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Cheney told CIA not to discuss program

Arnold

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Cheney told CIA not to discuss program
By PAMELA HESS

WASHINGTON ??? Former Vice President Dick Cheney directed the CIA eight years ago not to inform Congress about a nascent counterterrorism program that CIA Director Leon Panetta terminated in June, officials with direct knowledge of the matter said Saturday.

Subsequent CIA directors did not inform Congress because the intelligence-gathering effort had not developed to the point that they believed merited a congressional briefing, said a former intelligence official and another government official familiar with Panetta's June 24 briefing to the House and Senate Intelligence committees.

Panetta did not agree.

Upon learning of the program June 23 from within the CIA, Panetta terminated it and the next day called an emergency meeting with the House and Senate Intelligence committees to inform them of the program and that it was canceled.

Cheney played a central role in overseeing the Bush administration's surveillance program that was the subject of an inspectors general report this past week. That report noted that Cheney's chief of staff, David Addington, personally decided who in Bush's inner circle could even know about the secret program.

But revelations about Cheney's role in making decisions for the CIA on whether to notify Congress came as a surprise to some on the committees, said another government official. All spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the program publicly.

An effort to reach Cheney was unsuccessful.

A former intelligence official, who was familiar with former CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden's tenure at the CIA, said Hayden never communicated with the president or vice president about the now-canceled program and was under no restrictions from Cheney about congressional briefings. The official said Hayden was briefed only two or three times on the program.

Exactly what the counterterrorism program was meant to do remains a mystery. The former intelligence official said it was not related to the CIA's rendition, interrogation and detention program. Nor was it part of a wider classified electronic surveillance program that was the subject of a government report to Congress this past week.

The official characterized it as an embryonic intelligence gathering effort, and only sporadically active. He said it was hoped to yield intelligence that would be used to conduct a secret mission or missions in another country ??? that is, a covert operation. But it never matured to that point.

The government official with direct knowledge of the Panetta briefing and the former intelligence official said the CIA has numerous efforts ongoing under its existing authorities that have not yet been briefed to Congress. He said they are not yet known to be viable for intelligence gathering.

The Cheney revelation comes as the House of Representatives is preparing to debate a bill that would require the White House to expand the number of members who are told about covert operations. The White House has threatened a veto over concerns that wider congressional notifications could compromise the secrecy of the operations.

That provision, however, would have no effect on programs like this one.

The former intelligence official familiar with Hayden said Congress has a right to contemporaneous information about all CIA activities. But he said there are so many in such early stages that briefing Congress on every one would be too time consuming for both the CIA and the congressional committees.

The New York Times initially reported about Cheney's direction not to tell Congress of the program on its Web site Saturday.

source
 
more "who cares" IMO
 
more "who cares" IMO

Yes, "who cares" about how our agencies conduct themselves domestically and abroad. Let's just let them trample on the Constitution because "who cares" right?
 
"Exactly what the counterterrorism program was meant to do remains a mystery. The former intelligence official said it was not related to the CIA's rendition, interrogation and detention program. Nor was it part of a wider classified electronic surveillance program that was the subject of a government report to Congress this past week."



So WTF is it then?
 
I think any US citizen with a functioning brain does.

more likely ones with an overactive imagination, and an unhealthy fixation on past presidents actions.

one day i hope you come back to the middle prince. all of this conspiracy shit is getting old. you're jumping on every little anit-bush, anti-cheney thing you can get a hold of. this program didn't accomplish anything and never got off the ground. a new CIA director comes in and puts a stop to it because he doesn't like it. I can't imagine how many times this scenario has happened since the CIA started. But then it hasn't had bush's name tied to it so it just went away. big deal.
 
more likely ones with an overactive imagination, and an unhealthy fixation on past presidents actions.

one day i hope you come back to the middle prince. all of this conspiracy shit is getting old. you're jumping on every little anit-bush, anti-cheney thing you can get a hold of. this program didn't accomplish anything and never got off the ground. a new CIA director comes in and puts a stop to it because he doesn't like it. I can't imagine how many times this scenario has happened since the CIA started. But then it hasn't had bush's name tied to it so it just went away. big deal.

this is not about being anti-Bush or anti-Cheny dude, its much bigger than that and this whole case is going to be big, long and someone is in legal trouble, probably Cheney, and if you watch any type of news channel this is the biggest story, so its not like I had to go searching for it.
 
more "who cares" IMO
I do, these clowns are recycled every year. I don't know if he retired but hopefully they keep him far away.
Cheney has been around since 1969 serving under the impeached President Nixon.
How much of an influence does he still have?

Some things can not be swept under a carpet.
 
this is not about being anti-Bush or anti-Cheny dude, its much bigger than that and this whole case is going to be big, long and someone is in legal trouble, probably Cheney, and if you watch any type of news channel this is the biggest story, so its not like I had to go searching for it.

well said :clapping:

and if stuff like this has happened before someone has to be the first to be punished for it to stop or else it will keep happening...
 
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I do, these clowns are recycled every year. I don't know if he retired but hopefully they keep him far away.
Cheney has been around since 1969 serving under the impeached President Nixon.
How much of an influence does he still have?

Some things can not be swept under a carpet.
Exactly with all the underhanded manipulation of governmental agencies that Nixon and his gang took part in it doesn't surprise me the least little bit that Cheney was over stepping his authority trying to utilize agencies to achieve his own agenda......
 
Democrats push for probe into Bush policies

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama has been reluctant to probe Bush-era torture and anti-terrorism policies, but his Democratic allies aren't likely to let the matters rest.

"I've always preferred my idea of a commission of inquiry to look at all these issues," Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., said Sunday.

Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., head of the intelligence committee, suggested that the George W. Bush administration broke the law by concealing a CIA counterterrorism program from Congress.

The Wall Street Journal, anonymously citing former intelligence officials, reported Monday the secret program was a plan to kill or capture al-Qaida operatives.

The Journal's sources said the plan, which was halted by CIA Director Leon Panetta, was an attempt to carry out a presidential finding authorized in 2001 by President George W. Bush.

The Journal said the agency spent money on planning and maybe some training, but it never became fully operational. The plan was highly classified and the CIA has refused to comment on it.

The assertion that Vice President Dick Cheney ordered the program kept secret from Congress came amid word that Attorney General Eric Holder is contemplating opening a criminal probe of possible CIA torture.

A move to appoint a criminal prosecutor is certain to stir partisan bickering that could prove a distraction to Obama's efforts to push ambitious health care and energy reform.

Obama has resisted an effort by congressional Democrats to establish a "truth commission," saying the nation should be "looking forward and not backwards."

Regarding the 8-year-old counterterrorism program, Feinstein said the Bush administration's failure to notify Congress "is a big problem, because the law is very clear."

Congress should investigate the secrecy because "it could be illegal," Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said.

According to Feinstein, Panetta told Congress late last month that "he had just learned about the program, described it to us, indicated that he had canceled it and ... did tell us that he was told that the vice president had ordered that the program not be briefed to the Congress."

"We were kept in the dark. That's something that should never, ever happen again," said Feinstein.

Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, said he agreed with Feinstein that the CIA should keep Congress informed. But Cornyn said the new assertion "looks to me suspiciously like an attempt to provide political cover" to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats. Pelosi has accused the CIA of lying to her in 2002 about its use of waterboarding, or simulated drowning, which many people, including Obama, consider torture.

"This continued attack on the CIA and our intelligence gathering organizations is undermining the morale and capacity of those organizations to gather intelligence," said Republican Sen. Judd Gregg of New Hampshire.

Reports about the counterterrorism program, Cheney's role in directing its existence be kept from Congress and the attorney general's consideration of a special prosecutor came on the eve of Senate Judiciary Committee hearings for Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor.

A Justice Department official told The Associated Press that Holder will decide in the next few weeks whether to appoint a prosecutor to investigate the Bush administration's harsh interrogation practices. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on a pending matter.

In response to the report, Justice Department spokesman Matt Miller said Saturday that Holder planned to "follow the facts and the law" and noted that Holder has said that "it would be unfair to prosecute any official who acted in good faith based on legal guidance from the Justice Department."

Feinstein and Cornyn spoke on "Fox News Sunday." Durbin appeared on ABC's "This Week." Gregg spoke on CNN's "State of the Union." Leahy spoke on CBS' "Face the Nation."

source
 
This will go nowhere. democrats are talking tough on this now because it is the face saving thing to do. Remember in politics both sides are dirty. Any inquiry like this will implicate enough Democrats as well and nothing will happen.

Remember for all of Obama's tough talk against Bush policies once in power he kept a lot of them.
 
This will go nowhere. democrats are talking tough on this now because it is the face saving thing to do. Remember in politics both sides are dirty. Any inquiry like this will implicate enough Democrats as well and nothing will happen.

I know both sides are dirty, I don't take sides, I have said that about 100 times now.
 
Some things are secret for good reason.
 
I finally had time to look this up, and the "evidence" is a fucking joke. Have you actually seen it? It was a plot to kill Al Qaeda leaders that was never enacted. :lol:


This is nothing more than another attempt to distract from the fact that Obama's plan is failing.. because he had "incomplete information about the economy" :lol: What a true leader!
 
I finally had time to look this up, and the "evidence" is a fucking joke. Have you actually seen it? It was a plot to kill Al Qaeda leaders that was never enacted. :lol:


This is nothing more than another attempt to distract from the fact that Obama's plan is failing.. because he had "incomplete information about the economy" :lol: What a true leader!

I agree with you except for Obama's plan is failing. Here are my points:

1)The bailout money was not to be released immediately in it's entirety, it was to be released over 2 years. It's only been about 6 months.

2)The dow was 7949 when he got in to office, it's 8329 now, although it's too unstable to tell anything from those numbers, you certainly can't say that's a failure.

I don't think you can tell if it has failed or not, and won't be able to for some time, these jobs aren't being created over night. I don't think they will release another stimulus, at least not until this one has been fully released. As long as they hold off on more stimulus, I am cool as a cucumber, if they start spending more, I am going to be pissed.
 
I agree with you except for Obama's plan is failing. Here are my points:

1)The bailout money was not to be released immediately in it's entirety, it was to be released over 2 years. It's only been about 6 months.

2)The dow was 7949 when he got in to office, it's 8329 now, although it's too unstable to tell anything from those numbers, you certainly can't say that's a failure.

I don't think you can tell if it has failed or not, and won't be able to for some time, these jobs aren't being created over night. I don't think they will release another stimulus, at least not until this one has been fully released. As long as they hold off on more stimulus, I am cool as a cucumber, if they start spending more, I am going to be pissed.

Obama said if we didn't pass his pork bill, unemployment would reach 9%. The bill was passed, and we are at 9.5. Biden said they "underestimated" the state the economy, and now Obama says they "had incomplete information." They are making excuses for why their plan is not working.

They are pushing for Cap & Trade which is going to change this country forever. Also, I make less than 250,000 and my taxes are going up.. another Obama lie.

Raising taxes, reckless spending....Change looks pretty familiar.
 
Obama said if we didn't pass his pork bill, unemployment would reach 9%. The bill was passed, and we are at 9.5. Biden said they "underestimated" the state the economy, and now Obama says they "had incomplete information." They are making excuses for why their plan is not working.

They are pushing for Cap & Trade which is going to change this country forever. Also, I make less than 250,000 and my taxes are going up.. another Obama lie.

Raising taxes, reckless spending....Change looks pretty familiar.

Yes, but you have given it all of 5 minutes to work. I don't agree with a significant part of what he is doing, but I agreed with cutting taxes on the rich and see how well that stimulated the economy over the course of the last 8 years. Spending out of a recession has been shown to work, how do you think WWII pulled us out of the Great Depression? I see 2 significant problems with his plan:

1)A lot of the people who lost their jobs were making far more than what they will make working on Obama provided jobs. They will have to take the hit, or they are fucked. I doubt many of these people are going to take the jobs until they drain their unemployment, further increasing taxes on and dragging down employers.

2)He is too ambitious. We can't do all we need to do to fix the economy AND healthcare reform AND Cap and Trade.


I think healthcare reform and reducing emissions are both important, but we need to wait.

All of this is pretty funny as far as partisan politics go. I remember when GWB went in to Iraq and Rush was saying that we need to trust the president and wait it out, he is doing what is right for us, etc. Now, Obama has been in office for all of 6 months, and the same people are saying that his plan isn't working, and calling for his head. The same can be said about the troop surge with the Dems. Further proof that not thinking for yourself is more dangerous than not thinking at all.
 
I agree with you except for Obama's plan is failing. Here are my points:

1)The bailout money was not to be released immediately in it's entirety, it was to be released over 2 years. It's only been about 6 months.

2)The dow was 7949 when he got in to office, it's 8329 now, although it's too unstable to tell anything from those numbers, you certainly can't say that's a failure.

I don't think you can tell if it has failed or not, and won't be able to for some time, these jobs aren't being created over night. I don't think they will release another stimulus, at least not until this one has been fully released. As long as they hold off on more stimulus, I am cool as a cucumber, if they start spending more, I am going to be pissed.
I find you to be a bit more sanguine than I, but you make a couple of valid points
 
I find you to be a bit more sanguine than I, but you make a couple of valid points

I wouldn't say optimistic so much as I typically just don't give a shit. None of what is going on is going to affect me greatly, money really isn't a driving force to me. Look what people spend their money on...BMWs, $200 jeans, Britney Spears albums...Give me a case of good beer, some kine bud, and a fishing pole and I am content. Now, if we were actually driving towards a significant goal I would probably change my tune, but when people are willing to spend more of their time watching Entertainment Tonight to find out what Kim Kardashian is wearing than finding a way to fix our healthcare problem, I tend to detach.
 
Obama said if we didn't pass his pork bill, unemployment would reach 9%. The bill was passed, and we are at 9.5. Biden said they "underestimated" the state the economy, and now Obama says they "had incomplete information." They are making excuses for why their plan is not working.
At least they didn't start a war because of incomplete information.....
 
At least they didn't start a war because of incomplete information.....

thats a good way to measure his presidency......"well at least........."
 
I don't think you can tell if it has failed or not, and won't be able to for some time, these jobs aren't being created over night. I don't think they will release another stimulus, at least not until this one has been fully released. As long as they hold off on more stimulus, I am cool as a cucumber, if they start spending more, I am going to be pissed.
One of my friends is trying to get funding for a solar instruction biz and he said the paperwork is a job in itself. Things like that are making it slow to see the benefits, if any will be seen. A lot of people have great ideas to help boost the economy they just need some financing to see it through and that money has to be worked for by jumping through all the feds hoops. My friend told me that after he figures out how to do the paperwork properly he could probably get rich just holding classes on that.....
 
thats a good way to measure his presidency......"well at least........."
That's how people have been picking presidents, the lesser of the evils.....
 
Barack Obama's Stimulus Plan: Failing by Its Own Measure - TIME

Back in early January, when Barack Obama was still President-elect, two of his chief economic advisers — leading proponents of a stimulus bill — predicted that the passage of a large economic-aid package would boost the economy and keep the unemployment rate below 8%. It hasn't quite worked out that way. Last month, the jobless rate in the U.S. hit 9.5%, the highest level it has reached since 1983.
(See 10 ways your job will change.)

The two advisers who wrote the paper, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, went on to land key jobs in the Obama Administration. Romer is the head of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, and Bernstein is the chief economist and economic-policy adviser to Vice President Joe Biden. And the stimulus bill that both economists championed became law in mid-February. What has not come to pass, however, is the boom in job creation that Romer and Bernstein predicted. A little over a month ago, the Administration said the stimulus bill had created or saved 150,000 jobs. That's a far cry from the 3 million to 4 million jobs that Romer and Bernstein foresaw back in January.

Lawrence Summers, director of the White House's National Economic Council, said last week that the stimulus bill was on track. This past weekend, the President rejected calls for a second stimulus package, saying the current stimulus needs more time to work, since only a small fraction of the money has been spent. From the beginning, the Administration has said that much of the boost to the economy from the stimulus plan would not come until the second half of this year. Administration officials have also insisted that it's unfair to judge the effectiveness of the stimulus by projections they made back in January since the recession has turned out to be worse than what most economists predicted even just six months ago.

In a report released on July 13, Romer's Council of Economic Advisers says the stimulus bill is creating opportunities for workers in health care, education and energy. The report reiterates that the economists believe the stimulus plan will create 3.5 million jobs by the end of 2010. "The various forms of fiscal stimulus are expected to provide powerful upward pressure on aggregate demand and to aid recovery," Romer's group says.
(See 10 perfect jobs for the recession — and after.)

But while the stimulus plan may eventually reach its goal, a look at the paper Romer and Bernstein wrote back in January shows that at least for now, the stimulus plan is at best off to a slow start. The two economists did say in the report that they expect the bulk of the jobs created by the stimulus to happen in 2010 and 2011. Nonetheless, the report says that even by the middle of this year, the stimulus bill would have a positive effect on the unemployment rate. Without the stimulus, the two economists predicted, the unemployment rate would rise to around 8.5% by the middle of this year; add the stimulus, and that rate would drop by half a point. In reality, the unemployment rate is a full percentage point higher than what Romer and Bernstein predicted it would be without a stimulus.

Vincent Reinhart, a fellow at the right-leaning think tank the American Enterprise Institute and a former top economist at the Federal Reserve, says the problem with the stimulus bill is that it stimulates parts of the economy — like the health-care and alternative-energy industries — that were likely to grow anyway. He believes it would have been better to spend on U.S. manufacturing, where demand is much less certain to resurface and jobs are being shed rapidly. "I don't buy the argument that you just have to give the stimulus package more time," says Reinhart. "By the test they put forward to grade the stimulus, it is failing."
 
I don't know why economists even bother trying to predict anything, I think weathermen have a better accuracy ratio.

Regardless of what they say, 2010 at the earliest.
 
I only know what I see daily and the solar business has really started to rise more and more again.... We are starting to have issues with not being able to stock the major components faster than they are flying off the shelves, in fact we have shipments of stuff that come in and get tagged to go right back out, they don't even have a chance to sit in the warehouse overnight. We have 300 micro-inverters coming in and almost all of them are sold and they are still on the ship in the middle of the Pacific. This was one of Obama's priorities and we are just now starting to see a positive change.
 
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