complication
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I don't think I've been so excited.
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6 week insulin run
- Thread starter theCaptn'
- Start date
yeap it sure shiet does, up to 40% of protein one eats can be converted to glucose. Hence why sometimes ppl may smell ammonia from their sweat from the process of protein being broken down to glucose for energy use.
ive been on humulog for 7 days ive been conservative with use but only this morn have I felt fuller and my
bf seems less, waist feels and looks smaller,does it take time to get the effects fully and how long on average.
Ive gained 4-5 pounds,also yesterday I pinned 10iu post then another 10iu 2 hours later with no sides what are
your thoughts on this..this is at 3xa week postw.
bf seems less, waist feels and looks smaller,does it take time to get the effects fully and how long on average.
Ive gained 4-5 pounds,also yesterday I pinned 10iu post then another 10iu 2 hours later with no sides what are
your thoughts on this..this is at 3xa week postw.
Sounds ok. Your slin meals are low fat? What's your weight/bf?
not sure on bf tbh 15.5st , my meals are basically 50-60 grams glucose ,creatine and whey then another 25 mins
later oats mixed with cornflakes milk whey or egg whites..maybe some raisins/banana ect .
on the hour il repeat the second meal and an hour after that shoot another 10-12 iu,im not sure
if this is why I feel so full today or whether its just the last 7 days kicking in,the pumps in the
gym are only a little better than norm,nothing special, see how next week goes..
ive only just started some organon sus + a test 400(been cruising for a while on 300mg)
so might see more when these kick in too.
I've experienced insulin resistance in the past and I felt flat no matter what I did. I did insulin cycles and even though I gained some weight it wasnt what I expected even with addition of GH.
After months on a low carb diet looks like I snapped out of it and now I get normal pumps most of the day and massive ones when I workout and eat a nice big carb meal with no anabolics right now.
fenriswolf80
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Is it possible to safely replace the final shake with one cup of oats and whey/egg whites?
After this last shake I would imagine there is still some residual exogenous insulin the body am I correct? How long after the last shake should a meal follow and what kind of macros are we talking about ideal for growth? Back to whatever normal meal macros we follow? Or something higher in carbs?
I've actually been lowering the carbs of my final shake. Down to 20g cyclic dextrins and 5g glucose. Thinking of playing with carbs of second shake as well. Couple of times I was unable to have third shake at all, just chicken and rice and I was fine. I try VERY HARD not to consume any fats for 5 hrs after pinning slin. I train late afternoon so my first "after" meal is around 8pm. I wanna add that I use a glucose meter RELIGIOUSLY, which allows me the luxury of dropping carbs lower while on slin. I absolutely know what is going on blood sugar wise throughout the active window. If ya can afford slin, protein, creatine, etc budget in a damn meter. Helps with your nerves as well. 
fenriswolf80
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Interesting! Yes, I'm definitely getting a glucometer before I start. When you say use it religiously what do you mean? How often do I need to be taking readings. And when will I be able to tell that I'm "good."
Do you see any issues replacing that final shake with oats and whey iso? I suppose the issue might be the fat content in the oats (3.6g)?
Standard Donkey
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the whole "no fat with insulin" is broscience... 
the whole "no fat with insulin" is broscience...
Interesting ... Some fat sources would be better over others then ... Say MCT or coconut oil.
fenriswolf80
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the whole "no fat with insulin" is broscience...
I've heard this a few times too. I'm interested in learning more on this point. I've read in the older sources of early bodybuilding use of exogenous insulin that dietary fat during the period where the insulin is active in the body is to be avoided at all cost. Then I've heard that there is no basis to make this claim either. So now I'm curious as to what the correct approach should be?
Standard Donkey
Registered
the big guys who I know who use insulin consume fats with it..to slow the digestion of carbs and proteins.. I tried insulin with no fats and my diet and I shrunk (cuz it cut over 1000 calories from my diet) but tried to make up for it by adding an extra meal of protein and carbs...I somehow got fatter doing this.
my IFBB pro coach has me consume fats in all meals with insulin
That makes good sense - thanks for the info
guys,,so yesterday ide thought ide push the carb dosage down some,so I had an am shot of 5iu with no foodand felt fine,
later had a pre workout meal ect went too gym,trained legs and halfway through started to get a bit fvcked up lol
so downed a high carb drink to finish off workout.I then had 12iu with aroung 60gms of carbs protein ect and chilled
out for a while when I got home...I went for a walk down the park for some cardio and started going a bit hypo again
so went back to house ate more food ect...could this still happen if I was insulin resistant is what I want too know?
as low sugar normally doesnt effect me like this...cheers. btw im up 8 pounds since last tues,and look a bit
leaner....fvck yeah.
later had a pre workout meal ect went too gym,trained legs and halfway through started to get a bit fvcked up lol
so downed a high carb drink to finish off workout.I then had 12iu with aroung 60gms of carbs protein ect and chilled
out for a while when I got home...I went for a walk down the park for some cardio and started going a bit hypo again
so went back to house ate more food ect...could this still happen if I was insulin resistant is what I want too know?
as low sugar normally doesnt effect me like this...cheers. btw im up 8 pounds since last tues,and look a bit
leaner....fvck yeah.
Having slin without a meal is dangerous bro
yes it was a bit retarded lol.im doing the above pre workout today although in going for 7 ius,and
all the drinks....ive drop a nap and some dboe's for extra effect..
judging so far I think I need like 7-8 gram per iu.
fenriswolf80
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This thread is such a wealth of information! I'm still reading and re-reading and learning as I go. Now, forgive me if its already been stated, but as far as the frequency of use: lets say I workout 4 x per week. I normally do legs, chest & shoulders, back, and arms. Arm day is comparatively easy next to say legs or back. Is there any danger or harm in using the full 15 IU even on arm day? Or should I use less based on the intensity of the workout? I don't plan on starting with 15 IU for any workout more like 5 IU to begin with, but I'm just trying to get a feel for the best policy in the future. Any opinions?
Use it based on experience, tolerance and diet. 15iu is high for a new user - for your 1st run 10-12iu is probably a good idea, start low as you mention and work your way up. That's my call, I'm a novice not an expert.
im stopping my slin I think 2 weeks at a time is enough for me maybe do 2on 2off...and next time
try on workout days only protocol post wo.its deffo made a diff in a short time, though il try and
get my sensitivity up for the next go, plenty of low carb days coming up.
try on workout days only protocol post wo.its deffo made a diff in a short time, though il try and
get my sensitivity up for the next go, plenty of low carb days coming up.
the whole "no fat with insulin" is broscience...
Im with you on this one. Im doing insulin daily on this cycle and I eat fat with my meals albeit I dont go crazy with it and I dont get fat at all. This insulin thing you just have to understand what is going on inside the body while taking it. Once you do it's a simple process.
AS for the insulin cycle above...If im right this guy says to take slin 45min before workout then wait 25min before taking in 50g of carbs... that;s stretching it and there is no reason to wait that long. I wait 10min on a solid meal, eat and then both peak same time. Sound too dangerously close to being hypo to do 15IU slin wait 25min then have 50g of carbs. I would not do it like this too many things that can go wrong. When I took that much insulin at once I took in 100g of carbs right off the bat with it plus another 50g later on. 8-10ius of insulin is more than enough to get results. At 15iu's you better fuck in eat a lot of food.
If you take too much insulin aka 15ius you have a good chance of geting fat and run a good chance of geting hypo with the slightest miscalculation. You better prick your finger every 15min for a good 2-3 hours.
5ius is more than enough insulin to make you hypo. If you are insulin resistant you will tend to run a higher blood glucose when fasted and take you longer to process glucose. So it explains why that 5 ius didnt affect you that much because your blood glucose may have been high but the second time you took 12iu with 60g of carbs that's completely wrong bro.
To be safe 1iu of insulin needs 8-10g of carbs. 12ius you shoud have consumed 100g of carbs or thereabout. You way underdosed your carbs and with the 5iu you took earlier it spells trouble. Im glad you ok there is no upside to take insulin without carbs only trouble.
Ok, since there are a lot of ppl interested in this thread I will post a simple insulin cycle and try to explain how exactely it works.
Lets start with how insulin works.
Basically there are 2 insulin responses in the body. One is when glucose is present in the blood stream from a meal the pancreas senses the glucose and releases insulin. Without a trigger insulin is not released in large quantities but secondly insulin is released in small quantities to keep the base glucose level around 90.
Now let's pass on the basal insulin levels and concentrate on the larger release. Why take insulin?
Well, insulin is like a key which attaches itself on the muscle cell receptor sending a signal inside the cell for a compound called GLUT-4 to come to the surface and take on glucose molecule. Once the glucose made it into the cell then there is an aerobic and anaerobic activitiy taking place. Aerobic means with oxygen present, anaerobic without oxygen.
Why is this important...ATP!!!
What's ATP is basically the fuel that runs the cell. So for you to grow cell must produce ATP to fuel the protein synthesis machinery. Also, ATP is used by just about every cell in the body.
So far so good. Well there is another wrinkle in this process....anaerobic activity doesnt make a whole lot of ATP at once but the speed at which it makes ATP is very great. On the other hand aerobic activity takes place in the mythocandria of the cell. THis process make I believe double the amount of ATP but it's much slower.
Here is the catch....If you take on too much insulin the cell can actually prevent the GLUT-4 from leting glucose into the cell to make ATP. THis happens if ATP production is not need it and/or if too much insulin is present. That's when insulin then floating around the body activates the adipose tissues and stores the glucose as triglycerides or fat.
So from my experience I try to not over do the insulin for this simple reason. I feel it creates too many problems as to insulin resistance or accelerated fat deposits. If you want to use more insulin I'd concentrate on using less than 10ius per shot and use it more often throughout the day to get more glucose in like that.
Here is a simple insulin cycle
After workout 10-15min inject 8-10iu of insulin type R (fast acting) followed by 75g of maltodextrin/50g protein/cup of whole milk mixed in. Done!If you wish to take some creatine now is the time.
LAter when you hungry eat a balanced meal. Now if you want to use insulin again it's fine. again 8-10iu with about 80g of carbs/50g of protein/some fat and you are done.
I hope I didnt miss anything as I wrote this from memory but I'll stand corrected if I did.
Lets start with how insulin works.
Basically there are 2 insulin responses in the body. One is when glucose is present in the blood stream from a meal the pancreas senses the glucose and releases insulin. Without a trigger insulin is not released in large quantities but secondly insulin is released in small quantities to keep the base glucose level around 90.
Now let's pass on the basal insulin levels and concentrate on the larger release. Why take insulin?
Well, insulin is like a key which attaches itself on the muscle cell receptor sending a signal inside the cell for a compound called GLUT-4 to come to the surface and take on glucose molecule. Once the glucose made it into the cell then there is an aerobic and anaerobic activitiy taking place. Aerobic means with oxygen present, anaerobic without oxygen.
Why is this important...ATP!!!
What's ATP is basically the fuel that runs the cell. So for you to grow cell must produce ATP to fuel the protein synthesis machinery. Also, ATP is used by just about every cell in the body.
So far so good. Well there is another wrinkle in this process....anaerobic activity doesnt make a whole lot of ATP at once but the speed at which it makes ATP is very great. On the other hand aerobic activity takes place in the mythocandria of the cell. THis process make I believe double the amount of ATP but it's much slower.
Here is the catch....If you take on too much insulin the cell can actually prevent the GLUT-4 from leting glucose into the cell to make ATP. THis happens if ATP production is not need it and/or if too much insulin is present. That's when insulin then floating around the body activates the adipose tissues and stores the glucose as triglycerides or fat.
So from my experience I try to not over do the insulin for this simple reason. I feel it creates too many problems as to insulin resistance or accelerated fat deposits. If you want to use more insulin I'd concentrate on using less than 10ius per shot and use it more often throughout the day to get more glucose in like that.
Here is a simple insulin cycle
After workout 10-15min inject 8-10iu of insulin type R (fast acting) followed by 75g of maltodextrin/50g protein/cup of whole milk mixed in. Done!If you wish to take some creatine now is the time.
LAter when you hungry eat a balanced meal. Now if you want to use insulin again it's fine. again 8-10iu with about 80g of carbs/50g of protein/some fat and you are done.
I hope I didnt miss anything as I wrote this from memory but I'll stand corrected if I did.
ElitePeptides
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Mutants protocol on bass killer looks pretty solid to me. I will be running that in the near future.
ElitePeptides
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I like the adjustments you made to that protocol Mike.
ElitePeptides
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Captn, I know it's been like a year since you started, but how were all of the results? Did you make some good gains?
I made some great gains, but after let my diet go to shit and got fat.
Lesson learnt, but in going to run it again in 2014
