An average sized wolf vs. an average sized man

[AKIRA]

When I first moved into my 2 roommate's place, they had this debate going on. Who would win in a fight between a man and a wolf. Both were on opposite ends. Many, many elements came up. So I am graduating this topic to IM, because when you think about this, its a simple subject made complicated.

First off, its 1 vs 1. The man has no partners, the wolf has no pack.
No weapons.
It is to the death. No escaping.
It is in a safe environment. The climate nor surroundings have NO influence of the fight.

Points that came up during our discussion:
-Panic. "The man would prolly panic." Not necessarily. Its an average man, not a sick one. This man is not dumb, but not a genius. He knows going in, its either him or the wolf. He knows he must fight or die. The wolf wont panic. It relies on instinct and andrenaline. The man has adrenaline too, only the difference is intelligence.

-Weapons. "The man cant win without a knife" Why? The wolf will bite and grab and pull and tear, but thats it. Once the wolf's jaw is in use, its taken up. The man has more natural weapons thanks to his thumbs and elbow flexion. Also, wolves hunt in packs. How good are they alone?

-Agility. "The wolf will grab the neck." True. However this man isnt dumb and knows he can die. Its safe to say he knows how he can die and defend against it. But the wolf is more agile and will probably know how to get the neck better than the man can defend it naturally. With the man's more natural weapons, he could defend and grab the wolf's neck. Not to mention, a man can fight off his back.

-Size. This is a tricky one. Looking up the average size of a wolf came up around a ~120lb mark. Finding an average man put his slightly heavier. As far as muscle type and placement goes, no one knows.

-Killing Instinct. Wolf has the advantage here. However, with the given circumstances, does it matter since were this far?


I brought this up in classrooms and what I found that people that didnt even give it a moment's thought said "Wolf." Whereas people who took a moment and thought about it, they said "Man."

Vote your answer and explain why if it hasnt already been detailed.

 

[KelJu]

The average bite pressure for a wolf is 600 psi. A German Shepard is the most popular and commonly used police assist attack dog. It's bite pressure is only 200 psi. almost 99% of the time, the German Shepard whoops ass over various criminal assailants who often times have weapons.

A wolf's bite can break bones and rip connective tissues. A wolf is a natural born killer and predator with instinctual fighting abilities.

A human without a weapon is a wet paper sack. Only way I see a human beating a wolf is if that human has a lot of experience fighting wolves, and has trained for it. Which brings our only natural weapon into play: out brains.

 

[DOMS]

No weapons? The man dies every time.

 

[tucker01]

The average bite pressure for a wolf is 600 psi. A German Shepard is the most popular and commonly used police assist attack dog. It's bite pressure is only 200 psi. almost 99% of the time, the German Shepard whoops ass over various criminal assailants who often times have weapons.

A wolf's bite can break bones and rip connective tissues. A wolf is a natural born killer and predator with instinctual fighting abilities.

A human without a weapon is a wet paper sack. Only way I see a human beating a wolf is if that human has a lot of experience fighting wolves, and has trained for it. Which brings our only natural weapon into play: out brains.

What he said.

It amazes me how people think physically they are so superior then animals. And here I thought we were mentally superior, maybe I should rethink that

 

[I Are Baboon]

One bite from the wolf anywhere on the man's body would inflict so much pain that the man would be rendered useless. The man would need both arms and both legs to have any shot at winning, and a single good bite from the wolf would take out one of those appendages. I don't think gouging the wolf's eye would have any impact. Your only chance would be to choke the wolf out, and good luck with that.

 

[I Are Baboon]

This thread needs a picture of a wolf t-shirt.

 

[bio-chem]

One bite from the wolf anywhere on the man's body would inflict so much pain that the man would be rendered useless. The man would need both arms and both legs to have any shot at winning, and a single good bite from the wolf would take out one of those appendages. I don't think gouging the wolf's eye would have any impact. Your only chance would be to choke the wolf out, and good luck with that.

this right here. +1

I'm a 180lb man 6'1" of above average strength. I've wrestled big dogs that were completely friendly to me and I had a hard time getting the neck to choke the dog. and this was a dog that was not biting to do damage.

under the conditions stated I don't see a scenario where an average man of average intelligence wins against an average wolf

 

[Hoglander]

If you could trick the wolf into biting your arm off you could use the jagged protruding bone as weapon!

 

[FMJ]

I vote for the wolf as well. I have a measly 65 pound german shepherd and a game of tug o war will cleary show the strength to size ratio grealty yeilds advantage to the animal. As for a choke out, the necks are so muscular and agile, they'll get out of most any head lock and if they can't, they'll start gouging your flesh with thier rear claws. Dogs (and I assume wolves) also have a much greater tolerance for pain so you may hurt the wolf but it will not deter, but hurt the human, confidence is lost, fear grips the mind, mistakes are made, human is then converted to a meal.

 

[AKIRA]

Are you guys implying that a wolf only has 1 weapon? Say you are able to avoid your neck getting bit and it has your arm. With bite pressure being discussed (it wasnt before so good info) does the bite go all the way through like scissors to a sheet of paper? Of is there tugging, adjustment, twisted, the whole sha-bang. While that arm is being bit, what are the other limbs doing? Pulling back making the tear worse? Nah, I dont think so.

This is a WHAT IF topic, but WHAT IF answers cant apply. If they did, then its possible that the man can win.

IanDainel spits out the usual banter when it comes to nature vs. man. However, this 'event' has never been done on camera nor would it. I am sure its happened, but no one really knows cuz no one really witnessed it.

I think it is best to put yourself in the same situation as it is harder to just submit to this. In fact, you could say you were defending something of value like, say, your child, your family, your car, whatever is valuable. Are you going to say: Oh well fuck it. I am dead. Or are you going to try? What would you do?

Videos that I have seen of dogs attacking people are usually people that are pathetic, weak, and well basically, didnt know it was coming. They had no way to plan for this. Man innately could and would whereas the wolf is just getting food or defending itself.

 

[AKIRA]

I vote for the wolf as well. I have a measly 65 pound german shepherd and a game of tug o war will cleary show the strength to size ratio grealty yeilds advantage to the animal. As for a choke out, the necks are so muscular and agile, they'll get out of most any head lock and if they can't, they'll start gouging your flesh with thier rear claws. Dogs (and I assume wolves) also have a much greater tolerance for pain so you may hurt the wolf but it will not deter, but hurt the human, confidence is lost, fear grips the mind, mistakes are made, human is then converted to a meal.

Their claws are mostly for digging. Theyd help, like in a game of tug n war, but rolling around? I dont know.

 

[AKIRA]

this right here. +1

I'm a 180lb man 6'1" of above average strength. I've wrestled big dogs that were completely friendly to me and I had a hard time getting the neck to choke the dog. and this was a dog that was not biting to do damage.

under the conditions stated I don't see a scenario where an average man of average intelligence wins against an average wolf

To each his own. Ive done it too and the neck was easy to grab and even easier to hold because of the hair. There are no sweat glands so limited chance of slippage.

 

[AKIRA]

One bite from the wolf anywhere on the man's body would inflict so much pain that the man would be rendered useless. The man would need both arms and both legs to have any shot at winning, and a single good bite from the wolf would take out one of those appendages. I don't think gouging the wolf's eye would have any impact. Your only chance would be to choke the wolf out, and good luck with that.

Agreed. Id say you would need 2 of a pair, but it depends on the damage.

How good is the aim of a wolf? It could miss and give man a chance to strike. In fact, I think this is man's biggest chance. However, if he didnt miss, I dont know if pain would be that severe. Not doubting you, I just really dont know, Ive not been bitten by a wolf. I do know that Ive been pretty angry before and not felt bones broken. I can safely assume that if he had enough anxiety, adrenaline, anger, knowing that this was do or die, the man may not feel as much as youd think. Especially if afferent nerves are cut and not the efferent.

 

[AKIRA]

The average bite pressure for a wolf is 600 psi. A German Shepard is the most popular and commonly used police assist attack dog. It's bite pressure is only 200 psi. almost 99% of the time, the German Shepard whoops ass over various criminal assailants who often times have weapons.

A wolf's bite can break bones and rip connective tissues. A wolf is a natural born killer and predator with instinctual fighting abilities.

A human without a weapon is a wet paper sack. Only way I see a human beating a wolf is if that human has a lot of experience fighting wolves, and has trained for it. Which brings our only natural weapon into play: out brains.

A quick search on the internet came up with a 400psi rating. However, I dont know how this would work in a battle. I do know that that closer you keep to the bite, if it lands, meaning you dont like the wolf create distance from the bite, will prevent tearing. Unless the bite cuts all the way through, you could probably grab the neck while the forearm would be...bait?

The neck is a clear cut winner for both, but the mobility in the wolf's legs are limited. How much abduction/adduction can they perform? Might be easy to break them..


I am glad you guys are thinking about this.

 

[FMJ]

Their claws are mostly for digging. Theyd help, like in a game of tug n war, but rolling around? I dont know.

Perhaps... but I'm just sugesting what I've seen my dog do. When I hold her down on her back (playing of course) she kicks with her hind paws. She has already scratched me enough to bleed and she was just playing around. All the while tring to bite my hands and wrists.. not in one spot.. but in a variety of places. As if she was trying to get me to move them to a vulnerable place. She's definitly testing me while wrestling me at the same time. A wolf, desperate enough to eat me or defend itself from me, would still be using it's brain in an attempt to gain advantage. I know it's not in the conginitive way we would do it but it's still a "smart" animal.

 

[AKIRA]

Perhaps... but I'm just sugesting what I've seen my dog do. When I hold her down on her back (playing of course) she kicks with her hind paws. She has already scratched me enough to bleed and she was just playing around. All the while tring to bite my hands and wrists.. not in one spot.. but in a variety of places. As if she was trying to get me to move them to a vulnerable place. She's definitly testing me while wrestling me at the same time. A wolf, desperate enough to eat me or defend itself from me, would still be using it's brain in an attempt to gain advantage. I know it's not in the conginitive way we would do it but it's still a "smart" animal.

Ahhh, I see your example now. Interesting point. Just as a man would, I thin the wolf would fight off its back only if it had to and do what it could to regain position.

Dont forget man's other weapons, his fingers. Not sure if it would do much, but if you can gouge out an eye, split the nose, or tear an ear (every dog Ive done that too whimpers) its 3 things a man can grab thanks to thumbs that a wolf cannot.

The man may be bit multiple times, but if he can blind it or tear its nose off, the wolf maybe preoccupied with that while the man can make its move.

 

[Little Wing]

if you have ever read anything about wolves attacking men, and yes lone wolves, you will find out wolves like to get behind you and knock you on the ground. they also will do as much damage to your hands and feet as they can to "unarm" you. they are smart and they kill to survive.

no one has voted man yet.

 

[maniclion]

My small 35lb dog bit me accidentally on the ankle when I tried to break him and his brother up from fighting. He latched on to my achilles and the inner ball of the ankle and sunk his teeth in.....I had to limp directly after it hurt so bad. I can only imagine what a wolf would to a mans limbs especially at the joints. My neighbor had a pet coyote he'd raised after it got hit by a car. He would throw a thick bone to it and all you heard was crack, crack, crack as it tore in to get the marrow....

I give huge odds to the wolf winning every time but if the man were smart he would wrap his shirt or jacket around his arm, lure the dog to lunge at that and then kick it in the nuts....from there the man can kick it in the throat, try to tie the shirt like a gag, and then wail on the wolfs head with kicks until he knocks it out.....

 

[maniclion]

Ahhh, I see your example now. Interesting point. Just as a man would, I thin the wolf would fight off its back only if it had to and do what it could to regain position.

Dont forget man's other weapons, his fingers. Not sure if it would do much, but if you can gouge out an eye, split the nose, or tear an ear (every dog Ive done that too whimpers) its 3 things a man can grab thanks to thumbs that a wolf cannot.

The man may be bit multiple times, but if he can blind it or tear its nose off, the wolf maybe preoccupied with that while the man can make its move.

With out a weapon how is the man going to gouge an eye, or
rip off a nose? You stated average man, not a Phonebook ripping musclehead, or snatch the pebble from my hand monk......you obviously haven't done much play fighting with a dog, you try to touch a dogs head and they just turn the muzzle and have you by the wrist or forearm. I play slap boxing games with my Belgian Malinois, closest to a wolf as I have and she is fucking swift as hell....

 

[KentDog]

To add to most of the points already mentioned.. isn't the average man nowadays sort of wussy?

 

[Dark Geared God]

Jam your fist down its mouth and break his spine

 

[CORUM]

honestly it depends..... it has been documented that wolves have helped out mankind. and if this is the case and they have a soft spot for mankind (like k9's which desend from wolves) then a man could take advantage of this. but if the wolf is pissed off, hungry, scared, feels threatened then.... the guy is done!!! if you have a dog in your house say APBT, AST, german shepard, rottweiler, cane corso, dogo argentina, or any other breed like that the only reason your alive and safe in your house is because of that dogs loyalty and love, if not your fucking DONE!!!

 

[CORUM]

another point a timber wolf isnt scared to go toe to toe with a fucking grizzly bear!!!! are u kidding me??? i dont think a man could pull this off

 

[I Are Baboon]

Dude, a fuckin MONKEY ripped a woman's hands and face off.

 

[DOMS]

Jam your fist down its mouth and break his spine

I don't know if you're joking, but this might be a viable defence. Jamming your hand down its throat and choking it might work.

 

[Dark Geared God]

I don't know if you're joking, but this might be a viable defence. Jamming your hand down its throat and choking it might work.

it works on large dogs they can't lock there jaw and build pressure..don't ask how i know....

 

[bio-chem]

in my mind the average man is 5'10" and 280 of solid flab. he has never seen a punch thrown and if he tried to throw a punch would probably pull a muscle in his back. his only course of action if an average wolf showed up would be to shit himself and smear it all over his body in the hopes that the wolf does not like to eat human feces. otherwise he is done for.

 

[CORUM]

it works on large dogs they can't lock there jaw and build pressure..don't ask how i know....

scientifically proven dogs CANNOT lock their jaws, even the notorious pit bull!!

 

[FMJ]

I think in theory, a man could inflict considerable damage to a wolf. The pounding on the nose thing I've heard before. Dog's at least would be detered by this.. at least long enough to get the drop on them.
The fist down the throat.. I dunno. Plausible, not probable.
The catch to any of these is getting yourself close enough to strike. Then you have to be prepared if the animal out maneuvers you (likely) and possibly receiving a strike... which honestly could be the begining of the end.

 

[maniclion]

Dude a wolf can crack a moose's femur with it's jaw strength, plus they have incredible stamina.....my dogs have lightning reflexes and they don't have to depend on them to survive in the wild.....if a white tail deer can stomp a man unconscious what chance would an unarmed man have against a predator of the white tail deer?