Another ???Green??? Company Goes Belly Up in the Age of Obama

[FUZO]

Another ???Green??? Company Goes Belly Up in the Age of Obama

Evergreen Solar Inc., the Massachusetts clean-energy company that received millions in state subsidies from the Patrick administration for an ill-fated Bay State factory, has filed for bankruptcy, listing $485.6 million in debt.
Evergreen, which closed its taxpayer-supported Devens factory in March and cut 800 jobs, has been trying to rework its debt for months. The cash-strapped company announced today has sought a reorganization in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Delaware and reached a deal with certain note holders to restructure its debt and auction off assets.
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Getting a sense of déjà vu yet? Just last month, we heard that an electric car company in Salinas padlocked their doors after half a million dollars from state and local governments.
A month before that, electric car company Think Global AS filed for bankruptcy, too.

Think Global AS plans to liquidate its assets, according to a statement from its exclusive battery supplier, Ener1 Inc.
Ener1, which engineers and makes its batteries in the Indianapolis area at its EnerDel subsidiary, notified investors Wednesday that the company would take a charge of more than $32 million on unpaid loans and accounts receivable from Think Global.
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Green cars, batteries for green cars, solar panels???all the industries that people like Obama tout as the hope for American and for jobs seems to be illusory at best. Particularly, after the public money runs out.
In May of 2010, Obama visited Solyndra Solar, in Fremont, California.

President Obama toured the Solyndra plant in Freemont, (sic) Calif. and gave an address before the press and state officials, including California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, outlining his vision for a thriving U.S. alternative energy sector buoyed by government funding.
???The promise of clean energy isn???t just an article of faith,??? Obama said, ???It???s not just some abstract possibility for science fiction movies or a distant future or 10 years down the road or 20 years, it???s happening right now. The future is here.??? ??? President Obama, speaking at Solyndra Solar.
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And just how did that work out, Mr. President? According to Jane Jamison:

Solyndra Solar Panel plant in Fremont, California has wasted a billion dollars, $535 million of those a direct bailout from U.S. taxpayers, and it is going ???bust.???
The Solyndra Solar panel plant in Fremont, California served as the convenient ???backdrop??? for Barack Obama???s ???green economy??? speeches in California, and other campaigning Democrats.
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So, for those of you without a score card, there are two types of ???green??? energy companies in the Age of Obama: Plants that produce expensive energy and cars no one wants to drive, that are only kept afloat by the massive infusion of government subsidies, and plants that produce expensive energy and cars no one wants to drive, that could not keep their doors open despite a massive infusion of government subsidies.
Got it? Now if only someone in this administration could!

 

[Inventive1]

What did this solar company produce? If the company's sales were tied to the construction industry and new home sales, it's no wonder that the company went out of business. The Construction industry has been hit brutally hard by this current economic downturn.

I believe MOST car companies have seen lower sales during the last several years. General Motors and Chysler both had to get government bail outs and close up dealerships. It's been a real tough time in the new car business. Therefore, it's not surprising that a small car company that few people have ever heard of would end up bankrupt.

I have NO idea what combination of factors lead to the demise of these companies. Perhaps their products were over priced, maybe they had poor quality products, or products which failed to meet the needs of consumers. Perhaps their marketing plan was no good or their management team sucked. There are MANY reasons companies fail. I wouldn't blame it on green technology. Some companies promoting green technology have prospered, while other companies have failed. Green companies are like other kinds of companies. Some make it, some don't.

I like sensible green technolgy when:

1. It is a good investment and saves money
2. When it improves my comfort and/or quality of life
3. It's more healthy

The last reason, being more healthy, is something most everyone on this board should agree with since body building and health are tied together.

Edit: I should add that giving government money to companies (of any kind) often doesn't work out to well. All to often, well meaning, but inept governement officials are quick to loan money to businesses they don't completely understand. (The Delorean car company is an example) Unfortunately, when the company fails, the tax payers get to foot the bill.

 

[LAM]

What did this solar company produce? If the company's sales were tied to the construction industry and new home sales, it's no wonder that the company went out of business. The Construction industry has been hit brutally hard by this current economic downturn.

I believe MOST car companies have seen lower sales during the last several years. General Motors and Chysler both had to get government bail outs and close up dealerships. It's been a real tough time in the new car business. Therefore, it's not surprising that a small car company that few people have ever heard of would end up bankrupt.

I have NO idea what combination of factors lead to the demise of these companies. Perhaps their products were over priced, maybe they had poor quality products, or products which failed to meet the needs of consumers. Perhaps their marketing plan was no good or their management team sucked. There are MANY reasons companies fail. I wouldn't blame it on green technology. Some companies promoting green technology have prospered, while other companies have failed. Green companies are like other kinds of companies. Some make it, some don't.

I like sensible green technolgy when:

1. It is a good investment and saves money
2. When it improves my comfort and/or quality of life
3. It's more healthy

The last reason, being more healthy, is something most everyone on this board should agree with since body building and health are tied together.

Edit: I should add that giving government money to companies (of any kind) often doesn't work out to well. All to often, well meaning, but inept governement officials are quick to loan money to businesses they don't completely understand. (The Delorean car company is an example) Unfortunately, when the company fails, the tax payers get to foot the bill.

you are spot on about the downturn in construction, with a housing surplus in most metro's there isn't much going on in terms of new contruction. you also have to factor in the increase in the personal savings rate over the past couple of years which is also contributing to the sluggish economy and reduced GDP growth for this year and the expected for next since gov stimulus was contracted to early. green energy, etc. is targeted at the middle class as the poor rent and most of the wealthy are not interested as this option has been available at some level for decades.

there has been substantial jobs losses in the middle class since 2007 this is also a factor. those that have found employment are most likely working in the service sector which is the largest growing job market right now and they are paying wages from $8-$14/hr. wages have also been stagnant since 2007. since then the cumulative inflation has been near 7% with wage growth in that same period average less than the rate of inflation.

* not sure why you brought up the DeLorean Car Company, they received no monies from the fed gov. after the SEC cancelled the IPO John couldn't raise funding in Ireland or the US. It's why he tried to get into drug smuggling to raise the capital. i'm quite familiar with this story as my sister went to private school with his daughter.

 

[maniclion]

Evergreen sold an inferior technology, the alt. Energy biz is like the computer industry when it first started booming. You have guys banking on the wrong type of cell technology, shysters getting big money and letting the company go bankrupt, we have guys here playing illegal games with tax incentives. Some are in it to stay and do it right and some want to jump on the bandwagon, make a few million and bail...

 

[AdmiralRichard]

Evergreen sold an inferior technology, the alt. Energy biz is like the computer industry when it first started booming. You have guys banking on the wrong type of cell technology, shysters getting big money and letting the company go bankrupt, we have guys here playing illegal games with tax incentives. Some are in it to stay and do it right and some want to jump on the bandwagon, make a few million and bail...

 

[Inventive1]

LAM, you are correct on the history of the Delorean car company. (Wikipedia has a good article about the Delorean) I'm a bit confused, not sure which car company I was thinking of now.

 

[LAM]

I'm sure that China subsidizing it's solar factories with billions of dollars had nothing at all to do with the failure of Solyndra. between that and falling demand from the current global recession...nah

Germany installed about 1.5GW of solar in 2009-2010 after taking their nukes off line

 

[oufinny]

The root of the problem could be a lot of things but this shows that reckless lending of government money is rarely effective and we foot the bill. Green energy will take off but government sponsorship will not "produce" a market for it nor will it make the companies that produce it improve efficiencies to be cost effective.

 

[maniclion]

I'm sure that China subsidizing it's solar factories with billions of dollars had nothing at all to do with the failure of Solyndra. between that and falling demand from the current global recession...nah

Germany installed about 1.5GW of solar in 2009-2010 after taking their nukes off line

That's why several US module manufacturers took out the anti-dumping claim on China last month. We had dinner twice with one of those companies president last week and he told us if things stayed the same with China selling solar modules at unrealistic prices many more US manufacturers would fail thats more jobs lost in our nation.

All I know is PV is very hot right now I sold more modules last month than anyone here has in a year....its insane.

 

[maniclion]

The root of the problem could be a lot of things but this shows that reckless lending of government money is rarely effective and we foot the bill. Green energy will take off but government sponsorship will not "produce" a market for it nor will it make the companies that produce it improve efficiencies to be cost effective.

Actually it has they cut the cells thinner and thinner all the time, thinner makes resistance lower. They have also been competing to make the processes more streamlined on the production lines.

Its kind of like microprocessors right now every 3 months lately they squeeze more wattage in the same size module. I've seen our main supplier go from 240 watt to 265 in a year. We just got 255's and they tells us 265 will be ready next month....

 

[LAM]

The root of the problem could be a lot of things but this shows that reckless lending of government money is rarely effective and we foot the bill. Green energy will take off but government sponsorship will not "produce" a market for it nor will it make the companies that produce it improve efficiencies to be cost effective.

it's not reckless if it was done with good intentions and at the time the market share was there. we obviously can't rely on large firms in the private sector as all they care about are profits and stock shares, so then just do nothing? that's not really a viable option either.

there has been plenty of times in US history when the fed gov has stepped up to the plate and gotten things done, but for some reason many forget those parts of our history.

 

[LAM]

Actually it has they cut the cells thinner and thinner all the time, thinner makes resistance lower. They have also been competing to make the processes more streamlined on the production lines.

exactly...considering that the US was one of the most industrialized countries after the 2nd phase of the industrial revolution we should have some of the best production lines in the world, but we do not. they have been constantly sent e sent overseas in the past decades at the sake of higher profits, talk about getting bit in the ass. many Americans are very short sighted.

take some of the same effort and resources as they do developing military tech and the US would be unstable...we should be selling shit to everyone not buying it from them

 

[Big Pimpin]

If green energy was such a viable investment, private equity would be fighting to get involved in it.

 

[oufinny]

Actually it has they cut the cells thinner and thinner all the time, thinner makes resistance lower. They have also been competing to make the processes more streamlined on the production lines.

Its kind of like microprocessors right now every 3 months lately they squeeze more wattage in the same size module. I've seen our main supplier go from 240 watt to 265 in a year. We just got 255's and they tells us 265 will be ready next month....

This is great news and I am really happy to hear it. As efficiency goes up and costs go down, there is no reason that these should not be on the roof of all new build houses or easily installed on existing if the owner wants to. Responsible green energy that is cost neutral or costs less is something I totally support but this shit China is pulling is another reason why we need to stop kissing their ass when all they are doing is bending us over and giving one spit before we are raped.

 

[oufinny]

it's not reckless if it was done with good intentions and at the time the market share was there. we obviously can't rely on large firms in the private sector as all they care about are profits and stock shares, so then just do nothing? that's not really a viable option either.

there has been plenty of times in US history when the fed gov has stepped up to the plate and gotten things done, but for some reason many forget those parts of our history.

I am going to make this simple as we don't see eye to eye on this; fuck intentions, it is either a smart investment with a high probability of paying off or it is not. Politicians making decisions to fund investment in their districts is just that, reckless and we get the bill for their reelection campaign. If you actually had people who know how to do this type of analysis like you see in private capital firms, there would be much less waste.

 

[oufinny]

exactly...considering that the US was one of the most industrialized countries after the 2nd phase of the industrial revolution we should have some of the best production lines in the world, but we do not. they have been constantly sent e sent overseas in the past decades at the sake of higher profits, talk about getting bit in the ass. many Americans are very short sighted.

take some of the same effort and resources as they do developing military tech and the US would be unstable...we should be selling shit to everyone not buying it from them

This is very true, there is a limit to how many ships, planes, tanks and constant new tech we need for the military...

 

[maniclion]

I am going to make this simple as we don't see eye to eye on this; fuck intentions, it is either a smart investment with a high probability of paying off or it is not. Politicians making decisions to fund investment in their districts is just that, reckless and we get the bill for their reelection campaign. If you actually had people who know how to do this type of analysis like you see in private capital firms, there would be much less waste.

How much subsidizing do we do for oil, coal and natural gas? What costs are we going to end up with when we pollute our world into oblivion.

Trust me renewables pencil out beautifully under the 7 generations way of planning... Here in Hawaii it's even more so since we burn oil for 80%+ for our electricity and we are at 33¢ kW and rising. My elect bill has doubled in the last 2 years good thing I put solar thermal water heating and PV with battery backup on my house 3 years ago. At current rate of bill increase my solar will be paid off July of next year and I'll be getting half my elect free for 15+ years just based on warranty of equipment. The modules will last twice that and they were most of the cost....

 

[Gissurjon]

I am going to make this simple as we don't see eye to eye on this; fuck intentions, it is either a smart investment with a high probability of paying off or it is not. Politicians making decisions to fund investment in their districts is just that, reckless and we get the bill for their reelection campaign. If you actually had people who know how to do this type of analysis like you see in private capital firms, there would be much less waste.

The word "smart" appears nowhere in the definition of "reckless". A stupid decision does not automatically constitute recklessness. It is not so stupid to conclude that investing in green energy is a good choice, but as with any "new" industry, there is little history to analyze, predict and so forth.

 

[Dark Geared God]

The word "smart" appears nowhere in the definition of "reckless". A stupid decision does not automatically constitute recklessness. It is not so stupid to conclude that investing in green energy is a good choice, but as with any "new" industry, there is little history to analyze, predict and so forth.

 

[maniclion]

All the renewable nay-sayers remind me of Ken Olsen who said we would never see a PC in every home or something to that effect....

 

[LAM]

If you actually had people who know how to do this type of analysis like you see in private capital firms, there would be much less waste.

private capital firms do not care if their actions are harmful to other sectors of the economy or labor force not a good argument.

 

[oufinny]

private capital firms do not care if their actions are harmful to other sectors of the economy or labor force not a good argument.

LAM, no one is good enough for you or is not corrupt. Not every freaking company is bad or has an evil agenda, sometimes you need to realize the reality and that is uneducated government officials with no accountability making decisions they aren't experienced enough or qualified for are not the right answer where there are better options out there. Is private capital the 100% solution to the problem, no, but I would have more faith in them then someone spending money they are not accountable to or for.

 

[oufinny]

All the renewable nay-sayers remind me of Ken Olsen who said we would never see a PC in every home or something to that effect....

HI has an easy solution to its power problems, its called nuclear power and one per island (assuming there is enough land for a small reactor) is all you need. That said, people who ask questions or make green energy prove its worth are not naysayers, we are being smart. Those that right it off are the ones you need to direct that type of gross generalization to as they are the ones that meet that stereotype.

The US needs a transitional energy policy with 25/50/75/100 year goals that are aggressive but attainable. The first 50 years is going to highly focused on fossil fuels, namely oil, cause the US probably has over 50-75 million cars and they aren't going away. You have too big an installed base for oil to not grow as an industry and why not, it creates high paying jobs and removes the risks of doing business with OPEC. Green energy needs to grow organically and systematically as it becomes economically viable for most Americans. It should be offered on all new builds as an option in states where there is enough sunshine to work; there is no reason this should not be available. Wind power is far from "green" when you look at what goes into making the windmills and the power output of the biggest windmills is so little compared to nuclear it is hard, if even possible, to justify. Are all the greenies ready to give up tons of public land for massive wind farms of will they find some endangered worm that could die if we dig in that remote part of the dessert?

All options need to be considered, the government can be involved as a regulator and to a small extent as an investor, but besides a plan that is backed by laws pushing the changes over long periods of time; nothing will come of it by tons of money being sunk into an industry that is not viable on a large scale.

The President had a golden opportunity to enact a real energy policy that would have probably made you really happy but he didn't; instead he turned down the main domestic source of energy so we all pay more now. BP/Halliburton/Transocean were irresponsible and put a horrible spotlight on an otherwise safety conscious industry (regardless of what you think, there are more safety briefings and systems built into all aspects of the industry it is ridiculous). What happened was a huge setback for a massive job creator for America and out of it all we have an ineffective bureacracy [BOEMRE, it just changed again!] that is ran by people who are not qualified to decide on permits leading to more risk and an industry at the mercy of an organization that is massively understaffed with no clear regulations.

I can go on and on, just as you could to the benefits of solar; both arguments are full of merit. I am happy your company is making great progress, it is what the industry needs, that does not mean it is ready for the mainstream to replace all fossil fuels though.

 

[vancouver]

it's not reckless if it was done with good intentions and at the time the market share was there. we obviously can't rely on large firms in the private sector as all they care about are profits and stock shares, so then just do nothing? that's not really a viable option either.

there has been plenty of times in US history when the fed gov has stepped up to the plate and gotten things done, but for some reason many forget those parts of our history.

So businesses should invest in early stage technology, with the view to replacing current technology before it's viable; then go out of business and not be able to hire anyone...

 

[LAM]

LAM, no one is good enough for you or is not corrupt. Not every freaking company is bad or has an evil agenda, sometimes you need to realize the reality and that is uneducated government officials with no accountability making decisions they aren't experienced enough or qualified for are not the right answer where there are better options out there. Is private capital the 100% solution to the problem, no, but I would have more faith in them then someone spending money they are not accountable to or for.

they have all the money why aren't they doing it then? private capital is one thing the US is not short on....but no private investment from those that have the ability...just like no jobs from the the large firms pulling in record profits. you can't sit around with you thumb up your ass during a major recession recovery, it just make the long term economic outlook that less promising.

 

[oufinny]

So businesses should invest in early stage technology, with the view to replacing current technology before it's viable; then go out of business and not be able to hire anyone...

Exactly!

 

[oufinny]

they have all the money why aren't they doing it then? private capital is one thing the US is not short on....but no private investment from those that have the ability...just like no jobs from the the large firms pulling in record profits. you can't sit around with you thumb up your ass during a major recession recovery, it just make the long term economic outlook that less promising.

Where is the incentive? Where is the market to support the investment? Where are the rules to make green energy a part of new builds? You take an idealistic view that I find admirable but does not sync with reality sometimes (in my eyes at least, you can disagree as I am sure you will).

 

[LAM]

Where is the incentive? Where is the market to support the investment? Where are the rules to make green energy a part of new builds? You take an idealistic view that I find admirable but does not sync with reality sometimes (in my eyes at least, you can disagree as I am sure you will).

the incentive is for a better future for the country...everything can't be about monetary incentives. just like capital projects that private firms don't contribute to, they benefit from them but there is no incentive for them to appropriate monies for these projects because there is no direct return on those investments. the US will lag behind all in the development and implementation of green tech and country's like Germany that are biting the bullet now will be world leaders in their implementation and utilization. if you hadn't noticed the US doesn't really lead at anything productive anymore

 

[irish_2003]

c'mon....us intelligent people know that global warming is a hoax and going green is the biggest financial scam EVER

 

[Big Pimpin]

c'mon....us intelligent people know that global warming is a hoax and going green is the biggest financial scam EVER

You mean the Democrats only want 'green energy' and 'carbon credits' because there's billions of dollars for them and their special interests to make with these initiatives?

I agree and most Americans agree as well.