and to failure on last set of each exercise and increase weight each set.

 

[Austinite33]

Folks I appreciate the replies. To be honest I find the heavier weights (for me) at 6-8 reps for me takes it's toll in recovery time. My upper body can be tight for 3 days after. Will take the suggestion of more reps per set with fewer off days. I do push to failure (especially on the last set of an exercise) I also need to except the fact I'm not a kid and the body is not going to respond like it did when i was 25.

 

[Z499]

Talk to detmuscle on here he's around your age and can help you out a lot


Sent while doing arm curls in the squat rack

 

[flex365]

I'm a 58 year old male and after the doctor discovered my T levels to be low and he prescribed HRT. (My body type is short (5'6") and when younger had a naturally lean somewhat muscular build. Looked good at say 150.) I decided to take advantage of the situation by eating better and getting in shape After a few months of dumbbells, bands and body weight exercises I started barbell work and have continued heavier workouts for the last 5 months. I look and feel a lot better having shed 25 lb's of fat and noticeably improving my muscle tone.

Though I should have nothing to complain about I'm frustrated because I'm finding size gains hard to come by. My routine is now Mixed grip pull ups 5 sets of 4. Deadlifts 80% of my max 5 sets of 6. Military press, 80% of max 5 sets of 6. Bench 80% of max 5 sets of 8. 2nd day is easier with 5 sets of barbell curls. 5 sets of crunches and a some tricep work. My flexed bicep is 14 1/2 and can't get that to change after 6 months of training. I eat a lot of protein and my weight has remained stable at 170 for the last two months. Would look better at 160 but am focusing on strength and size gains so I'm not ready to cut. Oh The routine above has a two day rest period between the two work out days. Any ideas or suggestions for improvement would be appreciated. Thanks.

correct me if i'm wrong but your routine consists of only 2 workouts done twice a week? The lifts you're doing are basic compound movements which is fine but I would add at least 1 isolation exercise per body part for shaping and by all means increase the rep range up to 8-12. This range has been found to be most effective when the goal is muscle hypertrophy ( ie. size). I'm the same age as you I train only 1 or 2 body parts a day 5 days a week. I only count my working sets ( those done to failure) warm ups sets mean nothing because only those that require maximum effort promote growth. Some guys may only do 1 or 2 sets this way and anything after that results in diminising returns since max effort can only be attained once or twice. This kind of HIT ( high intesity training) has added an inch to my arms over the last 1- 1 1/2yrs. Make sure you allow more time for recovery before hitting the same bodypart, again I think once a week is enough at our age. You may need to increase your carbs to help with training energy. Eating clean with lots of protien is fine but may hold you back a little unless you're using AAS. Adding size without weight gain won't happen unless there's a drop in BF% at the same time. Carbs become increasingly more important as exercise intensity increases. Hope that helps, good luck.

 

[flex365]

check out the Dorian Yates blood and guts traing videos further on down the training page. that's what i'm talking about.

 

[REDDOG309]

All tho paranoid fitness does make some good points, I don't belive he is in his 50's. I am pushing 54 and I completely agree with you about 80% of max on your lifts. Even with HRT us older cats don't recover so well and break down much easier. That being said, for my best bicep work I do chin ups and cable rows, barbell curls and dumb bell curls. I do sets of 12 on my lifts. Good luck man, you didn't get fat over night and you won't get ripped overnight. We's a work in progress.

 

[Austinite33]

Thanks for the help and info folks. Red Dog I agree an older body needs more recovery time. The bod looks 35 now but the joints put in 35 years on construction sites.

BTY I am eating more in hopes of gaining some size. I just am afraid of too much weight gain. I worked very hard getting rid of 25 pounds of jello and am proud of my now flat stomach. Never want to go back from where i came.

 

[Austinite33]

check out the Dorian Yates blood and guts traing videos further on down the training page. that's what i'm talking about.

So Dorian has his guys do just one set after a warm up set or two?

 

[flex365]

Yes, but that is simply not possible for us older guys. I recommend doing as many warm up sets as you need before you go for a working set. i'm very careful and deliberate with warmups for the elbow/shoulder joints. just don't go beyond a moderate amount of effort while warming up. Save it all for your working sets. Don't forget to include plenty of fish oil and or joint support supplements.

 

[chocolatemalt]

So Dorian has his guys do just one set after a warm up set or two?

It's one or two, depending. If the muscles are already warm/stressed from previous exercises in the sequence he'll recommend just one working set and sometimes even skipping the warm-up, leaving just one rep total.

The biggest difference that I see with Yates' Blood & Guts and your own workout is the rest period. You mention feeling tight for 3 days after a high weight low reps workout, but this would fit nicely into the recommended (default) 7-day recovery.

I dunno if the Yates approach is the best one but it's been working nicely for me for the past 3 months. I deviated to high-volume lower-weights a few times to break plateaus (over-training probably) but otherwise it's good.

 

[chocolatemalt]

I meant "one set total" above, obviously... can't edit the post anymore.

 

[flex365]

Thanks for the help and info folks. Red Dog I agree an older body needs more recovery time. The bod looks 35 now but the joints put in 35 years on construction sites.

BTY I am eating more in hopes of gaining some size. I just am afraid of too much weight gain. I worked very hard getting rid of 25 pounds of jello and am proud of my now flat stomach. Never want to go back from where i came.

Most will tell you if you're gaining more than 1-2 lbs per week you need to cut back on food intake. it takes alot of extra cals over maintainance to produce weight gains. if you're current weight is 170 and you want to gain you'll need in the neighborhood of 3235 cals a day. 139g protein,508g carbs, and 72g of fat. Eat like this for at least 2wks and see what it does. Add cals or subtract based of how much weight if any you gain.

 

[flex365]

Most will tell you if you're gaining more than 1-2 lbs per week you need to cut back on food intake. it takes alot of extra cals over maintainance to produce weight gains. if you're current weight is 170 and you want to gain you'll need in the neighborhood of 3235 cals a day. 139g protein,508g carbs, and 72g of fat. Eat like this for at least 2wks and see what it does. Add cals or subtract based of how much weight if any you gain.

Obviously you can increase the amount of protien to 1-1 1/2 g per lb of bodyweight and reduce the carbs if you choose. 139g of protien is fairly conservative for a 170 pounder.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Folks I appreciate the replies. To be honest I find the heavier weights (for me) at 6-8 reps for me takes it's toll in recovery time. My upper body can be tight for 3 days after. Will take the suggestion of more reps per set with fewer off days. I do push to failure (especially on the last set of an exercise) I also need to except the fact I'm not a kid and the body is not going to respond like it did when i was 25.

Going To Failure

Pushing to failure has its place in training. Performing it every workout lead to overtraining and injuries.

The Pump

Arterial blood flows from the heart to the muscles.

When a muscle contraction occurs, it restricts venous blood flow from the muscle back to the heart.

In plain English, blood becomes trapped in the muscles creating The Pump.

The Pump creates an anabolic environment.

To provide The Pump effect you want to follow a certain critera...

1) 8-12 Repetitions

2) 3 Sets or more

3) 1-2 Minutes between sets.

4) Use Traing Percengates that are 65-80% of your 1 Repetition Max.

Occlusion Training

A controversial but effective method of increasing muscle mass is Occlusion Training using the same principle.

Occlusion Training is performed with...

1) Load of 20-50% of your 1 Repetition Max

2) Mega High Repetitions, 20 Repetitions plus

3) MODERATELY applying a tourniquet to your leg (lower body training) or arm (upper body training).

You want to apply between 100 mm/hg to 140 mm/hg of pressure. In plain English, on a pain scale of 10, you want about a 7.

MODERATELY applying a tourniquet allows arterial blood flow to the muscles while restricting most (not all) of the blood flow back to the heart.

Sounds Crazy

Yes, I know. That was my initial reaction back in 2008 when I read about it and began experimenting with it.

However, it is an effective training tool for increasing muscle mass.

Research

Research continues to show that Occlusion Training is a effective method of training.

Practical Occlusion Training
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/ABCocclusionpaper.pdf

Dr Layne Norton Vidoe
Occlusion Training with Dr. Layne Norton & Aaron Singerman - YouTube

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

So Dorian has his guys do just one set after a warm up set or two?

Yates

Yates initially built his psychique with traditional multiple sets...not with One Set To Failure.

Yate later became a disciple of Mike Mentzer and his "Heavy Duty Training", Authur Jones' Nautilus One Set To Failure Method.

Intensity

One thing the Going To Failure Method proved was that intenstiy is a huge key to increasing muscle mass and strength.

Injury

Yates career was cut short from his injuries from Training To Failure.

Albert Beckles (one of the great bodybuilders)

Beckles once said that training too heavy too long, "Freaks your mind out". That meaning that at some point, you just can't mentally do it.

Every Workout

Training to failure every workout at some point leads to overtraining, injuries and mental burn out.

Your body and mind can only take so much.

Bulgarian Weightlifters

The Bulgarians also proved that intensity is the key to becoming stronger. They pioneered High Intenisty/Multi Daily Sessions.

With this method the Bulgarian's literally produced World Champions over night.

The Downside

The Bulgarian lifters were also "One Hit Wonders". Only one lifter won more than one World Title.

While the Bulgarian program created champions over night, it lost them over night.

Russian Weightlifters

The Russians developed and maintained lifters who were repeat champions.

The Russians trained with intensity but took the long view. They programs push their lifters and then allowed for recovery.

The Short View

The Bulgarians definitely showed us the effectiveness of pushing the envelope.

They also proved it has a "Shooting Star" effect. You are here today and gone tomorrow.

The Long View

The Russians proved the virtues of being patient an persistant.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[flex365]

Yates

Yates initially built his psychique with traditional multiple sets...not with One Set To Failure.

Yate later became a disciple of Mike Mentzer and his "Heavy Duty Training", Authur Jones' Nautilus One Set To Failure Method.

Intensity

One thing the Going To Failure Method proved was that intenstiy is a huge key to increasing muscle mass and strength.

Injury

Yates career was cut short from his injuries from Training To Failure.

Albert Beckles (one of the great bodybuilders)

Beckles once said that training too heavy too long, "Freaks your mind out". That meaning that at some point, you just can't mentally do it.

Every Workout

Training to failure every workout at some point leads to overtraining, injuries and mental burn out.

Your body and mind can only take so much.

Bulgarian Weightlifters

The Bulgarians also proved that intensity is the key to becoming stronger. They pioneered High Intenisty/Multi Daily Sessions.

With this method the Bulgarian's literally produced World Champions over night.

The Downside

The Bulgarian lifters were also "One Hit Wonders". Only one lifter won more than one World Title.

While the Bulgarian program created champions over night, it lost them over night.

Russian Weightlifters

The Russians developed and maintained lifters who were repeat champions.

The Russians trained with intensity but took the long view. They programs push their lifters and then allowed for recovery.

The Short View

The Bulgarians definitely showed us the effectiveness of pushing the envelope.

They also proved it has a "Shooting Star" effect. You are here today and gone tomorrow.

The Long View

The Russians proved the virtues of being patient an persistant.

Kenny Croxdale

If you want contradict the "blood and guts" approach start another thread. that being said. Most of us know Yates didn't invent this method of training, he was simply the most well know bodybuilder to use it. He accomplished more in 10-15 yrs than any other champion before him. Was his career cut short? After 6 Olympia titles he was no spring chicken. He was injured performing a high risk exercise (biceps tear, reverse grip rows), not overtraining. Doing 6 sets of bench presses once a week for 1yr is 300 sets at least, doing 1-2 is only 50-100. Who's overtraining? Injuries most often occur performing high risk exercises or from over use (ie volume training). The blood and guts method is best served by seasoned lifters not newbies. Periodization of effort and intensity should be used with this approach. Wether you choose to lift light or heavy don't expect much in the way of results if you don't train to failure. "Training for Mass" by Gordon Lavelle is an excellent read btw.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

If you want contradict the "blood and guts" approach start another thread. that being said. Most of us know Yates didn't invent this method of training, he was simply the most well know bodybuilder to use it. He accomplished more in 10-15 yrs than any other champion before him. Was his career cut short? After 6 Olympia titles he was no spring chicken. He was injured performing a high risk exercise (biceps tear, reverse grip rows), not overtraining. Doing 6 sets of bench presses once a week for 1yr is 300 sets at least, doing 1-2 is only 50-100. Who's overtraining? Injuries most often occur performing high risk exercises or from over use (ie volume training). The blood and guts method is best served by seasoned lifters not newbies. Periodization of effort and intensity should be used with this approach. Wether you choose to lift light or heavy don't expect much in the way of results if you don't train to failure. "Training for Mass" by Gordon Lavelle is an excellent read btw.

Training To Failure

It has it place in training.

However, training to failure during every session will not take you to the promised land.

At some point, it becomes self destructive with chronic use.

Perhaps you need to start another thread on this.

I am sorry that your God is dead.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[bjg]

I respect the fact that Yates won 6 Mr. Olympia's but i do not think this means that his knowledge about training is exceptional, i really do not agree with his method of training as the BEST method.
i have to agree with Kenny here that training to failure every workout is not a good way of training at all.
I believe in multiple sets with of course enough recovery time. but i also think that variation is important so one can change from multiple sets to low volume low sets with high intensity and so on, but this should not be the basis for training.

 

[flex365]

Training To Failure

It has it place in training.

However, training to failure during every session will not take you to the promised land.

At some point, it becomes self destructive with chronic use.

Perhaps you need to start another thread on this.

I am sorry that your God is dead.

Kenny Croxdale

Quoting your boy in the video " Occlusion training is NOT a substitute for NORMAL or HEAVY training". It's a supplement. The same as
many other different methods used in training, negatives, drop sets, forced reps, etc. Is one able to train chest or back that way? Looks as though it's legs and arms only. Just say'in. Peace Out.

 

[Paranoid Fitness]

All tho paranoid fitness does make some good points, I don't belive he is in his 50's.

You are correct sir, I turned 45 in October 2012.