Current workout + improvements...

[Big G]

holy fuck....this thread is retarded.

You don't need periodization at this age or in this stage of the game. All you need is progressive overload.

Thanks P for jumping in here. I hope you know that I (and presumably most others) honestly intend to offer the best advice we can when answering questions on here. Your knowledge and expertise is obviously unprecedented on this site and I'm sure I'm not alone in being thankful that you share your wisdom through this forum. Rest assured that when I suggested periodization above it was recommended with the best intentions.

Perhaps you were right when you told me to only ask questions on here and not try to help others. I've read and learned so much though over the past 18months of my training, sometimes I just can't help myself but offer some words that may be of benefit to others. At least, I suppose, there are numerous people on this site that would be able to correct, as you have here, any advice that I may have offered that is not up to par. Sometimes I hit the nail on the head but, if I miss, at least there's someone else there to hit it instead!

w/thx (again),
G.

 

[P-funk]

Thanks P for jumping in here. I hope you know that I (and presumably most others) honestly intend to offer the best advice we can when answering questions on here. Your knowledge and expertise is obviously unprecedented on this site and I'm sure I'm not alone in being thankful that you share your wisdom through this forum. Rest assured that when I suggested periodization above it was recommended with the best intentions.

Perhaps you were right when you told me to only ask questions on here and not try to help others. I've read and learned so much though over the past 18months of my training, sometimes I just can't help myself but offer some words that may be of benefit to others. At least, I suppose, there are numerous people on this site that would be able to correct, as you have here, any advice that I may have offered that is not up to par. Sometimes I hit the nail on the head but, if I miss, at least there's someone else there to hit it instead!

w/thx (again),
G.

youm intentions were good. a lot of things come with experience. sometimes, we want to help so much and offer as much info as we can (or as much info that we ourselves have available to us) that we go over the top and forget about the person we are dealing with. In this case, many will read the first post and automatically throw out some information that they preceive to be correct. It isn't that the info is not correct, it is that for this given case, it may not be the best information to give. You probably don't have much experience working with youths in a training facility, so you gave the info that you felt was appropriate. Sometimes we have just have to step back and look at all the information before giving out training or nutrition advice.

keep at it. the more you do it, the more you learn. the more you learn, the better you can help others.

 

[nathanlowe]

I think i am past working with body weight exercises to build my core as i understand, pound for pound im stronger then the majority of my school.

Would nothing work like
monday - bench, squat, dead, dips, pullups, millitary press, bent over row
Tuesday - Smaller isolation movements ?
Thursday - bench, squat, dead, dips, pullups, millitary press, bent over row

 

[P-funk]

i think the program you have there is not sufficient at all. it lacks organization and structure.


furthermore, we know nothing about you....goals, etc...how can anyone give you help if they know nothing about you? have you read the stickies yet?

 

[nathanlowe]

im 6ft tall and vary between 160 and 170pounds
i go to the gym monday, tuesday, thursday
im looking to gain strength

 

[nathanlowe]

If i cant commit to a day on, day off. With rugby training and gcse revision etc.

Would nothing work with doing bench, deads, squats 3 times a week ?>

Something like - monday
BENCH, Incline DB bench, Flys, Dips, Skull crushers, SQUATS

Tuesday - DEADS, BB Row, Seated Pully Row, Pullups, BB curls

Thursday - DEADS, BENCH ,SQUAT, Millitary Press, Shrugs

That would be concentrating on alot more compounds.

Maybe have monday and tuesday as Compounds with little isolation and on thursay something similar ?

 

[goob]

If i cant commit to a day on, day off. With rugby training and gcse revision etc.

Would nothing work with doing bench, deads, squats 3 times a week ?>

Something like - monday
BENCH, Incline DB bench, Flys, Dips, Skull crushers, SQUATS

Tuesday - DEADS, BB Row, Seated Pully Row, Pullups, BB curls

Thursday - DEADS, BENCH ,SQUAT, Millitary Press, Shrugs

That would be concentrating on alot more compounds.

Maybe have monday and tuesday as Compounds with little isolation and on thursay something similar ?

Keep it Simple.

Push:
Bench Press
Military press
Dips (leaning forward for chest)
Close grip bench press or tricep pushups.
Lat raise

Pull:
Deadlifts
Chin ups
Bent over rows
T-Bar rows
BB curls

Legs
Back Squats
Leg Press
Leg Ext
Good Mornings

Or something like that. Simple and balanced ( not brilliantly - but i'm not an expert).

No need to do squats 2 + times a week.

 

[P-funk]

I would do something like:

monday: lower strength
tuesday: upper strength
wed: off
thurs: total body muscular endurance/hypertrophy

 

[nathanlowe]

I would do something like:

monday: lower strength
tuesday: upper strength
wed: off
thurs: total body muscular endurance/hypertrophy

How would this look as in exercises, reps etc

 

[nathanlowe]

I would do something like:

monday: lower strength
tuesday: upper strength
wed: off
thurs: total body muscular endurance/hypertrophy

Just read the stickies and cant find anything that mentiones muscular endurance etc

Would a push, pull and leg not be best ?

 

[P-funk]

Just read the stickies and cant find anything that mentiones muscular endurance etc

muscular endurance can be grouped in the same catergory as muscular hypertrophy. Anything that increases mechanical work. Think 8-15 rep range.

Would a push, pull and leg not be best ?

There is no best. Read the stickies and put together a program and then post it here so that peopel can help you refine it. No one will give you the answers. The best thing we can do is give you the tools to learn. If I just told you what to do, you wouldn't really learn anything...and that would suck

 

[nathanlowe]

How about this.

Push - Bench Press, Millitary Press, Dip, Lateral Raise, ( Something like tricep pushup, Rope pushdowns or skullcrushers ? )

Pull - Deadlift, Bent-Over Row, Pullup, BB curls, T bar rows

Legs - Squat, Leg Press, Lunges, Good mornings

Contains the 7 big compounds aswell

 

[P-funk]

fill in more blanks...reps, sets, rest interval maybe...etc.

making a program is different than writing down exercises on a piece of paper.

 

[nathanlowe]

Bench, Squat and Dead 5 x 5
Millitary press, Bent over Row and Leg Press 3 x 8

Thats all i know really that will work wel.

 

[P-funk]

honestly, read the stickies.

I am done with this thread until you come back with something acceptable. I don't have time to write a program for you and I get paid by people to do it, so I am certainly not going to do it for free.

 

[nathanlowe]

Push
Bench press - 5 x 5
millitary press - 3 x 8
dips - 3 sets till failure
lateral raise 3 x 8
skull crushers 2 x 4-6

Pull
deadlift3 x 5
bent over row - 3 x 6-8
pullup - ( failure as cant do many ) If its the overhand pullup that is
bb curls - 2 x 4-6
t bar rows - 3 x 8

Legs
Squat5 x 5
Leg press 3 x 5
Lunges 3 x 8
Good mornings 3 x 8

 

[P-funk]

it still is kind of all over the place.

Do you know what your 5RM or 3RM for the basic lifts (bench, squat, deadlift) are? Also, deadlifts are still a lower body movement, so I would train them as such.

If you are looking for strength (as you said that was your goal), I would still focus on total body workouts honestly, as you can do a lot more with manipulating different training variables and training frequency within the week.

Judging by your first post, I would say that you haven't done much organized strength training (just sort of going in and winging it). If you are going to stick with the push, pull, legs deal; you might want to organize things as such:


Week 1: 4x6 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 2: 4x5 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 3: 3x8 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 4: 5x3 on the main exercise (working up to a new 3RM); 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts.


Hope that gives you an idea.

 

[nathanlowe]

The thing with total body workouts is that you need day on day off.
Do you mean total body as in upper and lower strength.
week a - monday - upper
tuesday - lower
thursday - upper

week b - monday - lower
tuesday - upper
thursday - lower

Is that what you mean by total body workouts ?

I dont know what my 5rm and 3rm are, however after my week holidays, so week commencing monday 18th february, i will dedicate that session or 3 sessions ( week ) to finding out my rep maxes if nessesary.
It depends what type of deadlift you do depending on wether or not to catogorise it in legs doesnt it ? The stiff leg concentrates more on the hamstrings whilst the other version is more lower back isnt it ?

If sticking with push, pull and legs is the only option.
What are the reasons for doing

""Week 1: 4x6 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 2: 4x5 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 3: 3x8 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 4: 5x3 on the main exercise (working up to a new 3RM); 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts.""
What is the reason for this ? is it just a good way of progression ?

 

[P-funk]

The thing with total body workouts is that you need day on day off.
Do you mean total body as in upper and lower strength.
week a - monday - upper
tuesday - lower
thursday - upper

week b - monday - lower
tuesday - upper
thursday - lower

Is that what you mean by total body workouts ?

By total boy workouts, i mean you train your total body in one session.

mon- total body
wed- total body
fri- total body

I dont know what my 5rm and 3rm are, however after my week holidays, so week commencing monday 18th february, i will dedicate that session or 3 sessions ( week ) to finding out my rep maxes if nessesary.
It depends what type of deadlift you do depending on wether or not to catogorise it in legs doesnt it ? The stiff leg concentrates more on the hamstrings whilst the other version is more lower back isnt it ?

No worries. Just train and slowly work up to them over a few weeks, then you can get an idea of where you are strength wise.

Not sure what you mean by the type of deadlift. I have never performed a deadlift that did not involve hip extension to a certain extent. If by "other versio" you mean pulling from the floow, then yea, that one works the legs as well. All deadlifts work the spinal erectors by forcing them to maintain a straight, flat back posture.

If sticking with push, pull and legs is the only option.
What are the reasons for doing

""Week 1: 4x6 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 2: 4x5 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 3: 3x8 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 4: 5x3 on the main exercise (working up to a new 3RM); 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts.""
What is the reason for this ? is it just a good way of progression

It is just one way to organize your training. I was just throwing it out there as an option. You can use other variations, but in the end, you want something that allows you to work towards a certain goal (in this case working up to 3RM in week 4) and organized in a way that helps to get you there.

 

[nathanlowe]

As i cannot commit to day on day off as of yet because of my rugby. I think i am going to try a push, pull and legs routine after my holidays.

As i understand their is romanian deadlift and the other deadlift where you bend your knees.
If i was to consume in this push, pull and legs workout. Which deadlift should i use ? I have been doing the romanian lately and enjoy it as i have good form and it really stretches out my tight hams. I also think it would work well with leg press.

Bench
Dips
Military

Deads
DB rows
Chins

Squats
Straight leg deadlifts - that would be romanians wouldnt it ?
Calf raise

I think the pull day will be a little short as at the moment i wont be able to do 2 wide grip chins as it just isnt a strong point of mine. So im going to progress as in 1,1,1,1,1 then 2,1,1,1,1 etc.
Should nothing else be added anywere? Bicep work looks missing and shoulders looks a little light, maybe lat raises ?

I will then base my workout on the
Week 1: 4x6 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 2: 4x5 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 3: 3x8 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 4: 5x3 on the main exercise 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts.""

How would i define the assistance lifts ? As there are the 7 compound exersises in my routine ?

Thanks for the help. Im gaining a better understanding of all this. ]
Its good to know my 3 rep max as after week four ill know if ive improved it then, ie if the workouts right for me.

 

[nathanlowe]

P funk i am very grateful for all of the help you have given me. I have gained alot of knowledge from you.
However i know i sound abit mithery, but i have missed a weeks training from trying to sort out a routine. Im going on holiday tomorow night gmt and was just wondering if you could just makesure you reply to my questions above ^^^ by the time i get back, a week later. This will enable me to start training a week on monday.

Thanks

 

[P-funk]

As i cannot commit to day on day off as of yet because of my rugby. I think i am going to try a push, pull and legs routine after my holidays.

okay


As i understand their is romanian deadlift and the other deadlift where you bend your knees.
If i was to consume in this push, pull and legs workout. Which deadlift should i use ? I have been doing the romanian lately and enjoy it as i have good form and it really stretches out my tight hams. I also think it would work well with leg press.

I would place the deadlift on lower body day and depending on if you are squatting or not, that would tell you which deadlift to use. If you are squatting for 4 weeks, I would perform the RDL as an assistance movement. If you are deadlift (from the floor) for four weeks, then use some sort of single leg movement as you assistance lift.


Bench
Dips
Military

Deads
DB rows
Chins

again, put the deads on lower day (like you have, RDLs) so drop the deads here and either do another rowing movement (like body weight supine rows or face pulls) or a biceps movement)

Squats
Straight leg deadlifts - that would be romanians wouldnt it ? RDLs for the win
Calf raise

I think the pull day will be a little short as at the moment i wont be able to do 2 wide grip chins as it just isnt a strong point of mine. So im going to progress as in 1,1,1,1,1 then 2,1,1,1,1 etc. Sounds bueno

Should nothing else be added anywere? Bicep work looks missing and shoulders looks a little light, maybe lat raises ?

a bicep exericse on pull day is okay. you can also add scapular stabilizer work to the pull day or even the upper day if you want. I would throw in a single leg movement on lower body day as well


I will then base my workout on the
Week 1: 4x6 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 2: 4x5 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 3: 3x8 on the main exercise; 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts
Week 4: 5x3 on the main exercise 2-3x8-12 on the assistance lifts.""

How would i define the assistance lifts ? As there are the 7 compound exersises in my routine ?

Even though you are using a lot of compound exercises, which is good and recommended, focus on as your main exercise and then after 4 weeks, choose another. So, bench is main exercise for 4 weeks and shoulder press is an assistance lift. The, flip for the next 4 weeks.

Thanks for the help. Im gaining a better understanding of all this. ]
Its good to know my 3 rep max as after week four ill know if ive improved it then, ie if the workouts right for me.

answers in bold.

have a nice holiday.

 

[nathanlowe]

Thanks for the quick reply.
Ill try this on the first week back and post my results here and strengths and weeknesses etc.

 

[nathanlowe]

Hey there. Just a few days until my push,pull and legs routine starts and im just going to add something.
The PT at my gym, also a rugby league player, has advised me to do some Power Cleans as it will be good for power.

Im just wondering were i could add them in.

With monday being - bench, dips and millitary press
Tuesday being - Bent over BB row, Chins, Pullups
Thursday being - Squats, Romanian Deadlifts, Calf Raises.

Should i add Power Cleans in on tuesday or thursday as an extra and see as it goes, as looking at it, monday looks very demanding and it wouldnt be possible to add anything else.

Also, as im unable to do wide grip chins, shall i first try them at the width i can manage ? IE the width of my door frame ?
I could knock out 5 in 1 set, so when i can do them 5 x 5 then try and make it a bit wider ?

Pullups, shall i do them 5 x 5 and then add weight ? or higher rep range ?

 

[P-funk]

do you know how to properly do a power clean? have you been instructed on the proper techique? Power cleans are a leg exercise.

chin ups don't have to be with a wide grip.

 

[nathanlowe]

do you know how to properly do a power clean? have you been instructed on the proper techique? Power cleans are a leg exercise.

chin ups don't have to be with a wide grip.

I know what one is but have never tried it. I have tried the clean and jerk but not with olyimpic bar.
Think i might start off with the push, pull and legs routine and see how it goes etc.

The wider the grip on chin ups, the harder and more emphasis on the back it is going to be.
Ill just see how wide im comfortable and when i can do 5 x 5 try a bit wider.

 

[P-funk]

if you don't have proper instructio on cleans, then don't do them. you wont get the adaptations you are seeking if the exercise is not performed correctly.

 

[nathanlowe]

Thanks, im just going to leave it as it is then.

Im going to start the weights around 20kg, ensuring good form and increase it when i can do 5 x 5 with good form etc.

As i wont have a gym partner due to them getting rugby scholarships im going to do 25kg bench press 5 x 5, as i will beable to manage this without a spotter ill just go up to 27,5kg when comfortable. I feel ill progress this way.

 

[nathanlowe]

Does that seem the right way to look at it ?

 

[P-funk]

go in the gym and LIFT. You bench press 20kg. you are overthinking this way to much.