Deadlifts - squeezing out that last rep...

[marty 600]

Hiya all,

Training for strength at the moment. For Strength Training - Should I forgo the last rep - or is that counter productive???


I moved up the weight last night - was looking to do 4 reps.
I have always been told to keep my back bolt straight throughout


On the last rep:
I felt my Ab really working, as I concentrated to keep my back straight.

Is that a sign my back is rounding - or is it this CORE stuff working together?


Please advise
Martin


PS:
I'm noticing my lower back today - I'm being careful with it , but not in pain or anything....

Is this something I should just get use to - as part of "body breakdown/rebuilding stronger"

..with back problems a accumulative thing, or is it "you know when your back has gone - when it goes"

 

[CowPimp]

If you don't feel comfortable going to failure like that, then you don't have to. That's your call; there is certainly a greater inherent risk going to failure on deadlifts compared to, let's say, bicep curls.

Personally, if I'm trying to break a record I go balls to the wall. I don't always lift like that. Going to failure on every set of deadlifts all the time is harsh. However, I give it all I have if I'm ready for it. I've gone for heavy singles where it took me damned near 10 seconds to pull the weight up.

 

[PWGriffin]

If you don't feel comfortable going to failure like that, then you don't have to. That's your call; there is certainly a greater inherent risk going to failure on deadlifts compared to, let's say, bicep curls.

Personally, if I'm trying to break a record I go balls to the wall. I don't always lift like that. Going to failure on every set of deadlifts all the time is harsh. However, I give it all I have if I'm ready for it. I've gone for heavy singles where it took me damned near 10 seconds to pull the weight up.

10 seconds!!!

 

[viet_jon]

yo pimp....what are you suppose to do with the weight after you lock out? especially with really heavy ass weights.

I find that If i try to lower it slowly, my back starts to bend and i feel a little pain after the lift. So should I just drop it in a controlled way?

 

[CowPimp]

yo pimp....what are you suppose to do with the weight after you lock out? especially with really heavy ass weights.

I find that If i try to lower it slowly, my back starts to bend and i feel a little pain after the lift. So should I just drop it in a controlled way?

I sort of drop it in a controlled fashion.

 

[Pedigree]

CP, would you agree that deads are primarily a strength move and shouldn't really be taken to failure? Obviously, performing a heavy 1RM is going to failure, but I'm talking doing reps to failure. I personally think it's counterproductive for strength and opens the door wider for potential injury.

 

[marty 600]

I'm getting confused here....


2 questions:



1. Isn't training for strength - lifting as heavy as you can, and doing as many reps are you can in the 1-6 rep range? I think I read somewhere that - it is the last couple of reps that you get the greatest "intensity/effort" Thats the whole point the exercise is actually aimed at...


2. With the deadlift - if you feel your Abs working - is that a sure sign that your back is rounding? Or is it just a sign that your ABs are now kicking in to help towards the movement, and you should just conc on keeping that back straight!


Please advise...

Martin

 

[viet_jon]

im pretty sure abs are a big part of the movement.

 

[P-funk]

I'm getting confused here....


2 questions:



1. Isn't training for strength - lifting as heavy as you can, and doing as many reps are you can in the 1-6 rep range? I think I read somewhere that - it is the last couple of reps that you get the greatest "intensity/effort" Thats the whole point the exercise is actually aimed at...


2. With the deadlift - if you feel your Abs working - is that a sure sign that your back is rounding? Or is it just a sign that your ABs are now kicking in to help towards the movement, and you should just conc on keeping that back straight!


Please advise...

Martin

1. yes and no. intensity and effort are the two most important factors. Structunring the workout so that you are working below maximum and making steady increases it going to take you a longer way then blowing yourself out everytime.

2. brace your abs. form a girdle and get tight. lift the weight. If your back is rouding it will let you know!

 

[CowPimp]

CP, would you agree that deads are primarily a strength move and shouldn't really be taken to failure? Obviously, performing a heavy 1RM is going to failure, but I'm talking doing reps to failure. I personally think it's counterproductive for strength and opens the door wider for potential injury.

I don't necessarily agree that it's a "strength movement." Why can't it be used to build mass and performed in the more traditional hypertrophy range? I know a lot of people advise against it, but I don't see why. As long as you can maintain a neutral spine when going to failure I don't see a problem.

I haven't used deadlifts for anything higher than 5 reps or so in a while, but that's because my goal is not mass. I have done higher rep deadlifts in the past, and I don't find it troubling to maintain good posture throughout any more than a stiff legged deadlift or a good morning.

 

[Pedigree]

As long as you can maintain a neutral spine when going to failure I don't see a problem.

Exactly. That seems to be the problem once the lifter becomes fatiqued.

 

[Witchblade]

Wait, is it really bad when you can feel your lower back after you drop the weight on DLs? After a set of 10 DLs, keeping my back straight, my lower back burns like hell. After a minute it's over and I can do another set. I thought it was a good thing, feeling the burn etc. Usually my muscles are sore after a workout, including my lower back and I can see my lower back improve pretty well.

Is that bad?

 

[Seanp156]

10 seconds!!!

I know right... I think a 2-3 second long pull is a long time...

Wait, is it really bad when you can feel your lower back after you drop the weight on DLs? After a set of 10 DLs, keeping my back straight, my lower back burns like hell. After a minute it's over and I can do another set. I thought it was a good thing, feeling the burn etc. Usually my muscles are sore after a workout, including my lower back and I can see my lower back improve pretty well.

Is that bad?

I usually feel a burn if I do something over 4 reps, or even 3 reps if it's really heavy... I don't think a burn is bad, it's when it's a sharp shooting/twitching pain that you need to stop. Even then, it may be something as minor as a pinched nerve, and could go away from anywhere between a few minutes to a week or so, but it's still a sign that something's not right, and you shouldn't continue back work for the session.

 

[CowPimp]

Exactly. That seems to be the problem once the lifter becomes fatiqued.

Just don't goto failure. Problem solved. I have a lot of my clients deadlift for reps. You have to start somewhere.

 

[Double D]

Plain and simple if you can do it with the proper form then go ahead with it. But if you are to the point where your back is bent and you look like the St.louis arch then put the weight down.

 

[marty 600]

CP, would you agree that deads are primarily a strength move and shouldn't really be taken to failure? Obviously, performing a heavy 1RM is going to failure, but I'm talking doing reps to failure. I personally think it's counterproductive for strength and opens the door wider for potential injury.

Oh right!

Is a good summary then:


Training for Strength:
* 1-6 reps
* Heavy weights as can
* Keep good form,
* Don't go to failiure - ie. forget sloppy last rep - to avoid injury


Training for Mass:
* 7-14 reps
* Moderate to Heavy weights
* Keep good form
* Possibly go to failure - judgement call!


Training for Toning:
* 15 reps onwards
* Light to Moderate weights
* Keep good form
* Possibly go to failure - If fit/warmed up - won't hurt self really!

 

[CowPimp]

Oh right!

Is a good summary then:


Training for Strength:
* 1-6 reps
* Heavy weights as can
* Keep good form,
* Don't go to failiure - ie. forget sloppy last rep - to avoid injury


Training for Mass:
* 7-14 reps
* Moderate to Heavy weights
* Keep good form
* Possibly go to failure - judgement call!


Training for Toning:
* 15 reps onwards
* Light to Moderate weights
* Keep good form
* Possibly go to failure - If fit/warmed up - won't hurt self really!

No such thing as training for toning. That's called losing body fat. Also, I disagree that you should avoid failure on heavy stuff. Just like with anything, going to failure all the time isn't the best idea. However, you are going to have to try and progress by using heavier weights than you have before if you want to get stronger.

 

[marty 600]

Thanks CP

I'll crack on with the deadlift - and see how I go....

I'm only doing 4 wks heavy, then I'll see about changing the routines to cycle it...

Martin