• Hello, this board in now turned off and no new posting.
    Please REGISTER at Anabolic Steroid Forums, and become a member of our NEW community!

Austerity Brings Unemployment to New Highs in Spain and France

LAM

Is Doin It 4 Da Shorteez
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2002
Messages
16,294
Reaction score
1,432
Points
0
Location
Las Vegas & St. Croix
bet you wished you lived in a 1st world country like Australia :lol:
 
comparing Spain and Frances economy to the US. lmao!

wow, you're as dumb as I suspected.

Name one place where austerity has worked.
 
Name one place where austerity has worked.

Canada "could" be used an example. They made some deep cuts and drastically increased taxes on the wealthy and it has worked for them.

Getting oil out of the tar sands has also been a huge economic boost for them as well.
 
comparing Spain and Frances economy to the US. lmao!

wow, you're as dumb as I suspected.

as if you know one single thing about other economy's in the OECD when you know nothing about the economy in which the country you live in. educated on all things by right wing media has only insured that you know nothing about everything as is evident in the utter lack of details and data in any and every single post you make on the subject.
 
Name one place where austerity has worked.

it's nothing more than the standard GOP "setup" to crash the economy further then if/when they resume power they can pass more supply-side tax cuts with more unsustainable debt based economy's and eventual recessions which we all know causes permanent wealth transfers up the ladder. only the most ignorant still fall for their rudimentary recession causing economic policies.
 
you guys have way too much faith in gov. you think gov/politicians can run our economy? lol.

17 Trillion and counting....... yeah great idea. keep spending, wasting money for nothing but the destruction of the dollar which will lead to the collapse of the US.

I bet you guys think debt is no big deal, means nothing, right?

the US is on pace this year to have the most revenue ever collected by the US treasury in our history. cutting the rate of increase of spending is not cutting spending. we still spend more year after year.

who's talking about actually cutting spending???????

austerity will only happen when the US collapses.
 
you guys have way too much faith in gov. you think gov/politicians can run our economy? lol.

17 Trillion and counting....... yeah great idea.

and 60% of that was from supply-side tax cuts and another 15-20% from loan servicing costs but of course you wouldn't know that because you don't read economic reports. getting all your "data" from right wing media outlets...LMAO!

forget the reports from the nobel prize winning economists on the subject...all of whom voting against the supply-side tax cuts in 2001 and 2003.
 
comparing Spain and Frances economy to the US. lmao!

wow, you're as dumb as I suspected.

that's right because basic economic functions and mathematics works differently in the EU...and you have the audacity to call another stupid.
 
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
that's right because basic economic functions and mathematics works differently in the EU...and you have the audacity to call another stupid.

do they have a fed that prints money out of thin air?
 
and 60% of that was from supply-side tax cuts and another 15-20% from loan servicing costs but of course you wouldn't know that because you don't read economic reports. getting all your "data" from right wing media outlets...LMAO!

forget the reports from the nobel prize winning economists on the subject...all of whom voting against the supply-side tax cuts in 2001 and 2003.

we are having the most revenue ever this year under the bush tax cuts.
 
you guys have way too much faith in gov. you think gov/politicians can run our economy? lol.

17 Trillion and counting....... yeah great idea. keep spending, wasting money for nothing but the destruction of the dollar which will lead to the collapse of the US.

I bet you guys think debt is no big deal, means nothing, right?

the US is on pace this year to have the most revenue ever collected by the US treasury in our history. cutting the rate of increase of spending is not cutting spending. we still spend more year after year.

who's talking about actually cutting spending???????

austerity will only happen when the US collapses.

we are having the most revenue ever this year under the bush tax cuts.

lol
 
we are having the most revenue ever this year under the bush tax cuts.

the entire increase in US GDP in the early 2000's was from mortgage debt...next
 
right here in the USA after world war 2. duh.

you mean when the US has a large manufacturing base and actually made things and had a very small financial sector. the complete opposite of the large low wage service sector based economy and large self serving recession causing financial sector of today...

the money printing days of the FED didn't start until the 80's when Reagan adopted the monetary policy of Milton Friedman and the monetary base was doubled every decade on a growing US population of only 1% annually....exactly the same time when the debt stated the pile up, the DOW & NASDAQ blew up, wages stagnated and the financial sector also blew up in the US.

your critical thinking skills are non-existent to compare the US economy of today to that of post WWII....
 
Last edited:
Canada "could" be used an example. They made some deep cuts and drastically increased taxes on the wealthy and it has worked for them.

Getting oil out of the tar sands has also been a huge economic boost for them as well.

That's the thing, Canada increased taxes on the wealthy. That isn't even on the table in other places. Especially the US.
 
That's the thing, Canada increased taxes on the wealthy. That isn't even on the table in other places. Especially the US.

where have you been? the US recently raise taxes on top earners.
 
What austerity measures were taken?

"In the four years from peak World War II spending in 1944 to 1948, the U.S. government cut spending by $72 billion?a 75-percent reduction. It brought federal spending down from a peak of 44 percent of gross national product (GNP) in 1944 to only 8.9 percent in 1948, a drop of over 35 percentage points of GNP"
 
"In the four years from peak World War II spending in 1944 to 1948, the U.S. government cut spending by $72 billion?a 75-percent reduction. It brought federal spending down from a peak of 44 percent of gross national product (GNP) in 1944 to only 8.9 percent in 1948, a drop of over 35 percentage points of GNP"

and the US has a completely different economy, financial sector and the population has grown from 140M to over 310M in 2012 yet you want to employ the same tactics to restore the economy despite the mountains of empirical data stating the exact opposite will occur when government spending is reduced. look what's happened to the economy when the effects of the 2009 stimulus wore off? the economy tanked as was forecast by every recent nobel prize winning economist, whom all stated it was too small and relied far to heavily on tax cuts at 30% of the package.

there is only one single situation in which austerity measures work when and it applies to all economy's:

the economy is in positive growth AND government spending is crowding out private sector investment AND when there is room for monetary policy to be enacted, aka. reduced rates, neither of which is applicable to the economic environment we are in today.
 
Last edited:
"In the four years from peak World War II spending in 1944 to 1948, the U.S. government cut spending by $72 billion?a 75-percent reduction. It brought federal spending down from a peak of 44 percent of gross national product (GNP) in 1944 to only 8.9 percent in 1948, a drop of over 35 percentage points of GNP"

We weren't fighting a war. Duh.
 
We weren't fighting a war. Duh.

don't go confusing him with more than one fact at a time, it overloads his brain cell. remember the brain of the radical only deals in absolutes, cutting spending is ALWAYS good, cutting taxes is ALWAYS good, etc..there is never a grey area for them it's always so "simple" and black and white for the lazy thinkers on the right.
 
don't go confusing him with more than one fact at a time, it overloads his brain cell. remember the brain of the radical only deals in absolutes, cutting spending is ALWAYS good, cutting taxes is ALWAYS good, etc..there is never a grey area for them it's always so "simple" and black and white for the lazy thinkers on the right.

lol all you advocate is spend spend tax tax. talk about the pot calling the kettle black...... try again
 
Why Austerity Works and Stimulus Doesn’t
By Anders Aslund
January 07, 2013 6:55 PM EST

After five years of financial crisis, the European record is in: Northern Europe is sound, thanks to austerity, while southern Europe is hurting because of half- hearted austerity or, worse, fiscal stimulus. The predominant Keynesian thinking has been tested, and it has failed spectacularly.
The starkest contrasts are Latvia and Greece, two small countries hit the worst by the crisis. They have pursued different policies, Latvia strict austerity, and Greece late and limited austerity. Latvia saw a sharp gross domestic product decline of 24 percent for two years, which was caused by an almost complete liquidity freeze in 2008. This necessitated the austerity that followed.
Yet Latvia’s economy grew by 5.5 percent in 2011, and in 2012 it probably expanded by 5.3 percent, the highest growth in Europe, with a budget deficit of only 1.5 percent of GDP. Meanwhile, Greece will suffer from at least seven meager years, having endured five years of recession already. So far, its GDP has fallen by 18 percent. In 2008 and 2009, the financial crisis actually looked far worse in Latvia than Greece, but then they chose opposite policies. The lessons are clear.
A successful stabilization program must appear financially sustainable so that it can restore confidence among creditors, businesses and people. Usually, a sound stabilization program can revive economic growth within two or three years, as Latvia’s did. A few rules of thumb need to be followed. Latvia did them all; Greece not at all.
Regain Confidence
To regain confidence fast, reforms should be front-loaded. In 2009, Latvia carried out an arduous fiscal adjustment of 9.5 percent of GDP, 60 percent of the total needed, while Greece foolishly tried to stimulate its economy, as Spain, Slovenia, Cyprus and other southern crisis countries did at the flawed advice of the International Monetary Fund under Dominique Strauss-Kahn, who was then the managing director.
In a severe crisis, it is much easier to cut public expenditures than to raise revenue. Moreover, taxpayers think the government should tighten its belt when they are forced to do so. Cuts in public spending accounted for two-thirds of the Latvian fiscal adjustment. It decreased government expenditures from a high of 44 percent of GDP in the midst of the crisis to a moderate level of 36 percent of GDP this year. Latvia has kept a flat personal income tax now at 21 percent and a low corporate profit tax of 15 percent.
Greece, by contrast, maintained high public expenditures of 50 percent of gross domestic product in both 2010 and 2011, when it was supposed to be pursuing austerity. It should cut its public spending to 40 percent of GDP to become financially sustainable. Then the Greek crisis would end. Greece has carried out a fiscal adjustment of 9 percent of GDP to date, but that is too little and too late. It is less than Latvia did in the first year, and Greece needs to do more.
An advantage of sudden and sharp cuts in public expenditures is that they can’t be even, as some items can’t be cut. Therefore they drive reforms. The Latvian government hit hard at the stifling bureaucracy that swelled during the preceding boom. It fired 30 percent of the civil servants, closed half the state agencies, and reduced the average public salary by 26 percent in one year.
It prohibited double-dipping by officials, who had earned more in fees from corporate boards of state-owned companies than in salaries. The ministers took personal wage cuts of 35 percent, while pensions and social benefits were barely reduced. The cuts prompted deregulation, and Latvia saw a boom in the creation of new enterprises in 2011.
‘Most Corrupt’
By contrast, Greece has allowed clientelism and corruption to thrive. During the purported austerity, Socialist Prime Minister George Papandreou increased the number of civil servants by 5,000 from 2010 to 2011, because they were his power base. Transparency International ranks Greece the most corrupt country in the EU.
A serious financial crisis requires international emergency funding. Latvia received substantial credits from the IMF, the European Union and neighboring countries. Altogether, the committed funds amounted to 37 percent of Latvia’s GDP in 2008, but Latvia used 60 percent of the credits committed. In late December it paid back all its IMF loans almost three years earlier than necessary because it can borrow more cheaply on the market. Its six-year bond yields have plummeted to 1.7 percent, while the Greek 10-year bond yields are 11 percent.
In May 2010, Greece received far more help than Latvia did -- the largest IMF credit ever -- but its stabilization program was neither credible nor executed. The Greek public debt has been excessive, and it remains so after two substantial, yet insufficient, debt reductions. The government needs to seriously cut its spending, reduce its bureaucracy and prosecute corrupt leaders, and the IMF and EU have to become adamant about their conditions.
Furthermore, a front-loaded austerity program shows people that the government is up to the task. Latvia experienced violent riots in January 2009, but in March 2009 Valdis Dombrovskis became prime minister. He stated that there were two alternatives, one bad and one worse, and he preferred the bad alternative. He reached agreement on his stabilization program with the trade unions and employers. Nothing works like success. Dombrovskis (with whom I co-wrote a book on the Latvian crisis) was re-elected in 2010 and 2011.
Greece has suffered from huge demonstrations and riots, and for good reason. For too long, public employees have maintained their privileges while others expressed frustration with an irresponsible government. Since June, it appears the new Greek government is finally becoming serious.
IMF Warning
Recently, the IMF warned that cutting government spending had more negative effects than previously thought. But the fund focuses on one single year. What really matters is how quickly a crisis can be resolved and the long-term growth trajectory, as Latvia shows so elegantly.
Last June, the IMF’s managing director, Christine Lagarde, went to Riga to celebrate Latvia’s success and did so in no uncertain terms: “We are here today to celebrate your achievements, but also to make sure that you can build on this success as you look to the future.”
Now, however, the IMF complains that Latvia has cut social spending too much. Unemployment remains the main concern, but it has fallen substantially from 20.7 percent in early 2010 to 13.5 percent in the fall of 2012. Latvia is undergoing a major structural change, as an oversized construction sector has collapsed, and new manufacturing companies are expanding. Real adjustment takes time. Another complaint is the country’s inequality, but that can only change gradually.
The U.S. situation is quite different. As the world’s biggest economy issuing the dominant reserve currency, it doesn’t feel the pressures from the international credit market that a small economy does if it has a public debt exceeding GDP, as the U.S. now has. With Treasury yields at record lows and a required fiscal adjustment of only 3 percent to 4 percent of GDP, the U.S. fiscal problem might be perceived as too small to solve. That is the great danger for the country.
 
Back
Top