Did I just find a new way to make gear?!?

[Digitalash]

Found this on google, its a method for making steroids water soluble for injection.

"A complex of branched beta cyclodextrin and steroid is formed by mixing a steroid and a branched beta cyclodextrin together in water for a period of about 4 to 24 hours under ambient conditions. The solubility of the steroid is increased about 95 times by employing the complex"

I'm not sure they mean anabolic steroids necessarily, but it doesn't say so I think it probably would work for anything with a steroid structure? It says 95x more soluble, so lets say trenbolone is only soluble at 1mg/ml of water, now you could make it 95mg/ml? Am I way off or is there something I'm missing thats the reason this isn't used?

 

[heartofalion]

I know Board Admin at PHF does this and loves it. The drawback I read was the high cost of cyclodextrine. Someone with the right connects i'm sure can get it for a reasonable price.

 

[Digitalash]

The link was removed by mods I believe, but someone actually does this? I imagine it would be alot less painful, I looked a little bit and couldn't find "branched beta cyclodextrine" at all, I imagine there's another name for it but I don't know it. I'd be interested in trying it just to see what its like, and I'm sure if its actually that much better then there are people willing to pay a premium for it. I can see it now, an entire lab dedicated to water soluble steroids, painless injections through a 29ga in five seconds, what could be better

 

[overburdened]

Found this on google, its a method for making steroids water soluble for injection.

"A complex of branched beta cyclodextrin and steroid is formed by mixing a steroid and a branched beta cyclodextrin together in water for a period of about 4 to 24 hours under ambient conditions. The solubility of the steroid is increased about 95 times by employing the complex"

I'm not sure they mean anabolic steroids necessarily, but it doesn't say so I think it probably would work for anything with a steroid structure? It says 95x more soluble, so lets say trenbolone is only soluble at 1mg/ml of water, now you could make it 95mg/ml? Am I way off or is there something I'm missing thats the reason this isn't used?

I beat you to this.. but, yes, you can put some in water using beta cyclodextrin complexes... I did this with primo ace and it was GREAT!!!! I have some pics of how well it hardened me out(in a short period of time).. it's better at hardening when in water, than oil...

The main issue with this is that most people(I had let probably 6 friends try it... 4 had reactions) have reactions to it... so, unless you are one of the few, like me and one of my friends that tried it... it's worthless!(It is VERY painful, from what they described!!!... and can cause a sterile abscess, since the body is rejecting it, and not letting it out of the 'pocket' where you injected it)...

Great idea! but in common practice, is not as uselful as you would think! If you are one that can tolerate it, it's BAD ASS though!!!

 

[overburdened]

Found this on google, its a method for making steroids water soluble for injection.

"A complex of branched beta cyclodextrin and steroid is formed by mixing a steroid and a branched beta cyclodextrin together in water for a period of about 4 to 24 hours under ambient conditions. The solubility of the steroid is increased about 95 times by employing the complex"

I'm not sure they mean anabolic steroids necessarily, but it doesn't say so I think it probably would work for anything with a steroid structure? It says 95x more soluble, so lets say trenbolone is only soluble at 1mg/ml of water, now you could make it 95mg/ml? Am I way off or is there something I'm missing thats the reason this isn't used?

BTW, I'm HIGHLY impressed with your level of intelligence... to think of this as being usefull for aas(because it DOES work for many of them!!!!) Most people don't have the thought process to be able to put these types of things together... You are def one of a kind BRO!!!

 

[overburdened]

The link was removed by mods I believe, but someone actually does this? I imagine it would be alot less painful, I looked a little bit and couldn't find "branched beta cyclodextrine" at all, I imagine there's another name for it but I don't know it. I'd be interested in trying it just to see what its like, and I'm sure if its actually that much better then there are people willing to pay a premium for it. I can see it now, an entire lab dedicated to water soluble steroids, painless injections through a 29ga in five seconds, what could be better

Works best with beta-hydroxy- cyclodextrin... this gives it a (OH) branch, which helps with water 'solubility'

 

[Digitalash]

I posted some more info in the home brew section bro, I didn't read much about bad reactions but I did read that its exorbitantly expensive lol... Something like $1.50-$3.00 per gram, and you need about 9 grams cyclodextrin to each gram powder, so you'd end up spending far more on cyclo than actual raw material, not cost effective at all apparently. It is supposed to be amazing for absorption though, it works sublingually, nasally, and intramuscular apparently too. Making test base in cyclo is supposed to make it release far more quickly than TNE or suspension. Also it can be used to make injectable orals without using guaiacol/EO etc. and they would be absorbed very rapidly. Test base sublinguals might actually be worthwhile in these, if you could find the cyclo cheaply enough.


And thanks for the compliment bro, means alot coming from you and I know you taught me a few things. I credit most of my AAS knowledge to spending copious amounts of time on these boards researching, and all the helpful people here who answered my noob questions when I first got here I figured it didn't mean anabolic steroids, but all steroids share a similar structure so I figured it would at least work to dissolve it the same way. I googled a bit and at least a few other people have tried this with AAS, many of them prohormones made into sublingual/nasal ROA but a few that were injectables. One that I posted in homebrew forum was a guy who made dbol in it and said that 25mg was now too strong, and that it seemed to absorb much better than oral or even guaiacol based injectable. If one could find a fairly cheap source of bulk beta hydroxy cyclo then I'd be willing to give it a shot. I think injectable orals, test base sublinguals and injectable test base would be perfect uses for this stuff.

Also one guy mentioned in a thread about this that a long ester steroid would actually release immediately? Would that be the case? He said the ester only has the effect of slowing release when its dissolved in a lipid. If its in cyclo/water it will release immediately as if it had no ester at all?

 

[overburdened]

The way you are calculating it is a little backward... You would have to get into some pretty deep math, and know the molecular weight of the actual 'beta hydroxy cyclodextrin' being used, in order to make the complex without any wast(which would make the cost skyrocket very quickly.. waste would)... most beta hydroxy cyclodextrin complexes can hold 2 molecules(of aas) to each molecule of cyclodextrin, all the way up to ten molecules(of aas) per cyclodextrin complex(so you will have 2:1-10:1... and these are molecular weight to molecular weight... including the weight of the ester attached...), so it will go a little further than you are thinking, but nonetheless is not CHEAP....

as far as the ester, the compound is not 'active' in the body with the ester attached(MOST AREN'T....If you are going to get into ABSOLUTES... there are a few exceptions... ).... However, when the aas is 'released' into the bloodstream, it is already in circulation... with the ester attached... so, it is more easily cleaved at a much quicker rate(as every muscle, and many other tissues have the deesterase enzyme in them.. the molecule just has to get to the deesterase enzyme to be cleaved of the ester, and in effect, 'activated'....)... So, yes, it would cause a quicker action of a long ester(though I am not sure exactly the difference it would make(probably quite a bit of difference!)... there's really not much in the way of studies timing the injection to peak blood levels(of differing esters of same compounds)

Also, since it is now water soluble, due to the cyclodextrin complex, it goes systemic nearly instantly... so you have peak levels of 'non-esterified' compounds VERY quickly!!!! You don't have to wait for the 'oil pocket' to be 'pulled' into the bloodstream....

Once other thing... cyclodextrin complexes tend to lower cholesterol levels.... in the same way that they 'bond' with the steroid molecule.. they also 'bond' with cholesterol molecules(after having the aas 'pulled' from the complex), and the cholesterol is then filtered and released through the kidneys.... thus lowering overall cholesterol.... Another cool side effect of the cyclodextrin complexes....