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Big Back Training!

This drives me a bit bonkers! Read the following very carefully:

I never said GoPro's training method would not result in a nice back. I only said the number and variety of exercises he is recommending is not necessary to "optimize" one's back.

That's it, there is nothing more to it. GoPro was the one who decided to try to belittle me by intimating I am not a bodybuilder and therefore must not know as much as him about bodybuilding. He was wrong in that assertation.

I would be more than happy to rationally argue my perspective if he could refrain from personal insults. When I asked him to post a comparison of his back vs. mine I think it was within the realm of reasonable requests. I think we have similar heredity for building size and strength, therefore if his methods were as good as he espouses they should have resulted in a much better back than mine. In the end, he refuses to post a picture ostensibly because I am "not worth the trouble". Personally, I think it is because he knows the truth, my back is as good or better than his.
 
where are your pics? your gallery is empty.
 
whats the link to the video in his journal?
 
chris mason said:
This drives me a bit bonkers! Read the following very carefully:

I never said GoPro's training method would not result in a nice back. I only said the number and variety of exercises he is recommending is not necessary to "optimize" one's back.

That's it, there is nothing more to it. GoPro was the one who decided to try to belittle me by intimating I am not a bodybuilder and therefore must not know as much as him about bodybuilding. He was wrong in that assertation.

I would be more than happy to rationally argue my perspective if he could refrain from personal insults. When I asked him to post a comparison of his back vs. mine I think it was within the realm of reasonable requests. I think we have similar heredity for building size and strength, therefore if his methods were as good as he espouses they should have resulted in a much better back than mine. In the end, he refuses to post a picture ostensibly because I am "not worth the trouble". Personally, I think it is because he knows the truth, my back is as good or better than his.
Click to expand...
ok! :)
 
One more point of clarification. I think my back development from a pure muscle perspective is as good or better than his, he may be leaner than me. I have no idea about bodyfat unless he posts a picture or video.
 
I dont think GoPro insulted Chris in any way and I dont feel Chris insulted GoPro either. Just a regular debate on Ironmagazine about back develpment, nothing new.

I have to agree with Duncan/P-Funk on this one. I do not personally believe you need a huge variety of back work to get a fully developed back. While you may need more variety than say, chest or triceps, the back is just like any other group of muscles. Heavy weight, proper rest and proper DIET. DIET IS KEY.

I do agree with the assertion that the back is the most complex of muscle groups, but I dont see why the basics, combined with proper diet would do anything different for your back's appearance.

This of course isnt saying GoPro isnt getting great results with his P/RR/S workout program, but even that program would go nowhere with improper diet.
 
And honestly, who gives a fuq if the guy has back hair. To give someone hell about that is just petty and stupid. :) Heck, I wish I didnt have back hair. :(
 
I am not getting in the middle of this debate at all. But I do just want to say one thing, to gopro---I think that all Chris is saying in terms of posting pictures of your back, or training videos, etc.; is that it does wonders in terms of your credibility. I mean a lot of guys can talk big on a message board (not saying you do, or anything of the nature) but I think that having pictures, training videos, and things of the like can just prove that you are as credible as you claim to me.
 
camarosuper6 said:
I dont think GoPro insulted Chris in any way and I dont feel Chris insulted GoPro either. Just a regular debate on Ironmagazine about back develpment, nothing new.

I have to agree with Duncan/P-Funk on this one. I do not personally believe you need a huge variety of back work to get a fully developed back. While you may need more variety than say, chest or triceps, the back is just like any other group of muscles. Heavy weight, proper rest and proper DIET. DIET IS KEY.

I do agree with the assertion that the back is the most complex of muscle groups, but I dont see why the basics, combined with proper diet would do anything different for your back's appearance.

This of course isnt saying GoPro isnt getting great results with his P/RR/S workout program, but even that program would go nowhere with improper diet.
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alright two posts that are pointed in my direction,thats cool!!! :)
 
"As to the slandering anonymously, I ALWAYS use my REAL name." - chris mason

That was a joke. You know, they have pills that can help you with that.
 
camarosuper6 said:
And honestly, who gives a fuq if the guy has back hair. To give someone hell about that is just petty and stupid. :) Heck, I wish I didnt have back hair. :(
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cam, we have never exchanged words, please dont start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumb: :D :D it was a put down out of fustration, it was unlike me to do so! and again, read my other post! :)
 
cfs3 said:
"As to the slandering anonymously, I ALWAYS use my REAL name." - chris mason

That was a joke. You know, they have pills that can help you with that.
Click to expand...
I understand, but as a very wise individual once said, there is some truth in every "joke".

Anyway, I wasn't insulted by it and was not sure it was directed at me. I merely saw it as a chance to point out that I have never used anything but my real name on the net. It bugs me when people talk a lot of shit on the net and hide behind false names.
 
I understand, but as a very wise individual once said, there is some truth in every "joke".
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Thank you, the back hair comment was a joke!!!!!
i also watched your r-g 90 lb added wt chin up, that chris was impressive,it showed good form. :thumb: straight up !!!!!
 
I know weve never exchanged words, but hell man, if I see something I dont agree with I speak on it, and I'm sure you'd do the same.

I wasn't trying to get into any kinda beef with you man, just tellin how I see it.
:)
 
camarosuper6 said:
I know weve never exchanged words, but hell man, if I see something I dont agree with I speak on it, and I'm sure you'd do the same.

I wasn't trying to get into any kinda beef with you man, just tellin how I see it.
:)
Click to expand...
i respect that, same here, i was just doing the same!!!! :thumb: :thumb:
 
I think the whole comparison of one person's back to another is moot. There are far too many variables involved besides just training to say if one training method is better than another.

Have your diets been down pat for the entire duration of your training careers? How different are your genetics in terms of the potential for muscle size? How many different training protocols have you tried? How many different back routines have you done? The list goes on.

If Eric has a larger back than Chris, does it mean that he is right? Conversely, if Chris has a larger back than Eric, does it mean that he is right? I think the answer to both of these questions is no. Again, it all comes down to a pissing contest.

I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Some people might need a highly varied routine like the one that Gopro laid out to see good back development. Some people might simply need rows, chins, and deads to reach the same potential. The point is that Gopro has created a routine that is worth trying. If you don't like it, or it doesn't give you better results, then don't continue to use it. Take it for what it's worth people.
 
chris mason said:
This drives me a bit bonkers! Read the following very carefully:

I never said GoPro's training method would not result in a nice back. I only said the number and variety of exercises he is recommending is not necessary to "optimize" one's back.

That's it, there is nothing more to it. GoPro was the one who decided to try to belittle me by intimating I am not a bodybuilder and therefore must not know as much as him about bodybuilding. He was wrong in that assertation.

I would be more than happy to rationally argue my perspective if he could refrain from personal insults. When I asked him to post a comparison of his back vs. mine I think it was within the realm of reasonable requests. I think we have similar heredity for building size and strength, therefore if his methods were as good as he espouses they should have resulted in a much better back than mine. In the end, he refuses to post a picture ostensibly because I am "not worth the trouble". Personally, I think it is because he knows the truth, my back is as good or better than his.
Click to expand...

-First, in regards to another one of your posts...You think I was kidding about a competition? Nope, I wasn't. You want to pick a show and enter the same class...that would be awesome.

-Second...you are not a bodybuilder, as in competition bodybuilder. From everything I have seen you post about on WBB and here, I feel your expertise lies more in building strength and building a good base of size, but as far as competition bodybuilding...I don't think that is your expertise. I have trained for 15 competitions, and have trained others for another 50-60 shows, and know EXACTLY what it takes to polish the physique...and its not all diet.

-Third...I would bet my left nut that if YOU decided to enter a bodybuilding competition you would change your training program. I guarentee you would add in movements that you currently do not perform. I guarentee that more variety would enter into your training equation.

-As far as having the same heredity for building size and strength...doubt it friend. I bet you have far better genetics than me for adding muscle and getting strong. How much did you weigh in highschool? I weighed 125 lbs at a height of 5'11", which is how tall I am now. At one point I got up to 273 lbs and although I certainly was not lean, I was not fat either. Additionally, when I started, my max bench press was about 80 lbs. I eventually hit a single at 495. My genes pretty much suck. I got where I did from my approach to training and plain hard work. And by the way...as you know, I have never used steroids, and you have (yes, I know it was long ago, but you did at one time).

-And yes Chris...I repeat...you are NOT worth the trouble. Do you know the last time I took a pic of my physique? Good, neither do I b/c I have no need for it. I don't need to take videos of myself either...and I certainly do not need to break out my camera for the likes of you.

So, where does this leave us? The same place as usual...please just go about your business and do your thing. I have said a dozen times that I think you know your shit and I also think you have a good physique and are a strong guy. You can believe that your methods are good, great, better, best...I don't care...now go chill out and enjoy your day :)
 
gopro said:
-First, in regards to another one of your posts...You think I was kidding about a competition? Nope, I wasn't. You want to pick a show and enter the same class...that would be awesome.
Click to expand...
I think this says it all. That would be the ultimate challenge, so put up or shut up Chris (and I mean that in a nice way). If everyone relied on pics and vids to show off their physique, there wouldn't be a need for bodybuilding contests...

I really wish these debates wouldn't turn into pissing contests, but when you have differing opinions usually someone gets offended and feels the need to defend their position. Alas, that's human nature.
 
I bet you have far better genetics than me for adding muscle and getting strong.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't this be related to how long your muscle bellies are (how short your tendons are) and how well you can recover from the stress of exercise? I know you said you were 125 pounds in high school, but that isn't really good for evaluating your genetic capacity, is it? :confused:

I'm just wondering why you say you have poor genetics for muscle growth. Not questioning it per se, just curious.
 
GoPro, with respect to a bodybuilding competition it isn't going to happen. I have no plans to compete as a bodybuilder ever again (although I never say never). I competed in my youth and when I discovered the degree of drug use it would take to be competitive at the national level in the NPC and to eventually become an IFBB professional I opted out. How did I know the degree of use? I had friends who were at that level. You see, my personality is such that I do not wish to compete merely for the sake of competing. I want to be sure I have a chance to win. I also do not want to compete in some schmoe organization, I only want to compete with the best. I am not saying that I like this facet of my personality, it just is what it is.

When I was in college I seriously entertained the idea that I wanted to be an IFBB professional bodybuilder and felt that I had the heredity to do it (who knows if I was right or wrong) with drug use. With extremely limited drug use I weighed 240-250 lbs at 5'11" tall.

In any event, I made a decision at that age (not to even dabble in drugs) and have stuck to it.

Now, you mention competition, you have been using the name GoPro for several years now. I remember asking you about the name at least 2.5 years ago and you saying that you would be competing and turning pro very soon. You were weighing a natural 250 lbs and were fairly lean. What happened? Why have you not turned pro in one of those natural organizations you presumably compete in?
 
chris mason said:
GoPro, with respect to a bodybuilding competition it isn't going to happen. I have no plans to compete as a bodybuilder ever again (although I never say never). I competed in my youth and when I discovered the degree of drug use it would take to be competitive at the national level in the NPC and to eventually become an IFBB professional I opted out. How did I know the degree of use? I had friends who were at that level. You see, my personality is such that I do not wish to compete merely for the sake of competing. I want to be sure I have a chance to win. I also do not want to compete in some schmoe organization, I only want to compete with the best. I am not saying that I like this facet of my personality, it just is what it is.

When I was in college I seriously entertained the idea that I wanted to be an IFBB professional bodybuilder and felt that I had the heredity to do it (who knows if I was right or wrong) with drug use. With extremely limited drug use I weighed 240-250 lbs at 5'11" tall.

In any event, I made a decision at that age (not to even dabble in drugs) and have stuck to it.

Now, you mention competition, you have been using the name GoPro for several years now. I remember asking you about the name at least 2.5 years ago and you saying that you would be competing and turning pro very soon. You were weighing a natural 250 lbs and were fairly lean. What happened? Why have you not turned pro in one of those natural organizations you presumably compete in?
Click to expand...

Ok, so I guess we will not be meeting onstage...oh well...figured that. Anyway, in regard to your mention about my name gopro, and me turning pro. Here is one piece of info for you that you may find interesting...I earned my natural pro card in my early 20s in an organization called the ANPPC. I won it at a pro qualifier in Las Vegas, and it was truly awesome to do so. However, before I even had a chance to do my first pro show, they "closed shop." But what can you do. As far as my present pro efforts, it has not happened for one reason...I haven't competed again. Why? $ is the answer. I just opened a gym which I wanted to get established, started writing for magazines and websites, and then recently was headhunted to work for VPX and I sold my gym and moved. Now I am busier than ever. However, now that I am getting settled in I will target a show for 2005 and go for the pro card. And I will do it naturally even though at this point, the upper natural level shows are completely inundated with drugs........SAD.
 
JerseyDevil said:
I think this says it all. That would be the ultimate challenge, so put up or shut up Chris (and I mean that in a nice way). If everyone relied on pics and vids to show off their physique, there wouldn't be a need for bodybuilding contests...

I really wish these debates wouldn't turn into pissing contests, but when you have differing opinions usually someone gets offended and feels the need to defend their position. Alas, that's human nature.
Click to expand...

Would have been cool, huh?

And as far as Chris and I...this has always been the case.
 
GoPro, I am laughing a bit now. Why is it that when questioned about this VERY SAME topic on wbb you never mentioned being pro in any organization? Why did you say you would SOON be competing to turn pro and omit this new tidbit?

Now, as to your challenge and Jersey Devil's comments as well as yours. If anyone reading this had a modicum of intelligence they will realize I posted the first challenge which YOU declined. My challenge was VERY simple, it merely required you post a recent picture or video of your back on this site. How hard can that be? Your "challenge" on the other hand would require months of dieting, travel for at least one of us, and would provide either one of us the opportunity to drug ourselves up in order to prove a point. A much more unrealistic proposition. So, who here is the real pussy, the guy who will not accept the first, very simple challenge, or the guy who retorts with something he knows is not going to happen in order that he might look cool to his supporters?

I will now bow out of this particular back and forth regardless of how hard it may be not to retort when you respond to this post.

In the end I certainly don't think I have EVEN CLOSE to a great physique, but I DO think my physique is a nice example of what a natural (for 14+ years) trainee can do both in terms of size and strength (make that a natural trainee who is married with 3 kids and runs one medium sized business and is the co-owner of another smaller business).
 
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