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Benching and workout routine...

For some reason I feel like I'm starting over almost totally

Good cause you practically are!.

As for military presses, they are for the shoulders not the chest. There is a variety of ways you can do them (standing, seated, with barbell or DB, etc). I usually find seated with DB's the best, although I do standing BB presses sometimes. Just be careful about doing them behind the neck (have a read about this elsewhere so you can make up your own mind).

Upright rows, if done correctly DO take some getting use to AND are not supposed to be done with massive amounts of weight. What you say is good, means you're taking it nice and slow. When you achieve the upper limit of the rep range for a set (like 10 in the case of 3 x 8-10) before failure then you need to increase the weight. By how much? only you will know through experience.

eg Say your first set upright rows is the bar + 5lbs a side (so 55lbs) and you get 10 just on failure, I wouldn't increase the weight for the next set because you probably won't have as much strength/endurance for the 2nd set so leave the weight as it is. However, if you got 10 reps easy then you'd need to up it 5 or 10 lbs for the next set.

When you go back in the next week, you look at your notes, if you got 10 reps on 55lbs, then for you first set I would add 10lbs, maybe you'd get 7 or 8 reps, OK then drop back to 55 for the 2nd set. It takes some practice and experience but it keeps you focused.

Important thing is to stay in the rep range. Don't pack on weight if you know you're only going to get 4 reps when you should be getting at least 8.

cheers
 
KarlW said:
As for military presses, they are for the shoulders not the chest.
Is there an echo in here ?:hmmm:
 
Karl, this has really helped me out a lot. I've switched to this too. I would like to thank you. And ask if you could create a day for arms to throw in too. Thanks in advance. One other thing today when i was doing dips. First set i got 8, second 4, and third 4. Would you suggest going for 3 sets of 6? Or is what i did fine, just go for 8-10 all 3 sets next thursday?
 
If you want to get strong then you want to keep pushing the envelope..
If you do 8 then wait 15-30 seconds and do 2 more right away to make 10. Then rest a minute to 1.5 and do as many as you can do. If you were doing 4 then push for 6. Then rest a few seconds an pick up the remaining till you can do 10. That is how you build yourself up. Before you know it you will be adding weight.
 
Originally Posted by Randy

Is there an echo in here ?

Yeah, I started my post before I read yours and took a phone call in the middle of it. LOL :doh:
 
Bananas, adding arms changes the whole routine around. I'll post something soon.

As for the dips, stay in the 8 -10 rep range. You could drop to 6 (subsequently adding some weight on your first set) IF you wanted to head towards a more power oriented workout (like you would for P/RR/S). However, the original routine I posted was just something to get Sean started, for which purpose the 8-10 RR is best.
 
Now that I've switch from mainly an all arm routine to a balanced routine, I can see that my arms are definately stronger than my chest, back, legs etc proportionately. Right now, I can probably curl the same amount of weight that I can do close grip benches with, which I believe is the opposite of how it's supposed to be (well, bench more and curl less anyway). Dips are tough, first set I didn't use an assisted weight, but the 2nd one I used 20lbs, and the 3rd I used 30 lbs.

Also I forgot....I haven't been documenting the weight I've been doing :(. I meant to pick up a sheet and fill it out the first day, but forgot...Oh well guess I try to remember saturday.

I remembered what I did today, here it is... I did warmup sets before each of these except for Dips, didn't think there was much point for dips.

Chest/Shoulders 11-18-04



Dips

1st set, did 9 reps no assistance

2nd set, did 10 reps, 20lbs assistance

3rd set, did 10 reps, 30 lbs assistance



Military Press (lower weight next week to round out the sets

1st set did 7 reps at 65 lbs

2nd set did 6 reps at 55 lbs

3rd set did 7 reps at 45 lbs (added this set to get 20 total)



Upright Rows

1st set 10 reps at 55lbs

2nd set 10 reps at 45 lbs



Close Grip Bench Press

1st set did 10 reps at 65lbs

2nd set did 10 reps at 75 lbs



Dumbbell Bench press

1st set did 10 reps with 30 lbs DBs

2nd set did 10 reps with 25 lbs DBs

3rd set did 10 reps with 25 lbs DBs
 
Originally Posted by Seanp156

Also I forgot....I haven't been documenting the weight I've been doing

:finger:

Looks good, did you do DB bench first or last?
 
Okay I'll just stick with this for now and wait for what you have comming, because before i was trying to just do a muscle group a day. but i had no structure. This is way more organized and i can see my self progress better by writing down my reps and weight for each set. I know this was not for me karl but i thank you for doing this you too randy :rocker:.


edit: Oh did you want us to decrease weight on each set? Or increase? ex 25 - 30 - 35, or 35 - 30 - 25.
 
Here's a rountine incorporating arms, pretty basic.

Workout #1 Quads/Traps
Squats 3x8-10
Leg press 3x8-10
Barbell lunges 1x10-12
Hang cleans 3x8-10
Smith machine shrugs 2x8-10

Workout #2 Chest/Calves/Bis
flat bench 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10
Incline bench 2x8-10
Machine calf raise 4x8-10
Barbell curls 3x8-10
Hammer curls 2x8-10

Workout #3 Hams/Shoulders
Stiff deadlifts 3x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10
Seated DB press 3x8-10
Upright row 2x8-10
Lateral raises 1x8-10

Workout #4 Back/Tris
Chins 3x8-10
Deadlifts 3x8-10
DB row 2x8-10
CG bench 3x8-10
Skull crushers 2x8-10

My advice to Sean though is don't bother with this for 4-6 weeks or so, stick to the more basic routine.
 
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Thanks karl, i'm going to do the current 3 day split. Then in two weeks switch to this. Or would it be best just to do this right away?
 
Originally Posted by BaNaNaS

Oh did you want us to decrease weight on each set? Or increase? ex 25 - 30 - 35, or 35 - 30 - 25.

It's about staying in the rep range, and getting failure (or almost) in that rep range. So the weight may go up OR down depending on how you go in each set.

Rule 1. Warm up adequately: this is almost like pyramiding up the weight except that you DO NOT go near failure.

Rule 2. 1st working set dependent on what you did last time (or a good guess if it's your first)

Rule 3. Subsequent sets dependent on previous set.

eg Say you're doing deadlifts. Last week you did 200 x 9, 200 x 7, 200 x 5

ie you didn't adjust the weights so you dropped out of the rep range (8-10) on the 2nd and 3rd set. So this week you'd have your warm up sets - maybe 45 x 10, 95 x 8, 135 x 5, 175 x 3. Then your 1st working set would be 200 and say you get 10 so you go for 200 again and you get 7, now you know you have to peel off some weight (maybe down to 175) and you get 8. Next week you can start 1st working set on maybe 205 or 210.
 
Originally Posted by BaNaNaS

Thanks karl, i'm going to do the current 3 day split. Then in two weeks switch to this. Or would it be best just to do this right away?

I'd stay on the first one (maybe for 3-4 weeks) then rest 3-4 days before going onto the 2nd one.
 
KarlW said:
Upright rows, if done correctly DO take some getting use to AND are not supposed to be done with massive amounts of weight. What you say is good, means you're taking it nice and slow. When you achieve the upper limit of the rep range for a set (like 10 in the case of 3 x 8-10) before failure then you need to increase the weight. By how much? only you will know through experience.

I like to take my upright rows pretty heavy and do them fairly rhythmically. To each his own.
 
KarlW said:
Yeah, I started my post before I read yours and took a phone call in the middle of it. LOL :doh:
That's ok, it happens :)
 
Cowpimp what do you mean by rythmically? Do you mean quick?
 
That can be quick or slow or in the middle, it means with a pattern that is continual and unchanging.

I do higher reps for shrugs, 12-15 reps, once in awhile I might hit 20.
 
He means with Rhythm :lol:

I do the same thing with my shrugs. I rotate in a smooth rotation at a specific rhythm.
 
Mudge said:
That can be quick or slow or in the middle, it means with a pattern that is continual and unchanging.

I do higher reps for shrugs, 12-15 reps, once in awhile I might hit 20.
Just like a music ....rhythm can come in all forms. :D
 
Randy said:
I do the same thing with my shrugs. I rotate in a smooth rotation at a specific rhythm.

Rotate? You should not be rotating anything, unless you want to blow out your rotators. Up and down, just like you do at night.
 
Mudge said:
Rotate? You should not be rotating anything, unless you want to blow out your rotators. Up and down, just like you do at night.
Why do some bodybuilders recommend and illustrate in their exercise books to do shrugs in a circular motion?

Could it just be dangerous if you have problems with your rotator cuffs?
I've never had problems with mine. Or are your rotators that sensative where you should still avoid them despite not ever having problems with them?
 
Randy said:
Why do some bodybuilders recommend and illustrate in their exercise books to do shrugs in a circular motion?

Could it just be dangerous if you have problems with your rotator cuffs?
I've never had problems with mine. Or are your rotators that sensative where you should still avoid them despite not ever having problems with them?



Well, the traps (specifically trap 1 and 2 which we work when doing shrugs) work to elevate the scapula, not rotate the shoulder joint. So, if you are trying to work your traps then shrug up. The thing about rotating with that much weight (the load is typically heavy when people do shrugs) is that you are rotating back , external rotation of the shoulder. the external rotators (teres minor, infraspinatus, posterior delt) are small muscles and can't handle that much load. Overloading these muscles can lead to a tear.

There could be two reason that most bodybuilders advocate a cirucalr motion for shrugs. One (and probably my guess) is that they have very little knowledge of biomechanics and don't know what the hell they are talking about. Or two, when going through external shoulder rotation your shoulder girdle will abduct and slightly rotate inwards, which will recruit some of the lower traps (trap 3 and 4). But, there are better ways to hit the fibers of the lower traps that are much safer. Exercises that you already do like low rows or pull ups/downs (which internally rotate the scapula) are good enough.
 
Randy said:
Why do some bodybuilders recommend and illustrate in their exercise books to do shrugs in a circular motion?

Wait a second, are you proposing that all of them actually know what they are talking about?

There is no prerequisite in bodybuilding that says lifting heavy weights, eating a lot of food, and doing drugs requires you to actually know the safest way of doing things.

Come on man, Ronnie Coleman believes he was 3 tenths of a percent bodyfat giving him less than one pound of bodyfat over his whole body.
 
...

Mudge said:
Wait a second, are you proposing that all of them actually know what they are talking about?

Of course not, that is why I am asking?

There is no prerequisite in bodybuilding that says lifting heavy weights, eating a lot of food, and doing drugs requires you to actually know the safest way of doing things.

So what Mudge, are you saying you're recommendation is wrong? :lol:

Come on man, Ronnie Coleman believes he was 3 tenths of a percent bodyfat giving him less than one pound of bodyfat over his whole body.
 
Hey Mudge, what do you think of this? :D Sounds pretty interesting.

S.J. streets may roar with racing sounds

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PROPOSED GRAND PRIX-STYLE EVENT HAILED AS BOON FOR BUSINESS, CITY PROFILE
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[size=-1]By Rodney Foo[/size]
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[size=-1]Mercury News[/size]
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San Jose officials said Friday they have reached a tentative agreement to stage a grand prix car race in the streets surrounding HP Pavilion in July.

The five-year deal with the race promoter -- the Woodside-based Canary Fund, a non-profit corporation dedicated to early cancer detection -- is being applauded by city officials who say the Champ Car World Series event could generate millions of dollars for businesses and the city treasury while raising San Jose's profile.

``It gets our name and our identity out literally across the world, so from that perspective, you can't buy better PR,'' said Councilwoman Cindy Chavez, whose district includes downtown.

The race is contingent on the city council approving $650,000 to help shoulder the $3 million needed to prepare the course and pay for public safety services during the race, which could attract 120,000 people downtown. The promoter will be responsible for funding the remaining $2.35 million.

The event, similar to the Grand Prix of Long Beach, features open-wheel cars that reach speeds above 150 mph as they race around a 1.5-mile course along West Santa Clara Street through the HP Pavilion parking lot and in the streets behind the arena.

The proposal is scheduled for the council's Dec. 7 agenda, said Mayor Ron Gonzales' budget and policy director, Joe Guerra.

``We're optimistic about getting this thing going,'' said Canary Fund President Dale Jantzen.

The $650,000 investment request comes just weeks after city officials announced San Jose was facing a $60 million budget shortage next year. However, Guerra said the money being proposed would come from funds that don't finance city services.

The proposal calls for tapping $250,000 from a redevelopment agency business grant fund and $400,000 from a city Office of Economic Development fund dedicated for small business loans, Guerra said. The plan calls for the city to be repaid with race revenues.

The agreement to hold races with the Canary Fund -- founded by former Cisco senior executive Don Listwin -- would end after five years with an opportunity to renew for another five years, said David Vossbrink, the mayor's spokesman.

The agreement, reached Friday morning, ends six months of negotiations between the Canary Fund and city officials, who say the July 29-31 event could nourish cash-strapped downtown businesses and pour $10 million to $20 million in local sales-tax revenue into the treasury.

``Revenues generated by the event will bring real economic benefit to our community and local businesses,'' Gonzales said in a news release.

But others, such as the Silicon Valley Taxpayers Association, aren't sold on the race being financed with public money.

``There is a more critical need for the money and higher priorities,'' association president Dennis Umphress said. ``I think it's inappropriate for the city to be in the racing business.''

Association board member George Swenson said he didn't trust the city's revenue projection.

``I would believe their estimates are overly optimistic,'' he said.

But in Long Beach, a three-day race event this year added $40 million to the local economy and drew more than 175,000 spectators, according to race officials.

In Denver, the race brought in $17 million and 112,000 visitors, said Tim Litherland, sports and special markets director for the Denver Metro Convention and Visitors Bureau.

``It's like having a small convention come to town,'' said Kevin Magner, who oversees special projects for Denver's public works department and worked on negotiations to bring a Champ Car event into the city.

The Champ Car World Series, formerly known as Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART), had been the dominant ``open wheel'' racing series in the United States for years, featuring drivers such as Mario Andretti and Al Unser. The schedule was highlighted by the Indianapolis 500.

But in 1994, Indianapolis Motor Speedway owner Tony George began a competing series, the Indy Racing League (IRL), and took the Indy 500 with him. Top drivers eventually followed, crippling CART, which declared bankruptcy last year.

A new ownership group, which included former Silicon Valley CEO Kevin Kalkhoven, took over and changed the series' name to Champ Car.

Of the $3 million initially needed for the course, $2.8 million will be used to prepare streets and the arena's parking lot for the race. The remaining $200,000 is needed for police, fire, paramedic and dispatch services.

Because of the racing cars' low ground clearance, the crowned streets must be repaved with a special asphalt and made smooth so that the road is virtually level. The asphalt takes three months to cure so it must be poured by late April.

The San Jose Sports Authority and the city's Office of Economic Development have been scouring Silicon Valley's corporate world for sponsors to help pay the costs. Knight Ridder -- the Mercury News' parent company -- has pledged $100,000 for the race's first year, but only if it is staged downtown.

The promoter will have to pay for concrete dividers, fencing, hospitality suites and bleachers -- a tab that costs millions more, said Paul Krutko, director of the Office of Economic Development.
 
Anyway....Here's todays...

Legs Tuesday 11-23-04



Squats

1st set, did 10 reps at 85 lbs

2nd set, did 10 reps at 85 lbs

3rd set, did 10 reps at 95 lbs



Leg Press

1st set, 10 reps at 85 lbs

2nd set, 10 reps at 100 lbs

3rd set, 10 reps at 115 lbs



SL Deadlifts (barbell)

1st set, 10 reps at 85 lbs

2nd set, 10 reps at 85 lbs

3rd set, 8 reps at 95 lbs







Calf Raises

1st set, 10 reps at 115 lbs

2nd set, 10 reps at 130 lbs

3rd set, 10 reps at 150 lbs


Leg Curls

1st set, 10 reps at 80 lbs



After all this, ran 1 mile



Definately doing more on this week than last on leg press and calf raises, wasn't really sure how far I could go the first week, I could still probably go more on those next week too so I'll aim for a bit more.


One of my friends at school is unbelievable, he can do a total of 26 45lbs discs on calf raises. That's around .5 tons ! Makes me feel so far behind.
 
Something to keep in mind, if you are hitting 10 reps on each and every single set, are you really trying that hard? I would expect to see some 8s or 9s in there from time to time. I see you hit 8 on one of the SLDL sets.

Not trying to get you injured here, just something to think about. I try to keep it in mind because self torture is easily forgotten.
 
Sean, Mudge is right, although you are still early in the program and still probably get a feel for the exercises and weights, but like he said......something to start thinking about.

You'll know when your'e starting to lift heavy when you get less reps at the same weight on 2nd and 3rd sets.

eg: You did:

Squats

1st set, did 10 reps at 85 lbs
2nd set, did 10 reps at 85 lbs
3rd set, did 10 reps at 95 lbs

Soon, you'll probably find it's more like this:

Squats

1st set, did 10 reps at 125 lbs
2nd set, did 8 reps at 125 lbs
3rd set, did 9 reps at 115 lbs

................if you know what I'm getting at.

Still, looks like you're progressing and getting the idea. WELL DONE :clap:
 
..........mmmmmmmmmmmm your friends not one of those folk who pack 16 plates on the leg press and do reps that hardly even bend their legs is he?
The same type who try to do squats and again hardly go 1/3 way down?

.......just asking. I mean 26 x 45 is impressive no doubt.
 
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