advice needed - getting weaker

[monkeyd]

Hi guys,
I'm on about the 6th week/cycle of my current workout. For about the first 4 weeks I was doing M/W/F split, chest/tris/abs, back/bis/cardio, shoulders/legs/abs. Then for the last few cycles, I went to a 1 day on, 2 day off 9 day cycle instead, to see if the extra recovery time would help my gains (I think it has?).

Anyway, I have noticed a decline in strength over the last 3 workouts or so, particularly with my biceps. I believe my diet is in order: (go a few days back for more indicative examples of my regular diet).

http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=monkeyd

, I'm 6'2" 75kg and eat around 3200cal workout days, 2800 or so on off days.

My usual bicep routine would be (after my back exercises (which finish with close grip lat pulldowns):
sitting alternating dbell curls 3 x 6-8
concentration curls 3 x 6-8
preacher curls 3 x 6-8

BUT, I have not really been doing the preacher curls for the last few weeks because I figured I was doing too much volume. Still there has been a decline. I usually go to failure every time, but we're talking 9 days before the next bicep workout...

One possibility is that I have really been working on my form for all my exercises and as a result had to lower weights on a few, and I also reduced rests between sets... so it could be the extra form/reduced recovery time meaning I'm knackered by the time I get to biceps. Still, I'm wondering if I'm still doing too much volume, and how often I should be going to failure.

anyway, anyone have any advice or ideas?

 

[LAM]

when is the last time you took a week off from training ?

 

[monkeyd]

Just before I started the current workout, I took a full week off.

So that is around 6-7 weeks ago.

I was planning to take another off after the 8th week/cycle of the current workout.... maybe going back to a M/W/F split for the last 2 cycles. Then I was thinking about doing a HIT full body workout on a 1 day on 2 day off basis for a little while.

 

[monkeyd]

I actually have complete logs of all workouts in the current 8 cycle block if that would help? (Have to go home before I can post it though).

 

[LAM]

well if you are increasing your weights on your back routine that will surely effect the amount of work that you can perform for biceps. I would train biceps on a different day...

 

[monkeyd]

heh, well, actually the number of reps on the back workouts have been going down as well, at least, except for my starting exercise which has increased in weight - the bent one arm dbell row.

fyi, it usually goes:

Bent one arm row: 3 x 8 @ 24kg

Incline Reverse Flyes: 3 x 8 @ 7kg

Wide grip lat pulldown: 3 x 8 @ 55kg

Straight arm lat pulldown: 3 x 8 @ 25kg

Close grip lat pulldown 3 x 8 @ 60kg

then biceps

 

[redicuscloverus]

So you're saying you take 9 days from one end of a cycle to the other? So if you work your biceps, it will be another 9 days before they get worked out again?

Forgive me if thats a silly question, I just couldn't figure it out. If thats the case, I haven't really read of too many cycles like that or how effective they are but I would personlly prefer to be working each muscle group with a little more frequency!

I definately think that working on your form and technique wouldn't have helped either! I know that when I started trying to perfect the actual action of even biceps curls, I had to use less weight. Now I always debate if it is better to lift less weight with good technique or more weight with bad technique; i can do quite a bit more if i'm sloppy

Most people seem to be right into absolute pain and punishment on themselves with unswerving regularity; but if you are not currently at a very high level with your bodybuilding I'm a big believer in shock tactics...i'm sure there's a proper name for that. Ie: you could work your arms and chest one day, lats, back, thighs another then jump straight back into arms and chest the next day, do something else, then ANOTHER day of arms and chest before not touching them for maybe even longer than a week and a half. You will be hurting like hell, but I noticed more change like this. When you have more than recovered the idea is to jump back into a more sensible training routine for a while and upping your weight before doing it again.

Of course, I might just be crazy.

 

[monkeyd]

sure, 9 days before they are specifically targetted (and blasted) again, but bear in mind they do see some action so to speak every workout just from the compound exercises etc.

 

[monkeyd]

Ideally I would be doing a M/W/F split but it's a little hard right now what with my thesis work. Plus I read some mike mentzer stuff and figured a little extra recovery time might be good.

I hear what you're saying about shock tactics, but just intuitively I feel I shock enough with the occasional drop set and going to failure all the time