Best dumbell curl for biceps?

[CowPimp]

Well Cowpimp says he likes to do pulling movements for biceps.

I don't see how you can work your biceps in pulling movements unless you're doing lat pulldown or cable row or some back exercises.

Which brings me to my next point how do you work your biceps w/o working your back?

The biceps are solely worked through various bicep curls. I've never heard of or seen bicep exercises done with pulling exercises which makes me wonder if he made it up?

Rows and pulldowns are both pulling movements. Think about it. I am referring to back exercises which involve pulling motions: pullups, pulldown, and rows of various forms.

 

[CowPimp]

What you're saying is that the back exercises are just as efficient for building the biceps as bicep exercises are?

Yes, they can be. Just like how the close grip bench press is excellent at increasing strength and mass in your triceps. This is a compound push movement. Close grip chinups are a compound pull movement that requires a lot of bicep recruitment.

You're opening up a huge can of worms here: Are compound or isolation movements better? I like compound movements better, but you can do 9 sets of various curls if you want.

As I said before, isolation movements have their place, but I find it silly to do just as many sets for a muscle group as small as the biceps as you do for a muscle group like the chest, shoulders, or quadriceps.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

Weighted (palm up) Chinups offer the same benefit of any curl, in my opinion...my bodyweight plus the poundage hanging around my waist is enough all week for my biceps.

 

[Johnnny]

CowPimp

Rows and pulldowns are both pulling movements. Think about it. I am referring to back exercises which involve pulling motions: pullups,
pulldown, and rows of various forms.

Yes they are excellent "Back" exercises as you say so you shouldn't be counting on them to build your biceps.


Duncans Donuts

Weighted (palm up) Chinups offer the same benefit of any curl, in my opinion...my bodyweight plus the poundage hanging around my waist is enough all week for my biceps.

True, but when many ppl reach a certain body weight, chins become difficult.

There are many 210 & 230+lb guys who won't do any form of chins b/c of the strain it puts on your biceps & inner elbows.

There are many other bicep exercises that will build the bi's much greater than chins using the biceps such as standing barbell curls or DB curls, standing, seated or incline hammer curls, preacher or concentration curls, & various cable curls are much better IMO to build the biceps.

As for wide grip chins for back, there are many other back exercises that will build up the back just as well if not much better such as Dorian Yate's style barbell rows, wide grip cable rows, & wide grip T-Bar Rows & so on.

 

[CowPimp]

CowPimp



Yes they are excellent "Back" exercises as you say so you shouldn't be counting on them to build your biceps.


Duncans Donuts



True, but when many ppl reach a certain body weight, chins become difficult.

There are many 210 & 230+lb guys who won't do any form of chins b/c of the strain it puts on your biceps & inner elbows.

There are many other bicep exercises that will build the bi's much greater than chins using the biceps such as standing barbell curls or DB curls, standing, seated or incline hammer curls, preacher or concentration curls, & various cable curls are much better IMO to build the biceps.

As for wide grip chins for back, there are many other back exercises that will build up the back just as well if not much better such as Dorian Yate's style barbell rows, wide grip cable rows, & wide grip T-Bar Rows & so on.

Look, as I said, you can do all the isolation exercises you want. I'm just saying that I see plenty of progress without them.

 

[Johnnny]

CowPimp

Look, as I said, you can do all the isolation exercises you want. I'm
just saying that I see plenty of progress without them.

So you think that Arnold built his biceps with just doing back exercises & no standard bicep exercises & of course the obvious the help of his steroids?

Let me ask you this what is your ideal bicep routine?

Chin ups, barbell rows & T-Bar rows?

 

[Tha Don]

DimebagDarrell



Really I didn't know that your biceps come greatly while doing back.

Which is exactly why I don't do back or biceps the same day or on back to back days.

But you don't want to be trying to get a complete bicep workout from your back day. You want to get a bicep workout on bicep day.

your biceps can still get a solid workout on back day, which is the reason why training back and biceps on the same day makes a lot of sense!

 

[Tha Don]

Let me ask you this what is your ideal bicep routine?

Chin ups, barbell rows & T-Bar rows?

stick some barbell curls on the end and thats a great workout for adding mass to you back and BICEPS

stop being so narrow minded man! there is no right or wrong way to do things different techniques will work for different individuals, what worked for arnie will not necessarily work for 99% of the genetically average population, if it did then everyone would be working out for 4 hours a day 6 days a week! c'mon drop the bullshit

 

[Tha Don]

Yes, they can be. Just like how the close grip bench press is excellent at increasing strength and mass in your triceps. This is a compound push movement. Close grip chinups are a compound pull movement that requires a lot of bicep recruitment.

You're opening up a huge can of worms here: Are compound or isolation movements better? I like compound movements better, but you can do 9 sets of various curls if you want.

As I said before, isolation movements have their place, but I find it silly to do just as many sets for a muscle group as small as the biceps as you do for a muscle group like the chest, shoulders, or quadriceps.

not saying that i disagree with you, but i find isolation exercises very useful as i have long thin muscles (ecto frame) and i need to throw in a couple of isolation movements at the end of my workout as i can use full ROM and get a really good stretch and squeeze in my muscle (the mind muscle technique works great for isolation movements, which is another technique i swear by)

thing is cowpimp has what works for him and thats cool, i have what works for me and thats cool... we don't bitch over every little minute detail and try to be mr. know it all like johnny

seriously your arrogance gets annoying man!

 

[dbolman]

The question in general is whether compound or isolation, or both, is best for any muscle, not just bis. Maybe some muscles repond better to different techniques-isolation for some, compound for others.

Nothing better for thighs than compound-squats, leg presses, IMO.

For tris, CGB does nothing for me, isolation exercises much better.

 

[CowPimp]

CowPimp



So you think that Arnold built his biceps with just doing back exercises & no standard bicep exercises & of course the obvious the help of his steroids?

Let me ask you this what is your ideal bicep routine?

Chin ups, barbell rows & T-Bar rows?

What does Arnold have to do with anything? I don't care what Arnold did. His training methods have no bearing on a totally natural lifter.

Stop arguing with me. I said you can do what you want. I even said isolation exercises have their place. I just think it's silly when people use the same amount of volume with isolation bicep exercises as they do with much larger muscle groups. It doesn't make any sense. If you are going to do isolation exercises, just make sure you are careful with your volume because your biceps take quite a beating in most back exercises.

 

[Johnnny]

Young d

you biceps can still get a solid workout on back day, which is a reason why training back and biceps on the same day makes a lot of sense!

No offense but this is a big no no.

By the time you finish with your back, due to all the rowing & pulling exercises, your biceps will certainly not be fresh & you won't be able to lift to your potential which you always need to help cause growth as lifting heavy & properly puts on size no matter the muscle.

Any time you put targeted pressure on that muscle, it will grow.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

Young d



No offense but this is a big no no.

Wrong

 

[CowPimp]

Young d



No offense but this is a big no no.

By the time you finish with your back, due to all the rowing & pulling exercises, your biceps will certainly not be fresh & you won't be able to lift to your potential which you always need to help cause growth as lifting heavy & properly puts on size no matter the muscle.

Any time you put targeted pressure on that muscle, it will grow.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lifting back and biceps together. Plenty of respectable training protocols use this type of split. There is more than one way to train successfully.

As well, any time you put targeted pressure on a muscle, it will not necessarily grow. There are a lot of factors involved that determine whether or not hypertrophy will occur.

 

[MTN WARRIOR]

CowPimp



So you think that Arnold built his biceps with just doing back exercises & no standard bicep exercises & of course the obvious the help of his steroids?

Let me ask you this what is your ideal bicep routine?

Chin ups, barbell rows & T-Bar rows?

Dude, WTF. Cowpimp is saying what works for him, and to do what you choose. He isn't going off on any tangent. WTF does Arnold have to do with it. That made no sense dragging him into it. Shut the fuck up.

 

[MTN WARRIOR]

Young d



No offense but this is a big no no.

By the time you finish with your back, due to all the rowing & pulling exercises, your biceps will certainly not be fresh & you won't be able to lift to your potential which you always need to help cause growth as lifting heavy & properly puts on size no matter the muscle.

Any time you put targeted pressure on that muscle, it will grow.

Lift to your potential, who cares. Muscle growth is based on time under tension. Whatever tension that you provide that is "shocking it" or overstressing it will help generate growth. If it is already exhausted from back work, it will be easier to push it past its limits. Who cares what number is written on the side of the DB, bonehead. God gave you 2 ears and only one mouth for a reason. Use it.

 

[Johnnny]

Duncans Donuts

Wrong

If that's soooo wrong than why do the majority of the ppl complain that they have weak biceps after they just finished a 50min back workout & to their surprise the times that they have trained biceps away from their back day, their biceps are much stronger?

It makes perfect sense. Your biceps get burnt out from all the rowing & pulling exercises for the back so that by the time you start your biceps, you've already strained them

I used to do this when I was 18yrs old & since I stopped when I was 20yrs old my bicep workouts were always much better, stronger & the biceps got much more pumped.

Most bodybuilders natural & steroid enhanced will tell not to train biceps & back on the same day or on back to back days.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

Johnnny, when I do weighted chin ups, including my bodyweight, my biceps are involved in moving about 300 pounds. That is more than enough to stimulate growth...

 

[Johnnny]

Duncans Donust

Johnnny, when I do weighted chin ups, including my bodyweight, my biceps are involved in moving about 300 pounds. That is more than enough to stimulate growth...

I guess narrow reverse grip chin ups okay for building the biceps, but I wouldn't replace bicep exercises for this exercise.

It sounds like you have something against a regular bicep routine.

Many natural & steroid enhanced bodybuilders will also tell you that either form of chin ups aren't always worth doing.

I don't see many big body builders (steroids or not) doing chin ups. Nor do I see power lifters & wrestlers doing chin ups either form, wide or reverse narrow grip.

 

[CowPimp]

If that's soooo wrong than why do the majority of the ppl complain that they have weak biceps after they just finished a 50min back workout & to their surprise the times that they have trained biceps away from their back day, their biceps are much stronger?

It makes perfect sense. Your biceps get burnt out from all the rowing & pulling exercises for the back so that by the time you start your biceps, you've already strained them

I used to do this when I was 18yrs old & since I stopped when I was 20yrs old my bicep workouts were always much better, stronger & the biceps got much more pumped.

Most bodybuilders natural & steroid enhanced will tell not to train biceps & back on the same day or on back to back days.

Obviously your biceps are going to be weaker after you are finished with your back, but they were just used to their full potential on your back exercises, so it is unnecessary.

Most bodybuilders will not tell you that. Stop making things up. Plenty of bodybuilders: professional, non-competitive, juiced, and natural support a synergistic split. Yes, a lot of people also prefer an antagonistic split, but there is plenty of support in both camps.

I never said there is anything wrong with an antagonistic split. It is perfectly fine. However, there is also nothing wrong with a synergistic split. Both splits are viable, period.

 

[Duncans Donuts]

I don't care what a bodybuilder would tell me, honestly. Placing the bicep into a strongest position doing chinups is fantastic for your biceps.

I haven nothing against a regular bicep routine, I do one set of either concentrated curls or straight barbell curls in addition to weighted chins once or twice a week. I dont' do more because if I did, I'd be overtrained.

 

[CowPimp]

Duncans Donust



I guess narrow reverse grip chin ups okay for building the biceps, but I wouldn't replace bicep exercises for this exercise.

It sounds like you have something against a regular bicep routine.

Many natural & steroid enhanced bodybuilders will also tell you that either form of chin ups aren't always worth doing.

I don't see many big body builders (steroids or not) doing chin ups. Nor do I see power lifters & wrestlers doing chin ups either form, wide or reverse narrow grip.

There are plenty of bodybuilders who do chinups and pullups. Don't just make things up. One very large bodybuilder on this site that I can think of off the top of my head is Chris Mason.

Wrestlers do plenty of chinups, actually. I used to be on a wrestling team, and I have known plenty of people on various wrestling teams. Multiple people I knew placed high in state competitions. Just about all of them do chinups.

It is true that powerlifting routines don't often call for chinups. However, this has nothing to do with the ineffectiveness of the exercise. It has to do with the transmutation of training benefits. You see, the bench press is on the same plane of motion as rowing motions, not chinups. So, the transmutation of training effect from rows to the bench press is much greater. It has nothing to do with hypertrophy or lack of conditioning effects.

 

[CowPimp]

I don't care what a bodybuilder would tell me, honestly. Placing the bicep into a strongest position doing chinups is fantastic for your biceps.

I haven nothing against a regular bicep routine, I do one set of either concentrated curls or straight barbell curls in addition to weighted chins once or twice a week. I dont' do more because if I did, I'd be overtrained.

Exactly! Isolation bicep movements are fine, but most people just get ridiculous with the volume they use.

 

[Tha Don]

Duncans Donust



I guess narrow reverse grip chin ups okay for building the biceps, but I wouldn't replace bicep exercises for this exercise.

It sounds like you have something against a regular bicep routine.

Many natural & steroid enhanced bodybuilders will also tell you that either form of chin ups aren't always worth doing.

I don't see many big body builders (steroids or not) doing chin ups. Nor do I see power lifters & wrestlers doing chin ups either form, wide or reverse narrow grip.

just shut up man! that statement is ridiculous... plenty of big guys do chin-ups, duncan just said he dose chin's n' he is 300lbs... then you go n' reply with a silly statement like no big guys do chin-ups.. when you know there are plenty of big guys that do chins with good results

 

[Tha Don]

Lift to your potential, who cares. Muscle growth is based on time under tension. Whatever tension that you provide that is "shocking it" or overstressing it will help generate growth. If it is already exhausted from back work, it will be easier to push it past its limits. Who cares what number is written on the side of the DB, bonehead. God gave you 2 ears and only one mouth for a reason. Use it.

well said man!

 

[Johnnny]

young d

just shut up man! that statement is ridiculous... plenty of big guys do chin-ups, duncan just said he dose chin's n' he is 300lbs... then you go n' reply with a silly statement like no big guys do chin-ups.. when you know there are plenty of big guys that do chins with good results

Man you don't know what is going on.

Duncans is not 300lbs he is around 230lbs. He said he uses 300lbs for reverse narrow grip chin ups.

Quote from Duncans which states he uses 300lbs for reverse narrow grip chins

Johnnny, when I do weighted chin ups, including my bodyweight, my biceps are involved in moving about 300 pounds. That is more than enough to stimulate growth...

As for wrestlers I have happen to have met, had conversations with, & trained a tiny bit with the following ppl, RVD, Shelton Benjamin, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Ray Mysterio, & John Cena. As the wrestlers always come to my gym when they're in Montreal.

They rarely do chin ups of any kind & they strictly follow regular bicep routine & don't rely on barbell rows or other back exercises to build their biceps.

They have good training adivce (other than just taking steroids)

Chris Benoit gave me an example of one of his favorite routines, & to my surprise it was very similar to one of my football routines.

 

[Rocco32]

You are soooooooooo full of shit Johnnny! I doubt you even work out at all, much less train with wrestlers! I agree 100% with DD and young D on this. As do other BB's.

 

[Johnnny]

rock4832

You are soooooooooo full of shit Johnnny! I doubt you even work out at all, much less train with wrestlers! I agree 100% with DD and young D
on this. As do other BB's.

Man all I can say is that you are sooo full of shit that it's coming out of your mouth.

I said that I have trained a tiny bit with some of the WWE wrestlers meaning once or twice over the last couple of years since I joined this gym as they always come to this gym when in Montreal.

As for your comment about me not training, just BS from someone with nothing else better to say. You really sound stupid with this comment.

 

[Rocco32]

Now how am I full of shit?!? I don't go around claiming all these outrageous things with absolutely no proof to back them up. And as for your training, put up some pics! Join the IM Comp! You've lost any credibility (not that you ever had any) since you won't step up to the plate. So take your bullshit advice and ram it up your ass!

 

[CowPimp]

As for wrestlers I have happen to have met, had conversations with, & trained a tiny bit with the following ppl, RVD, Shelton Benjamin, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Ray Mysterio, & John Cena. As the wrestlers always come to my gym when they're in Montreal.

They rarely do chin ups of any kind & they strictly follow regular bicep routine & don't rely on barbell rows or other back exercises to build their biceps.

They have good training adivce (other than just taking steroids)

Chris Benoit gave me an example of one of his favorite routines, & to my surprise it was very similar to one of my football routines.

Now I know you're full of shit. Why is it that every time there is a discrepancy involving you, you claim that your gym is some magical place that attracts all kinds of professional athletes and/or regular gym goers that could probably compete professionally? Give me a break. You then proceed to make up information about their training routines. You need to learn more about training for sports before you make up BS about professional athlete's training routines. At least make your lies believable.

Wrestling training hardly incorporates direct bicep training like that. That is just stupid. Wrestling training is not like bodybuilder training. They need speed, explosive power, flexibility, stamina, and they need to maintain a weight class. They're not worried about how big the peaks of their biceps are. They don't want to gain mass unless they are a heavyweight, or they are trying to compete in a higher weight class. Even then, direct bicep work, although it may be used sparingly, is going to be a waste of their time compared to cleans, snatches, squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows, and other heavily compound exercises.

Beyond this, wrestlers do a lot of bodyweight training. Stamina and muscular endurance is a huge part of wrestling. Those 6 minutes are the most intense 6 minutes you will ever endure if you go up against someone that is closely matched to you.