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Best pct

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liftshit0409

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I just wondering which pct would be best for this cycle.
Wk1-10 test p 500mgs a wk
Wk1-10 tren ace 300mgs a wk
Wk4-10 winny 50mg a day
I was thinking something like this...
Weeks 1-4- 40 mg Nolva per day
Weeks 1-4 100mg Clomid per day
Weeks 1-5 .5mg Anastrozole per day
Week 1- 4,500 iu HCG
Week 2- 3,000 iu HCG
Week 3- 1,500 iu HCG

And do I need to run cabaser?
 
Run your HCG at 500iu's twice a week during your cycle. Should not run HCG once the ester's clear your system. I would run caber E3D while your running the Tren. Run your AI E2D throughout your cycle and all through your PCT. I would dose the Clomid as follows:
W1 - 100mg per day
W2 - 75mg per day
W3 &4 - 50mg per day.
 
People simply run Clomid too high, which is more than likely related to the reports of sides. 50mg will do. If you want to start heavy, do 100 for a few days and then goto 50 for 4 weeks.

The key is to get pharmacy grade Clomid, your overseas shops will have it.

I have done the testosterone recovery stack and 50mg of Clomid with every cycle I have run (cycle length running from 6 weeks up to 12 weeks), Never had any problems recovering (and I am talking bloodwork recovery, not just "I feel good" recovery.)
 
liftshit0409 said:
I just wondering which pct would be best for this cycle.
Wk1-10 test p 500mgs a wk
Wk1-10 tren ace 300mgs a wk
Wk4-10 winny 50mg a day
I was thinking something like this...
Weeks 1-4- 40 mg Nolva per day
Weeks 1-4 100mg Clomid per day
Weeks 1-5 .5mg Anastrozole per day
Week 1- 4,500 iu HCG
Week 2- 3,000 iu HCG
Week 3- 1,500 iu HCG

And do I need to run cabaser?
Click to expand...


  • Cabergoline should not be run during PCT, but rather concurrently with trenbolone, to control prolactin levels.
  • Anastrazole should not be be run during PCT, but rather concurrently with any aromatizing compound (in this case, test prop).
  • HCG should not be run during PCT, as it will hinder recovery by suppressing the HPTA. Reports differ on what protocol is most effective, but I've found optimal results with moderate doses of HCG throughout an entire cycle, beginning to end.
  • Aromasin (not anastrazole!) should be used during PCT at 12.5mg ED.
  • Drop the Nolvadex (unless you already have it on hand, in which case go ahead and use it).

A few daily supplements worth taking during PCT:

5-10g Creatine
2-3g Vitamin C
5,000iu Vitamin D
1,000iu Vitamin E
 
liftshit0409 said:
I just wondering which pct would be best for this cycle.
Wk1-10 test p 500mgs a wk
Wk1-10 tren ace 300mgs a wk
Wk4-10 winny 50mg a day
I was thinking something like this...
Weeks 1-4- 40 mg Nolva per day
Weeks 1-4 100mg Clomid per day
Weeks 1-5 .5mg Anastrozole per day
Week 1- 4,500 iu HCG
Week 2- 3,000 iu HCG
Week 3- 1,500 iu HCG

And do I need to run cabaser?
Click to expand...

I would drop arimidex to 0.25mgs.
 
BBPowder said:
It is only needed for very few people. Maybe 1-3%


bbpowder@securenym.net

Ask for price and product list!!!
Click to expand...

Source?

I didn't tell him he needed it. He asked about it for his PCT, where it doesn't serve its intended purpose. If he's concerned about progesterone-related sides, caber belongs in his cycle not his PCT.
 
Last edited:
malfeasance said:
Then why does everybody here recommend prami or caber with tren?
Click to expand...

Because too many people recommend stuff based on what they heard. When this happens, a couple people can say something incorrect, and the misinformation spreads quickly. Once enough people are saying it, everyong thinks it is true.

Most will tell you that prolactin is the cause of Tren's gyno, and it is not.
 
malfeasance said:
OK, I do not get what this study tells us about this issue. For one thing they were administering oestradiol along with the tren, that is, the livestock version. But I do not understand what this has to do with prolactin and tren gyno. Help me out.
Click to expand...

Reread the abstract. They administered solo tren as well. Solo tren administration did not have an effect in prolactin.
 
I would at a minimum have P-5-P on hand if you are running tren. A study is just that, a study, not everyone will have zero prolactin issues. Also, clomid dosed starting at 100 is simply because it jump starts test production and the half life carries it into week two at a high dose. I can see doing 5 days at 100, a few at 75 then dropping the dose or just use Torem that has less sides.
 
oufinny said:
I would at a minimum have P-5-P on hand if you are running tren. A study is just that, a study, not everyone will have zero prolactin issues. Also, clomid dosed starting at 100 is simply because it jump starts test production and the half life carries it into week two at a high dose. I can see doing 5 days at 100, a few at 75 then dropping the dose or just use Torem that has less sides.
Click to expand...

I won't counter the point on the Clomid dose, that is opinion and up to the person running it.

I will counter the tren comment though. I have yet to see a single piece of bloodwork show tren to increase prolactin. To me, to not accept the findings of a study would require proof on the other side, and it doesn't exist.
 
Progesterone upregulates prolactin receptor HOWEVER it doesnt appear to do so in breast tissue. In fact there is more of a relationship between elevated estrogen and prolactin that progesterone thats for sure. So while caber or prami may not be needed for gyno they certainly may be prudent for some other associated sides of elevated prolactin. The bottom line is manage estrogen when it comes to gyno, however there may be other reasons to use a dopamine agonist like prami or caber to control prolactin.
(This info is from 2 diff articles written by the late Nandi)

Also of note Dr Scally states in this article :
Med Hypotheses. 2009 Jun;72(6):723-8. Epub 2009 Feb 23.
Anabolic steroid -induced hypogonadism--towards a unified hypothesis of anabolic steroid action.
Tan RS, Scally MC.
Source HPT/Axis Inc., 1660 Beaconshire Road, Houston, TX 77077, USA.

That case study shows 100mgs clomid per day has been successfully use to reverse steroid induced andropause. He also states that clomid and nolva together are prob the most effective pct.

Thats enough for me to justify using 100mgs clomid at least in the first week of my pct. I like clomid 100/50/50/50 nlova 40 /20/20/20.
Note take serms before bed = experience little to no sides whatsoever.
Best of Luck.
 
HereToStudy said:
I won't counter the point on the Clomid dose, that is opinion and up to the person running it.

I will counter the tren comment though. I have yet to see a single piece of bloodwork show tren to increase prolactin. To me, to not accept the findings of a study would require proof on the other side, and it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

When you are in the middle of a run of tren or nandalone and your dick doesn't work, then you take something for prolactin control and in days it does again, no study is going to convince me that isn't the reason. I went through this 3 weeks ago...
 
oufinny said:
When you are in the middle of a run of tren or nandalone and your dick doesn't work, then you take something for prolactin control and in days it does again, no study is going to convince me that isn't the reason. I went through this 3 weeks ago...
Click to expand...


Oufinny, I don't know how to continue this argument if science is just brushed aside at the support of anecdote, so I should back out. Same reason I don't argue religion. Had you countered my point with "I was in the middle of tren and bloodwork showed greatly increased prolactin," then you would have a point. You used a dopamine receptor agonist, of course it was going to make sexual function increase. I provide a study stating that prolactin was not increased directly from Trenbolone. Not a single person here would be able to explain a mechanism in which prolactin is DIRECTLY increased by tren. Progesterone =/= Prolactin. I can even dig up comments by Patrick Arnold saying nearly the same thing.

I can nearly guarantee you that if your prolactin levels were increased, that your estrogen was significantly increased. I am not sure why I am going to bother quoting science again, but...

Estrogens modulate prolactin secretion in response to reproductive events through different mechanisms: amplification of mitotic activity of the lactotrophs, enhancement of prolactin gene transcription and translation through ERβ-receptor binding, indirect simulation of prolactin synthesis through VIP and OT gene expression enhancement. Estrogens have also an indirect stimulating action on prolactin release through inhibition of hypothalamic dopamine synthesis and reduction in the number of pituitary D[SUB]2[/SUB] receptors. The net effect is an elevation of prolactin levels through increase in amplitude of prolactin bursts, release and storage (Halbreich et al 2003).
Click to expand...



Source

So assuming your case was in fact increased estrogenic activity, which lead to an increase in prolactin (which again, we don't know, because bloodwork wasn't used to form a conclusion), you treated the second stage of the problem, and not the root cause. Discontinue the caber and you would still have the same problem.

Which all goes back to the point made by jimmyinkedup:

Control the estrogen.
 
Caber or Prami on hand at the least.
HCG NOT during pct but maybe the last 4-5 weeks of cycle leading upto pct at 500iu 2X a week.

PCT:
wk1-4 50mg ed clomid
wk1-4 20mg ed Tamox/nolva

I dont think you need it as high as you have it, and the cycle is fairly short not sure if you really need to hassle with the HCG BUT since tren is in there and a prog and they shut you down harder then most, HCG might be a good idea I guess.
 
HereToStudy said:
Oufinny, I don't know how to continue this argument if science is just brushed aside at the support of anecdote, so I should back out. Same reason I don't argue religion. Had you countered my point with "I was in the middle of tren and bloodwork showed greatly increased prolactin," then you would have a point. You used a dopamine receptor agonist, of course it was going to make sexual function increase. I provide a study stating that prolactin was not increased directly from Trenbolone. Not a single person here would be able to explain a mechanism in which prolactin is DIRECTLY increased by tren. Progesterone =/= Prolactin. I can even dig up comments by Patrick Arnold saying nearly the same thing.

I can nearly guarantee you that if your prolactin levels were increased, that your estrogen was significantly increased. I am not sure why I am going to bother quoting science again, but...





Source

So assuming your case was in fact increased estrogenic activity, which lead to an increase in prolactin (which again, we don't know, because bloodwork wasn't used to form a conclusion), you treated the second stage of the problem, and not the root cause. Discontinue the caber and you would still have the same problem.

Which all goes back to the point made by jimmyinkedup:

Control the estrogen.
Click to expand...

Not on caber, estrogen is not a problem as my AI negated that. It's like arguing over the andro series, just not something I deem worth the effort as we disagree as we both know already. Science is a guide not the be all and end all; many diseases would have all but been irradicated if that was the case.
 
oufinny said:
Not on caber, estrogen is not a problem as my AI negated that.
Click to expand...

Bloodwork showing that? You don't have to respond, I know answer. As for it not being Caber, then it was Prami (same argument), or a herb (which if It provided an immediate response I would probably argue placebo, but w/e).

oufinny said:
Science is a guide not the be all and end all; many diseases would have all but been irradicated if that was the case.
Click to expand...

This is where I back out of the argument. :jerkit:
 
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