Largest Private Employer Mooching Off Taxpayers - low wages - 15 billion in buybacks

[LAM]

I think LAM just owned himself.

how do you figure?

laze-faire policy is what brought the US the robber barons in the late 1800's until the market crash in the 1920's and it's exactly that policy that has caused the run up of 60T in private sector debt in the US since the 80's and the 2008 economic downturn.

it's been tried during 2 separate era's in US history, with the same results each time.

 

[troubador]

how do you figure?

laze-faire policy is what brought the US the robber barons in the late 1800's ...

Because according to LAM laissez faire capitalism(libertarian economic policy) is a fantasy.

 

[Swiper]

Largest Private Employer Mooching Off Taxpayers - low wages - 15 billion in b...

how do you figure?

laze-faire policy is what brought the US the robber barons in the late 1800's until the market crash in the 1920's and it's exactly that policy that has caused the run up of 60T in private sector debt in the US since the 80's and the 2008 economic downturn.

it's been tried during 2 separate era's in US history, with the same results each time.

true capitalism wouldn't have a central bank/ federal reserve. I thought you knew about Econ? so your theory about the 1920's is false. stop listening to Paul Krugman. he has you brainwashed .

 

[oufinny]

true capitalism wouldn't have a central bank/ federal reserve. I thought you knew about Econ? so your theory about the 1920's is false. stop listening to Paul Krugman. he has you brainwashed .

Before the Fed was in the bail out business, it served its purpose quite well and before the US left the gold standard, even doubly so. You are beyond retarded man. I don't think you even understand the purpose the federal reserve was originally put in place to serve but reading history, scratch that, reading period is a bit below you it seems. The world Ron Paul lives in is quite the great delusion, if you had any intelligence you would see that.

 

[oufinny]

Because according to LAM laissez faire capitalism(libertarian economic policy) is a fantasy.

It is, and with the huge shift of power the extreme wealthiest Americans/companies/industrialists you go ahead with massive de-regulation and find out how good things were in Soviet Russia compared to what nightmare we will be in; at least they had state ran industries to keep people doing something. There are 370 million people here, assume 1/3 are of working age and WANT to work, there aren't that many jobs to keep them employed now and the more you de-regulate (see 1997-2001 and 2004-2008 bubbles which did so well for labor/you the worker), the more financial engineering will take place and what few jobs are here will only be the bare essentials. I DON'T want massive regulation though I don't companies writing their own regulations like what goes on now either. Pull your collective heads from your asses, I did this about 18 months ago you can clean it off with soap, and start seeing the world for what it is. I cannot stress enough that if you see what financial de-regulation has done to our economy along with reckless fed policy that capitulates to every need of Wall Street (see Greenspan 1987 to the end and Bernanke and his great moderation that is still going on), its so very clear how fake all the value that is sustaining this bubble is. There is no real organic growth in manufacturing at all, no infrastructure expansion be it public or private due to growth of industry, its all knee jerk reaction maintenance to years of neglect. You think Apple bringing 2000 jobs back to the US will add even 1/1000 of 1 percent to GDP, keep dreaming. If you look at just a market chart of company PE ratios on EBIDTA compared to what it was even 25-30 years ago its insane; no real market produces this! You don't need to know shit to see that 1000% growth in stock market cap with 5% growth in net income, if any at all, is not real or sustainable. This is what has happened twice now!!!! Wake the fuck up already people. All of this phantom wealth that exists in the US today is just that, the moment the Fed printing press stops, its stops. You want to fix the damn problem once and for all, you are going to have to slam on the brakes so hard it will give the country whiplash and Mr. Market will undo all the fake in short order. Reagan tried to do that but even he eventually gave in and part of the economic expansion seen post 1981 was due to a massive build up in non-nuclear deterrence military spending (1 trillion dollars that did not meet any of the requirements he set out in his speech in 1980 that is so famous to counter the non-existent Soviet nuclear threat).

People just magically want shit to be better, newsflash, its not going to be for a reason and all those lobbyists on K street in DC and those at the Fed building are making sure it won't no matter what party is in power. See big Ben and his great moderation spanning now three presidential terms of two separate parties and Greenspan during Reagan/Bush/Clintonx2/GWx1.

 

[Swiper]

Before the Fed was in the bail out business, it served its purpose quite well and before the US left the gold standard, even doubly so. You are beyond retarded man. I don't think you even understand the purpose the federal reserve was originally put in place to serve but reading history, scratch that, reading period is a bit below you it seems. The world Ron Paul lives in is quite the great delusion, if you had any intelligence you would see that.

did you post this on your break?

you think you know it all don't ya? I bet you do. How's that economic degree treating you at your cashier job at the department store? lmao!

 

[Swiper]

Originally Posted by LAM
laze fare capitalism at it's best.....

Originally Posted by LAM
so you believe in a fantasy? a economic doctrine or system of economic beliefs that doesn't have one single mathematical model or formula to it's name. libertarian economic policy is laissez-faire capitalism.

I think LAM just owned himself.

yep, what a dumb ass.

 

[oufinny]

did you post this on your break?

you think you know it all don't ya? I bet you do. How's that economic degree treating you at your cashier job at the department store? lmao!

Yet again you prove your ignorance and stupidity. Lets see this project we are doing for the largest natural gas pipeline company in the US, the one that now has all Enron's assets (surely you didn't know Enron made its real money in natural gas distribution did you?) is valued at over $80million dollars. Cashier, funny we do like them to come work for us they try hard and listen unlike some who just bitch to bitch thinking it makes them smarter. You work for guys like me that are younger, smarter, and have a future. You're welcome!

 

[Swiper]

Yet again you prove your ignorance and stupidity. Lets see this project we are doing for the largest natural gas pipeline company in the US, the one that now has all Enron's assets (surely you didn't know Enron made its real money in natural gas distribution did you?) is valued at over $80million dollars. Cashier, funny we do like them to come work for us they try hard and listen unlike some who just bitch to bitch thinking it makes them smarter. You work for guys like me that are younger, smarter, and have a future. You're welcome!

ha ha you're funny. I work for no one but myself. nice try.....

 

[oufinny]

ha ha you're funny. I work for no one but myself. nice try.....

Judging by your attitude and pure know it all response tendency its probably your only option. Kudos for not torturing a whole office with your anger and inadequacy.

 

[Swiper]

Largest Private Employer Mooching Off Taxpayers - low wages - 15 billion in b...

Judging by your attitude and pure know it all response tendency its probably your only option. Kudos for not torturing a whole office with your anger and inadequacy.

no I just chose not to bust my ass for someone else so they can profit off me.

 

[LAM]

Because according to LAM laissez faire capitalism(libertarian economic policy) is a fantasy.

in regards to the markets ever being totally free from regulation, laws, government intervention, etc. they are what shape the markets it is a legal infrastructure that separates ownership from labor, creating an inherent "owner-friendly" marketplace which is based on property rights excluding communal rights.

capitalism has a natural advantage over labor, once you add in things and changes like fiat money that constantly devluaes it'self over time, how extreme inequality of income and wealth changes people (because money isn't value neutral), lobbying/special interest groups, one-way "free trade" agreements, regressive tax policy, anti-labor union movements and or "right to work for less wage" laws, de-industrialization, a capital class that is legally allowed to seek rents, financialization of economy's and a legally corrupted representative democracy it all swings in favor of the supply-side of the equation. and what do you end up with? the complete subjugation of labor by capital, and that is the US economy of today.

so yes the "regulated" version of laissez-faire capitalism brought the US the era of the robber-barons of the late 1800's and the modern day versions of them today like the Koch brothers, Apple, Wall Street, etc.

anyone that thinks that laissez-faire capitalism benefits society as a whole hasn't bothered to learn global economic history because empirical data shows the exact opposite. neo-liberal policy is nothing more than the "regulated" version of it. those that are for the "privatization" of infrastructure never even bothered to learn that initially public corporations were created in the first place to aid in capital accumulation. One of the more important reasons for their creation was the need to reduce costs to the private sector by means of government provision of infrastructure.

the only sustainable economy's combine the two (public and private sector ownership) in some manner, only the un-educated radicals (or modern day robber-baron's) spout the rhetoric of it having to be "one or the other", capitalism or socialism, etc.

 

[Little Wing]

some people are not interested in benefiting society as a whole... unless you consider slaves existing on crumbs a benefit.

 

[troubador]

some people are not interested in benefiting society as a whole... unless you consider slaves existing on crumbs a benefit.

What great civilization rose without it?

 

[LAM]

What great civilization rose without it?

and which one didn't collapse?

 

[oufinny]

and which one didn't collapse?

Exactly. It's easy to point the finger but when most libertarians are pushed to show where that political/economic/financial system worked you here nothing. Most import people forget the scale of the US economy often, we may not have 1.3 billion people here but we still magically produced the largest GDP (for now). You can't just do a 180 and go to a system that has never shown to work or that won't cause massive unrest/riots/revolution type activity. That will happen on its own, don't force it faster than it has to happen.

 

[LAM]

Exactly. It's easy to point the finger but when most libertarians are pushed to show where that political/economic/financial system worked you here nothing. Most import people forget the scale of the US economy often, we may not have 1.3 billion people here but we still magically produced the largest GDP (for now).

GDP doesn't mean squat anymore. take away the fake wealth created by the US financial sector from the 80's and adjust for inflation and it's not impressive, it's all debt based.

real wealth can only be created with the manufacturing and/or production of commodities.

 

[troubador]

and which one didn't collapse?

Do think I was making an argument?

 

[Swiper]

Exactly. It's easy to point the finger but when most libertarians are pushed to show where that political/economic/financial system worked you here nothing. Most import people forget the scale of the US economy often, we may not have 1.3 billion people here but we still magically produced the largest GDP (for now). You can't just do a 180 and go to a system that has never shown to work or that won't cause massive unrest/riots/revolution type activity. That will happen on its own, don't force it faster than it has to happen.

Of course it had never been used. do you actually think any govt is willing to give up that much power? And no it all can't be implemented at once. no one has even said that. It'll take decades, or when we collapse in about 30 years or so it can happen more rapidly.

we all know Keynesian econ has been tried and is a complete failure. so why keep at it? why not try something different?

 

[Zaphod]

Of course it had never been used. do you actually think any govt is willing to give up that much power? And no it all can't be implemented at once. no one has even said that. It'll take decades, or when we collapse in about 30 years or so it can happen more rapidly.

we all know Keynesian econ has been tried and is a complete failure. so why keep at it? why not try something different?

Collapse in 30 years? More like three years or less.

 

[Swiper]

Collapse in 30 years? More like three years or less.

i think there will be another recession in 3 years or so, but i think about 30 years for a total collapse. what's really going to be a problem is when they try to scale back QE. this phony recovery is all because of it. I don't think they'll ever stop quantitative easing. It'll go on for many many years until there's a currency crisis and then kaboom, welcome the the end of the US as we know it.




hey! look we exchanged post without calling each other names!

 

[oufinny]

i think there will be another recession in 3 years or so, but i think about 30 years for a total collapse. what's really going to be a problem is when they try to scale back QE. this phony recovery is all because of it. I don't think they'll ever stop quantitative easing. It'll go on for many many years until there's a currency crisis and then kaboom, welcome the the end of the US as we know it.




hey! look we exchanged post without calling each other names!

Funny we all can agree on that, the data overwhelmingly has shown that QE and low rates lead to massive financial engineering. Once you raise rates all the constant re-financing and wait companies do that are far over leveraged will come crashing down; no real market will allow leverage like what is seen now.

 

[LAM]

Of course it had never been used. do you actually think any govt is willing to give up that much power? And no it all can't be implemented at once. no one has even said that. It'll take decades, or when we collapse in about 30 years or so it can happen more rapidly.

we all know Keynesian econ has been tried and is a complete failure. so why keep at it? why not try something different?

#1` - Keynesian principles are mostly used during recession recoveries because there is no model for recession recovery under a capitalist based economy.

#2 - Keynesian economics has never been used as a economic model by any country, so once again your wrong. I'm not saying it would work as an economic model but it's never been done.

#3 - How does laissez-faire capitalism not result in the formation of an oligarchy, plutocracy, etc. if money isn't value neutral and lobbying allows for public sector government officials to be legally bought?

#4 - the concentration of wealth decreases aggregate demand for goods and services how does laissez-faire capitalism solve this problem?

#5 - how is labor ever not completely subjugated under laissez-faire capitalism?

#6 - how does laissez-faire capitalism prevent the capitalist class from seeking rents?

 

[LAM]

exactly the response I expected Swiper, you got nothing. laissez-faire capitalism only makes things worst for the majority of workers not better. anyone that thinks laissez-faire capitalism benefits labor needs a lobotomy because there is no real world evidence or even theory that would support such a statement..

 

[maniclion]

some people are not interested in benefiting society as a whole... unless you consider slaves existing on crumbs a benefit.

There are quite a few, but the hardest battle is getting those who could careless to pay attention and stop ignoring these facts....

 

[Swiper]

#1` - Keynesian principles are mostly used during recession recoveries because there is no model for recession recovery under a capitalist based economy.

#2 - Keynesian economics has never been used as a economic model by any country, so once again your wrong. I'm not saying it would work as an economic model but it's never been done.

#3 - How does laissez-faire capitalism not result in the formation of an oligarchy, plutocracy, etc. if money isn't value neutral and lobbying allows for public sector government officials to be legally bought?Property rights. Money would be gold and silver, no fiat money. no federal reserve. The politicians are corrupt so the people whom elect them most endorse that. so they'll suffer the consequences of their vote.

#4 - the concentration of wealth decreases aggregate demand for goods and services how does laissez-faire capitalism solve this problem? this question is misleading. wealth doesn't decrease demand for goods and services. actually the opposite.

#5 - how is labor ever not completely subjugated under laissez-faire capitalism? Labor would be controlled by the worker. they make choices in life as to what they do for a living.

#6 - how does laissez-faire capitalism prevent the capitalist class from seeking rents? refer to answer in question #3, last sentence

In blue ^^^

 

[oufinny]

There was a federal reserve that worked fine on the gold standard; you're anti the current fed but if you look back to what it did historically under the leadership of some smart fiscal discipline, you may think twice than to accept the blanket libertarian idea to abolish the fed.

 

[oufinny]

There are quite a few, but the hardest battle is getting those who could careless to pay attention and stop ignoring these facts....

There is no trust in the Presidency or the legislature at all; Bush and Barry especially destroyed what integrity was left. It's going to take a lot and one hell of a good salesman to get the real changes that are needed to save this nation and as it stands now, that will never happen.

 

[LAM]

There was a federal reserve that worked fine on the gold standard; you're anti the current fed but if you look back to what it did historically under the leadership of some smart fiscal discipline, you may think twice than to accept the blanket libertarian idea to abolish the fed.

it worked much better, there was still inflation and the loss of purchasing power on the USD. but with Glass-Stegall, etc. in place there were no major financial collapses or recessions for 40 years until the USD went fiat and the de-regulation of the US financial sector in the 80's.

all country's have central banks, the difference is who controls them and what is their agenda. obviously any country under control of the global federal reserve system isn't sovereign in reality.

the libertarians don't really understand econ, too much ideology and not enough real world economics. take example going back to gold. at most the US has 500B in reserves how does that work exactly with an economy of 15-16Trillion? it doesn't.

how do you increase the money supply when you can't extract enough gold at the same rate?

 

[oufinny]

it worked much better, there was still inflation and the loss of purchasing power on the USD. but with Glass-Stegall, etc. in place there were no major financial collapses or recessions for 40 years until the USD went fiat and the de-regulation of the US financial sector in the 80's.

all country's have central banks, the difference is who controls them and what is their agenda. obviously any country under control of the global federal reserve system isn't sovereign in reality.

the libertarians don't really understand econ, too much ideology and not enough real world economics. take example going back to gold. at most the US has 500B in reserves how does that work exactly with an economy of 15-16Trillion? it doesn't.

how do you increase the money supply when you can't extract enough gold at the same rate?

Exactly, and the Feds balance sheet has ballooned to monstrous proportions since the late 1990s thanks to Alan and his even
More inept buddy Ben.