Avant
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1-ad,4-ad Or 1-test What Stacks Are Best
- Thread starter Molehonea
- Start date
Originally posted by Prince
as well as who is completely unbiased in their supplement opinions!
This is particularly important. Which is why I try to stick to proviing info on the active ingredients rather than the brand.
However, when significant differences exist (e.g. here, modality) this should be pointed out, and the science explained.
Very true, however, active ingredients is not the end all be all. The delivery system must also be of high quality. You can have tons of active ingredient that never gets absorbed, which does no good for anyone (like the anabolic steroid Andriol).
(And on a personal note...although you may think so, I really am not biased)
I am biased. I admit it. Though I do my best to take my bias out of the equation when I am discussing supplements, actives, delivery systems, science, and what not, which I can do pretty well.
It also makes it easy when every product Avant makes leads the pack.
It also makes it easy when every product Avant makes leads the pack.
You pretty much ONLY discuss Avant products. I don't think I ever hear you praise any other company (although I may be wrong, but it seems that way).
But the comment about Avant supps always leading the pack simply is not true TP.
That's ridiculous. Search the supps forum, which you moderate. I never bring up Avant, unless it is asked about.
Mostly, I discuss prohormones, which Avant is no longer in the business of selling.
Frequently I discuss things like Ephedra, creatine, yohimbine, and various types of protein.
Avant is not currently in the market on any of this.
Companies I generally respect? Ergopharm, Molecular, 1Fast400 products, SAN to a lesser degree, Optimum nutrition, proteincustomizer. I frequently discuss and recommend all/most of these.
When a particular product is worth mentioning, I'll do so as well.
Most of the time I discuss PHs (which is to me the most interesting topic and also most discussed) I do not discuss brands.
As to your disagreement with my last statement, while I said it in half-jest, if you go by user feedback, generally on any number of boards, you will see that I am in fact correct.
1) One/One+ (no longer sold) -- most people regard it as the most effective PH product ever made. In this thread alone, if you disregard your and my statement, we have one opinion stating VPX and Avant are the same, but he disliked the gels, everyone else said Avant. NUFF SAID.
2) LipoDerm Y -- an unmatched topical fat mobilzer. Been on the market for years and has only ONE legitimate competitive product which is more expensive, and generally considered less effective.
3) FL7 -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET.
4) Ab-Solved -- 3) FL7 -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET, and its too new to tell.
5) Anorect-In -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET.
6) Leptigen/Leptigen II -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET.
So tell me where was I wrong?
And on top of all this. Avant Labs is an IM site sponsor.
(DG smiles and looks at his home made 1t and 4ad!!)
Transdermal is not approved as a drug delivery system!
Well, I dont know why or what the motivation was. Obviously, if you are following PHs you know that there is a bill before congress to ban ALL prohormone products.
Certainly there are potential sides depending on which prohormone you use.
Avant's One was no more likely to cause a side effect than any other 1-testosterone product.
Certainly there are potential sides depending on which prohormone you use.
Avant's One was no more likely to cause a side effect than any other 1-testosterone product.
Originally posted by Twin Peak
That's ridiculous. Search the supps forum, which you moderate. I never bring up Avant, unless it is asked about.
I GUESS I JUST SEE THE AVANT TESTING SUBJECTS THREADS AND IT MAKES IT SEEM THAT YOU ARE ALWAYS TALKING AVANT...AND...
Mostly, I discuss prohormones, which Avant is no longer in the business of selling.
...YOU DO MOSTLY DISCUSS PHs AND HAVE A VERY STRONG BIAS TOWARD AVANT...HOWEVER...
Frequently I discuss things like Ephedra, creatine, yohimbine, and various types of protein.
...I DID SAY THAT I MAY BE WRONG, AND I AM SURE YOU DO DISCUSS OTHER SUPPS ON OCCASSION.
Avant is not currently in the market on any of this.
Companies I generally respect? Ergopharm, Molecular, 1Fast400 products, SAN to a lesser degree, Optimum nutrition, proteincustomizer. I frequently discuss and recommend all/most of these.
OK
When a particular product is worth mentioning, I'll do so as well.
OK
Most of the time I discuss PHs (which is to me the most interesting topic and also most discussed) I do not discuss brands.
WELL, YOU AWAYS MENTION AVANT ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY WHEN TALK OF "WHICH IS BEST" IS BROUGHT UP. YOU BARELY MAKE ROOM FOR ANY OTHERS.
As to your disagreement with my last statement, while I said it in half-jest, if you go by user feedback, generally on any number of boards, you will see that I am in fact correct.
PERHAPS ON THE BOARDS YOU FREQUENT, BUT NOT THOSE THAT I DO. I MOD ON 3 SITES AND BARELY EVER HEAR MENTION OF AVANT, EXCEPT ON THIS ONE. PLUS, I GET FEEDBACK FROM MANY RETAILERS AND BIG WHOLESALERS IN THE INDUSTRY, AS WELL AS MY CLIENTS, AS WELL AS EMAILS FOR MY Q & A COLUMN AND I MUST SAY THAT VPX GETS THE MOST POSITIVE FEEDBACK.
1) One/One+ (no longer sold) -- most people regard it as the most effective PH product ever made. In this thread alone, if you disregard your and my statement, we have one opinion stating VPX and Avant are the same, but he disliked the gels, everyone else said Avant. NUFF SAID.
THAT IS JUST THIS THREAD.
2) LipoDerm Y -- an unmatched topical fat mobilzer. Been on the market for years and has only ONE legitimate competitive product which is more expensive, and generally considered less effective.
OTHERS THAT WERE JUST AS EFECTIVE ARE NO LONGER AROUND...LIPOBURN BEING ONE OF THEM. BUT YES, I AGREE THAT THIS IS A GOOD PRODUCT.
3) FL7 -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET.
WELL, OF COURSE ITS BEST IN THIS CATAGORY IF NOBODY ELSE IS SELLING A LIKE PRODUCT.
4) Ab-Solved -- 3) FL7 -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET, and its too new to tell.
AGAIN...
5) Anorect-In -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET.
AGAIN...
6) Leptigen/Leptigen II -- NO COMPARABLE PRODUCT ON THE MARKET.
AGAIN...
So tell me where was I wrong?
SO WHERE YOU ARE WRONG IS SAYING THAT EVERY PRODUCT AVANT MAKES IS LEADING THE PACK, BECAUSE ITS EASY TO LEAD IN A CATAGORY THAT YOU ARE THE ONLY PLAYER.
And on top of all this. Avant Labs is an IM site sponsor.
I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT!
Ok, i been watching this thread develop for a little while now, and it's time to play devil's advocate.
Ok, firstly, Eric, you say TP only seems to talk about Avant - which he obviously is going to because he has several successful personal testimonials with their products, and has since become a legal and company representative. However, i distinctly recall that before the Avant buzz came onto this site, you only seemed to mention VPX (and occasionally SAN i recall). Does that not make you somewhat of a hypocrite in this regard?
Also, you say you recieve "FEEDBACK FROM MANY RETAILERS AND BIG WHOLESALERS IN THE INDUSTRY, AS WELL AS MY CLIENTS, AS WELL AS EMAILS FOR MY Q & A COLUMN AND I MUST SAY THAT VPX GETS THE MOST POSITIVE FEEDBACK." Well, since Avant currently only market over the internet, would this not be expected? VPX retail in stores, magazines and over the net. Currently Avant only retail via the internet. I expect this will change once/if they go "mainstream" - wouldn't you?
You also say "WELL, OF COURSE ITS BEST IN THIS CATAGORY IF NOBODY ELSE IS SELLING A LIKE PRODUCT." Doesn't that sorta emphasize TP's point about leading the pack?
Does it not mean they are the most innovative company around currently?
Does that make your statement: "But the comment about Avant supps always leading the pack simply is not true TP" completely wrong?
Have you not just completely gone against what you original said there?
Now, i'm not taking sides here, because i KNOW that TP is biased. How do i know? Because he seems to say it everytime he refers to Avant, so you gotta respect his honesty.
My own personal opinion, is that Avant is kind of an "underground" company right now. The people who get results with their products never seem to shut up about the company. Any other company when people get results from their products, get props and that's about it, but the way i see it right now, if Avant were to go out of business tomorrow, a year or two down the line, people would still be discussing the company as almost legendary or mythical, and if you weren't part of the fairytale, you missed out.
Now, that is an extreme thing to say, but as far as innovation goes, i have never heard of a company develop products (PH/PS aside) the type of products that Avant develops. The typical company makes creatine, glutamine, protein (or at least buys off someone else and packages it in their own labels) etc...
But for a company to try and manipulate appetite, cortisol (besides PS that you harp on about), leptin, specific fat receptors (besides LipoBurn), local cortisol release, AMPK and even to effect nutrient partitioning, is a breath of fresh air to the industy in my opinion. It's pretty much unheard of.
Ok, firstly, Eric, you say TP only seems to talk about Avant - which he obviously is going to because he has several successful personal testimonials with their products, and has since become a legal and company representative. However, i distinctly recall that before the Avant buzz came onto this site, you only seemed to mention VPX (and occasionally SAN i recall). Does that not make you somewhat of a hypocrite in this regard?
Also, you say you recieve "FEEDBACK FROM MANY RETAILERS AND BIG WHOLESALERS IN THE INDUSTRY, AS WELL AS MY CLIENTS, AS WELL AS EMAILS FOR MY Q & A COLUMN AND I MUST SAY THAT VPX GETS THE MOST POSITIVE FEEDBACK." Well, since Avant currently only market over the internet, would this not be expected? VPX retail in stores, magazines and over the net. Currently Avant only retail via the internet. I expect this will change once/if they go "mainstream" - wouldn't you?
You also say "WELL, OF COURSE ITS BEST IN THIS CATAGORY IF NOBODY ELSE IS SELLING A LIKE PRODUCT." Doesn't that sorta emphasize TP's point about leading the pack?
Does it not mean they are the most innovative company around currently?
Does that make your statement: "But the comment about Avant supps always leading the pack simply is not true TP" completely wrong?
Have you not just completely gone against what you original said there?
Now, i'm not taking sides here, because i KNOW that TP is biased. How do i know? Because he seems to say it everytime he refers to Avant, so you gotta respect his honesty.
My own personal opinion, is that Avant is kind of an "underground" company right now. The people who get results with their products never seem to shut up about the company. Any other company when people get results from their products, get props and that's about it, but the way i see it right now, if Avant were to go out of business tomorrow, a year or two down the line, people would still be discussing the company as almost legendary or mythical, and if you weren't part of the fairytale, you missed out.
Now, that is an extreme thing to say, but as far as innovation goes, i have never heard of a company develop products (PH/PS aside) the type of products that Avant develops. The typical company makes creatine, glutamine, protein (or at least buys off someone else and packages it in their own labels) etc...
But for a company to try and manipulate appetite, cortisol (besides PS that you harp on about), leptin, specific fat receptors (besides LipoBurn), local cortisol release, AMPK and even to effect nutrient partitioning, is a breath of fresh air to the industy in my opinion. It's pretty much unheard of.
Also, while my train of thought is still on the rails, i also appreciate how, unlike most companies who try and sell you their "magic pill", Avant expect you to know about sensible training and diet to make the most out of their products.
They go say, "this will fix all your problems without you moving a finger". They supply products which can help in various areas of diet and training and don't try and convince people otherwise.
They go say, "this will fix all your problems without you moving a finger". They supply products which can help in various areas of diet and training and don't try and convince people otherwise.
You make many excellent points TCD. One of the reasons I have always respected VPX, SAN, SYNTRAX, and a couple of others is that they very often INNOVATE products, rather than do what most do, which is to COPYCAT products. I do disagree when you say that I only mention VPX and SAN, which is totally and completely false b/c I promote many more companies than that...SYNTRAX, ALL THE WHEY, AST, CHAMPION, MUSCLELINK, YATES APPROVED, BIOTEST, etc. But that is really not important.
You are also right in that Avant is kind of underground and not widely available. This would certainly skew the results of feedback that I hear from retailers, but not from fitness boards, clients, and wholesalers.
Mainly, the discussion between TP and I is focused on PHs, and this is the area that I am mainly talking about. I openly admitted that Avant is one of the top (or was) producers of effective PHs several times in this thread. If anyone told me they were going to use Avant PHs I wouldn't blink an eye. All I am saying is that I feel that VPX liposomals are the best of the PHs and what I have seen/heard is the base of my claim (along with heavy discussions with Jack Owoc and several other liposomal experts). But again, this is not to take anything away from Avant, b/c their PHs also generate amazing feedback!
As to their other products, I have heard mixed feedback. Some comparing them to drugs and others shrugging them off. I have never personally used any of their products, but I think I'm going to give their fat burners a try so I can have more personal knowledge on them. Since I am in a cutting phase at the moment I am going to look into a couple of their products.
Well, that is enough for now...
You are also right in that Avant is kind of underground and not widely available. This would certainly skew the results of feedback that I hear from retailers, but not from fitness boards, clients, and wholesalers.
Mainly, the discussion between TP and I is focused on PHs, and this is the area that I am mainly talking about. I openly admitted that Avant is one of the top (or was) producers of effective PHs several times in this thread. If anyone told me they were going to use Avant PHs I wouldn't blink an eye. All I am saying is that I feel that VPX liposomals are the best of the PHs and what I have seen/heard is the base of my claim (along with heavy discussions with Jack Owoc and several other liposomal experts). But again, this is not to take anything away from Avant, b/c their PHs also generate amazing feedback!
As to their other products, I have heard mixed feedback. Some comparing them to drugs and others shrugging them off. I have never personally used any of their products, but I think I'm going to give their fat burners a try so I can have more personal knowledge on them. Since I am in a cutting phase at the moment I am going to look into a couple of their products.
Well, that is enough for now...
No you do not. But you DO need a proper diet and sensible training program. You are going to use power, rep range, shock I believe, so you are covered with training, but you must be eating well too. Lots of good protein and clean carbs as well as healthy fats will help you get the most out of prohormones, no matter which ones you use.
Well, it all depends on the "type" of supplement we are talking about. You can see that I started a thread called...An Excellent New Whey...to promote Syntrax. Started another one about SANs V-12. I promoted VPXs Micellean, Plasma Expandor, Clenbutrx, and their PHs long long before I ever became affiliated with them...which by the way IS NOT OFFICIAL AS OF YET. DETAILS ARE STILL BEING WORKED OUT.
I believe VPX to be OVERALL the best supplement company out there, but will continue to speak about the several other quality companies in the field.
I do not like Sann's ph, but that is just my opinion. I have heard good things about Biotest's 4-adec. Ergopharm puts out Androdiol select which is 300mg per capsule. The only thing I do not like about this product is that you have to take 900-1200mg per day to see results due to the poor oral bioavailablity of oral 4-ad. IMHO I would stack 1-ad with Paradeca. I did this stack and put on 17lbs and kept 14. That is my most weight gain to date with PH's. I took the 1-ad @ 600mg per day and the Paradeca(4-ad)@ 9cc per day.
Originally posted by gopro
Actually I'd just like to recommend that he take Syngex I or 1-Test cyp and 4-Test cyp, but that might sound biased....
I would have done that as well, but I have grown tired of all the VPX wars.
