Bicep training should be part of a weightlifting routine?

[P-funk]

Originally Posted by dAMvN
CowPimp, if you swear that by doing low volume and not targeting your bicep directly you could sculp big lean biceps, how come you dont have em?

Nice try but your argument doesn't really hold up. think about it, what is big to Pimp might not be big to you or I or anyone else and vice versa. If pimp started training with 13" arms and they grew to 16" well that is a hell of an improvement. Now, ofcourse they aren't 23" biceps like a pro bb'er but 3" of growth on a natural arm is awesome and he may not even have genetically great arms. So you really can't make an argument like that because you don't know where he came from to get where he is now.

 

[turbine5]

I don't think this biceps thing is a hard and fast rule...some need to do direct biceps work, some shouldn't do directed bicep work due to overtraining...there are probably good examples of each case working for people...and we will just go in circles arguing this point, whereas both sides can be right

on the other hand...I think this genetics excuse is thrown around too easily...when people don't get the results they are looking for, they are quick to throw out the "I don't have the genetics" excuse...work harder and smarter...learn what is best for your body and almost anything is achievable...

jmo

 

[P-funk]

Here is my take on it:

If you are a BB'er or training for physical gratification......do some bicep work

It you are a powerlifter training for a better bench press and deadlift.....do some bicep work.

If you are an olympic lifter.......don't wast your time on the bicep work.

If you just train for overal strength and don't give a shit......don't waste your time on bicep work but a little bit wont hurt you either.


can we all agree on this?

 

[Squaggleboggin]

I certainly can.

 

[GFR]

the other 5 %

I call bull shit on that......Mike did direct bicep work 3x a week.......then later droped it down to 2x a week.......read up kid

 

[GFR]

Actually, you're the one who tried to insult me. I wasn't trying to insult you. I just stated the fact that your arms are about the same size as mine, and you do lots of direct work I assume. My arms are just shy of 16".

Oh yeah, and physiques are subjective. I'm happy with mine, so your insults don't hurt me.

16 cold???? no a chance....unless your 6'8
my off the top of my head guess would be in the 14.5-15in range

 

[CowPimp]

Dipshit? dude dont let the lil internet get to you this is a FORUM so relax and chill how you talk 2 ppl. Fact of the matter is you wont have biceps if you dont train them. This is the most idiotic thread on this board. 0-5 sets of bicep is enough. OMG yea if your my freakin grandma. Listin "CowPimp" and the rest of you that keep holdin his nuts (all of you dont have biceps) keep doin what ur doing lets see whos gonna have bigger biceps and more defined arms in a few months.

You simply don't understand kinesiology. Guess what happens during elbow flexion? Your biceps contract. Whether or not you involve other muscles in this really doesn't matter. Your biceps are still capable of being overloaded along with the other muscles involved in the movement. Just because you don't do isolation movements doesn't mean you aren't working your biceps.

Oh and P.S for the record you guys that go along with the bullcrap "CowPimp" is feeding you, you guys obviously do not know that you dont train bicep one way. you need to attack it different ways. ways I dont even know. for example your peak and the bricials. i dont see how u can target these by putting plates on a barbell or workingout ur back. its plain stupid. so keep doin wut ur doing and lets compare in a few months.

The people that agree with me do so because it worked for them. They aren't magical fairies that I summoned from another dimension to prove my point. The zero/low volume approach works for a lot of people.

Oh yeah, and you can't target the peak of your bicep. That is genetically determined. You also can't "attack it different ways." Your bicep contracts the same no matter what the stimulus, save for the fact that it is more efficient when you have a supinated grip on the weight being moved. Oh yeah, and guess what? The brachialis gets trained during any movement involving elbow flexion as well.

 

[CowPimp]

16 cold???? no a chance....unless your 6'8
my off the top of my head guess would be in the 14.5-15in range

My left arm is like 15 3/4, my right arm is a 1/4 or so smaller. I'm talking flexed, but not pumped.

 

[MuscleM4n]

nice post cowpimp...put him in his place.

Hopefully has has now learnt something from you.

 

[CowPimp]

Here is my take on it:

If you are a BB'er or training for physical gratification......do some bicep work

It you are a powerlifter training for a better bench press and deadlift.....do some bicep work.

If you are an olympic lifter.......don't wast your time on the bicep work.

If you just train for overal strength and don't give a shit......don't waste your time on bicep work but a little bit wont hurt you either.


can we all agree on this?

I think that makes sense. All I was saying is that the low/no volume approach works for some people. Try it out. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't. I don't care. If you hit a plateau in arm size, then it is something to try.

 

[MuscleM4n]

This is the point i was trying to put across by making this thread and then people like god hand call me dumb...fantastic.

 

[P-funk]

This is the point i was trying to put across by making this thread and then people like god hand call me dumb...fantastic.

Having god hand call you dumb is probably the coolest thing that can happen to anyone! He is pretty much the dumbest person I have ever seen so I love when he goes on those rants and spells words incorrectly and makes an asshole out of himself.

 

[rangers97]

personally, I would rather be able to barbell row 225+ pounds and do chinups with 50pounds strapped to my waist than worry about doing endless sets of curls....

And do you think someone that can do the above movements would have small biceps??? I think not...

The only bicep movement that I would argue doing would be hammer curls, as that is kind of a "compound" movement as it gets the forearms and biceps as well, but it also gets the biceps in an entirely different way than the pulling exercises do, in my opinion...

 

[GFR]

My left arm is like 15 3/4, my right arm is a 1/4 or so smaller. I'm talking flexed, but not pumped.

Unless you have gained 20lbs of muscle since you took those pics.....no way.

I'll stick with -14.5 as my guess....15 was being overly nice.

 

[god hand]

but it also gets the biceps in an entirely different way than the pulling exercises do, in my opinion...

...................I can agree with that.

 

[MuscleM4n]

yes rangers good post; i would much rather prefer to be able to row 225lbs than be a bicep boy champion .... the hammer curl also trains the brachialis quite well.

 

[god hand]

Having god hand call you dumb is probably the coolest thing that can happen to anyone! He is pretty much the dumbest person I have ever seen so I love when he goes on those rants and spells words incorrectly and makes an asshole out of himself.

Make sure u dont train you biceps more than 3x a year! Dont wanna overtrain!

 

[P-funk]

Make sure u dont train you biceps more than 3x a year! Dont wanna overtrain!

I haven't trained biceps or bench press in months. Don't worry.

 

[Squaggleboggin]

I can do a yates row with more than my BW with perfect form for reps, which isn't too bad. You can't really say that my biceps are particularly weak considering the way the yates row is performed, and I never do direct work.

 

[rangers97]

i recently started doing the "yates row" just for the sole purpose of using more biceps...I've also started doing chinups instead of pullups...I figure the stronger I get on these movements, the stronger my biceps will get. Plus, now I only "need" to add a couple of sets of hammer curls a week and I am good to go.

I figure if I only do bench press, incline press, and dips to target my chest and tris, and right now I can bench over 300 1rm, and 275 for reps, and do dips with 120 lbs added to my belt, my triceps can't be accused of being small...so, the same should apply to biceps

 

[MuscleM4n]

chin-ups and pull-ups are not the same thing?

forgive my ignorance but i thought they were just different names given?

 

[P-funk]

chin-ups and pull-ups are not the same thing?

forgive my ignorance but i thought they were just different names given?

chin ups= under hand

pull ups= over hand

 

[MuscleM4n]

ohh.

In that case i have always been doing close grip chin-ups and wide grip pull-ups.

 

[dAMvN]

lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.

 

[Yanick]

lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.

since you spelled it wrong before, i wasn't sure which muscle you were talking about so i pretty much found the 3 muscles, read the comments and look at the function of the muscles, they all do the same thing...except like it says, you can put one of those muscles at a disadvantage biomechanically and shift more emphasis on another one (ie hammer curls vs bicep curls).

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachialis.html

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/Brachioradialis.html

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/BicepsBrachii.html

 

[CowPimp]

lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.

No, you don't need concentration curls, or any other specialized movements. The brachialis is involved in elbow flexion. However, as Yanick said, the muscles have their most efficient line of pull depending on the orientation of the wrist.

What I look like doesn't make me wrong or right. You need to stop resorting to insults when you don't know what you're talking about. It's very unbecoming. Not to mention, I have 25 pounds on you with only a small height advantage, so gain some weight before you talk shit. Talk all the trash you want when you can back it up, hypocrite.

 

[Yanick]

lol okay cowshit, lol u dont train ur bracials by doing just any bicep movement. You need concentration curls and other sort of exe. goes to show u dont know shit. sides u wouldint know because u dont even have a bracials LOL goes to show ur lil bicep theroy is crap. dude keep lookin like a holocaust suvivor not my problem.

post a picture of your legs.

 

[SuperFlex]

If you want the biggest arms possible you need to train arms... HARD!!!

However with that said I've decided to try training without directly working arms do to this site. I'm just getting back into the gym and so far my arms have easily re-gained an inch plus in about a month. However that is simply muscle memory. But with that said things seem to be going quite well for the cannons without any direct training whatsoever. We'll see. I left off with 18 3/4 guns so if I surpass that without direct training I'll be hooked.

Only makes since that training arms will produce the greatest possible results but I could be wrong. I bet you'll never see Ronnie Coleman miss an arm workout............................................................

 

[HardTrainer]

I call bull shit on that......Mike did direct bicep work 3x a week.......then later droped it down to 2x a week.......read up kid

Post a link to that plz

Workout 1
Pec Deck 6 to 10 reps
With no rest do Incline Press 2 to 4 reps

Close Grip (Palm Up) Lat Pulldowns 6 to 10 reps

Deadlift 5 to 8 reps.

Rest at least 3 days.

Workout 2
Leg Extension 8 to 15 reps
With no rest do Leg Press 8 to 15 reps

Calf Raise 12 to 20 reps

Rest at least 3 days.

Workout 3
Dumbell Laterals 6 to 10 reps

Rear Laterals 6 to 10 reps.

Barbell Curls 6 to 10 reps.

Tricep Pressdowns 6 to 10 reps.
With no reps do Dips 3 to 5 reps.

Rest at least 3 days.

Workout 4
Leg Extentions 8 to 15 reps
With no rest do Squat 8 to 15 reps.

Calf Raise 12 to 20 reps.

Rest at least 3 day

The Routine:

Day 1 Chest and Back
DB flyes supersetted with flat or incline DB press
DB pullovers supersetted with reverse grip barbell rows
Deadlifts

Day 5 Legs
Leg Extensions supersetted with Squats
Calf raises

Day 9 Delts and Arms
DB side raises
DB rear delt laterals
Barbell Curls
Lying French Press supersetted with Dips

Day 13 Legs
Same exercises as Day 5, Legs

Day 17
Repeat cycle, beginning with Day 1, Chest and Back

hardly 3 times a week , dorain yates did high volume in the beginning to for a few years... maybe you say he did 12 + sets for his biceps aswell (at some point in his life) much durining his life he did 2-3 per week!

 

[GFR]

Post a link to that plz

It's in Arthur Jones book and also in Mentzers........go read it, I can't spoon feed you all my knowledge.