Do you believe in spanking?

[buff_tat2d_chic]

Originally posted by mmafiter
For all those opposed to "spanking", I don't mean beating, or whipping, I'm talking about two quick swats on the butt, what would you do in this situation?

Parent: Billy, go to your room.

Billy: No.

Parent: Billy, go to your room!

Billy: No!

Parent: That's it your grounded for a week!

Billy: I don't care!

Parent: I'm taking away your t.v and computer!

Billy: So?

And it just continues. This scenario isn't happening to me, cause I would have kicked Billy's ass long ago, but I've seen it many times. The kid just reaches a point where he doesn't care.

Ditto!

 

[naturaltan]

Originally posted by mmafiter
For all those opposed to "spanking", I don't mean beating, or whipping, I'm talking about two quick swats on the butt, what would you do in this situation?

Parent: Billy, go to your room.

Billy: No.

Parent: Billy, go to your room!

Billy: No!

Parent: That's it your grounded for a week!

Billy: I don't care!

Parent: I'm taking away your t.v and computer!

Billy: So?

And it just continues. This scenario isn't happening to me, cause I would have kicked Billy's ass long ago, but I've seen it many times. The kid just reaches a point where he doesn't care. I used to work with young offenders and they were the worst for this. You could give them time-outs, take away treats, etc, and they would just tell you to "fuck off". Eventually I'd just grab the kid and throw them in thier room, and they got the message. If you pissed me off enough, you were going to get it. Many staff enjoyed working on my shift cause it was usually quiet.

I'm with you ... it wouldn't have gotten as far as the second question. I said go to your room, she says no. a swat on the bum and I put her in her room. Done.

 

[firestorm]

Well reading all this I suppose there isn't any one correct answer. You do what you have to do I guess.

 

[Eggs]

Er, I was spanked until I was 16 and looking back on things... I deserved every "pankin" that I had. It really depends on the child, as I'm sure most people here think... but I do believe that spanking is a very good form of punishment. On the flip side, I think we need to make sure and reward our kids for what they do right as well

 

[Eggs]

Originally posted by firestorm

Originally posted by Rusty
he he......sounds like my dad..........

So here you guys are again saying,,, your kids flinching in fear of you is a good thing. You flinched when your dad walked by so it "must" be acceptable. I suppose it is if that is all you knew. I find it really sad.
My kids don't fear me. They don't lie to me because they know they can tell me anything without the fear of pain. They make a mistake or do something stupid, it is explained why they shouldn't do whatever it was and told not to do it again for that reason. I could give you 100 examples.
one story just came to mind, Last year my oldest son was having a little chattering problem in school. He was told not to talk in class during lessons because he not only misses what is going on but he is causing the person he is talking to miss it too. After the second time, he was warned do not think of doing it again and if he does he better tell me as soon as school gets out. I told him I better not hear it from a teacher first. Well sure enough,, there was a 3rd incedent. He came out of school and told me immediately that he talked in class again and the teacher said his Name out loud telling him to be quiet. For one week he was in bed at 19:00 and was grounded to the house with no friends games etc for a whole weekend. He was given extra chores for 2 weeks also. Let me tell you,, I haven't heard one report on that kind of behavior from him the rest of last year or one report this year.
I straighted that one out without even raising my voice.

I think anybody that said that having your child fear you is a good thing is joking or misguided. They shouldnt fear you, they should fear what they are doing wrong. I'm sorry that some people were abused as children, but if you came up to me and said "Eggs, you've been pretty bad, we need to talk (dumbed down...)" I'd have given you the finger. I'm glad your kids are that good, I for one wasnt one of them. I wont ever cause my kids pain to get some sort of sick gratification out of it, but I do know that the punishment I got as a child I deserved... and if I hadnt gotten it I'd have been a mess. *shrug* Its all about being balanced in what you do.

 

[Pianomahnn]

Spanking tends to work because it interacts with basic animal instinct. Pain isn't good. And anything that causes pain should be avoided.

A child will have a much easier time remembering not to do something which resulted in pain (spanking), than something which resulted in a toy being taken away.

Tell a kid not to touch something because it's hot won't work (hell, it hardly works on adults as it is), the child will touch it and feel the pain. But now that the child understands that pain is associated with this item, there won't be any more touching (unless they're just dumb).

It's all about behavior modification and shaping. Physical reinforcement tends to work very well, as long as it's not overpowering. Children who are beat, as is probably evident to many people, are screwed up and not well behaved. Too much physical reinforcement. But, a child who is physically reinforced correctly should be well behaved.

Try it with rodents sometime. Zap them with electricity often, and little or no behaviors will be modified or shaped. But zap them with electricity only on a few select behaviors, and you'll notice they'll no longer do those certain things.

People who claim spanking leads to violent children are ignorant as to what spanking is. Spanking is not beating. Not even close. I wish they wouldn't walk around blind like this, spouting their ignorance to the masses. Disinformation does noone any good.

 

[Mudge]

I think its discressionary, my dad said that he used to mix up the punishments from time, but yes I used to get spanked and here I am. Never been in jail, have a decent job, yada yada

 

[Pianomahnn]

Originally posted by Eggs
They shouldnt fear you, they should fear what they are doing wrong.

So they're going to fear the act of smarting off?

"Oh please, mr. smarting off, don't hurt me."

A child should fear their parents, but not the way they would fear some crazy psycho killer beast thing.

A child who does not fear their parents cannot take them seriously. If they don't fear them, why should they listen to them? It's the same thing that plays out in school yards. A big kid doesn't listen to a small kid. Why? Because the big kid doesn't fear the little kid. But, that same big kid will most assuredly fear the even bigger kid.

Only later in life will the child then migrate into listening to their parents out of respect, instead of fear. But a child who doesn't fear their parents now, probably won't respect them later in life.

Once again, this fear is not the same fear as "crazy psycho killer beast" fear. It's not a life and death fear.

 

[Mudge]

A child should feel bad for dissapointing thier parents. My step brother on the other hand has been in and out of prison many times, and is in yet again. I hadn't seen him for 8 years until a chance encounter about 3 months ago. His mother was not into punishment other than "go to your room" stuff, as well as giving up on even that. Throw a sad puppy dog face and she would break.

 

[firestorm]

Originally posted by Pianomahnn
Spanking tends to work because it interacts with basic animal instinct. Pain isn't good. And anything that causes pain should be avoided.

A child will have a much easier time remembering not to do something which resulted in pain (spanking), than something which resulted in a toy being taken away.

Tell a kid not to touch something because it's hot won't work (hell, it hardly works on adults as it is), the child will touch it and feel the pain. But now that the child understands that pain is associated with this item, there won't be any more touching (unless they're just dumb).

It's all about behavior modification and shaping. Physical reinforcement tends to work very well, as long as it's not overpowering. Children who are beat, as is probably evident to many people, are screwed up and not well behaved. Too much physical reinforcement. But, a child who is physically reinforced correctly should be well behaved.

Try it with rodents sometime. Zap them with electricity often, and little or no behaviors will be modified or shaped. But zap them with electricity only on a few select behaviors, and you'll notice they'll no longer do those certain things.

People who claim spanking leads to violent children are ignorant as to what spanking is. Spanking is not beating. Not even close. I wish they wouldn't walk around blind like this, spouting their ignorance to the masses. Disinformation does noone any good.

If this is directed towards me, I'm hardly ignorant or disinformed on the subject. I was mostly upset at the postings where individuals condone the use of straps and belts on their kids. You call that a spanking and I'll call you a liar. That is down right child abuse and totally overkill.

 

[Eggs]

Thats fine Piano, I dont really have the time or desire to argue this with you. I meant fear as in "Oh Daddy, please dont beat me with the club again tonight." A child should respect their parents... and with that comes the fear of reprocussions for their actions which are not appropriate, etc.

And umm, yes... they should "fear the act of smarting off" because then if their parents arent around then they wont care about any punishment because one might not happen. Of course, the act of punishing done correctly will put the child in the place where they understand what they are doing is wrong, because its been reinforced on their back side from day one.

Really though, I dont care so much to discuss this anymore. Anybody who wants to know more can go down to their local college and sign up for Psych 101 and if they have a decent professor they'll learn plenty on the subject. If not, we'll stick them in the skinner box and...

 

[Eggs]

Originally posted by firestorm
If this is directed towards me, I'm hardly ignorant or disinformed on the subject. I was mostly upset at the postings where individuals condone the use of straps and belts on their kids. You call that a spanking and I'll call you a liar. That is down right child abuse and totally overkill.

Hmmm, possibly... if you beat the child as such with them then yes. If not, then perhaps if done sincerely as an attempt at punishing correctly a belt wont hurt any more than a hand...

The main reason I responded to this is because I wonder what the impact is psychologically between using an object such as a belt in your punishment routine and using your hand. Is it better to use a belt because that way they dont come to associate that pain with you, but understand that it is something you can use none the less... or is it better to use a hand where upon perhaps whenever you are present they will have a reminder that punishment is only so far away. Hrm. Thats not so well stated... but it is interesting IMO.

 

[firestorm]

Then it's not directed towards me because as stated in previous posts, I do not nor have ever had to resort to physically spanking,hitting, clubbing, or belting either of my children.

 

[Eggs]

No, it wasnt... you wouldnt have any experience in the subject matter

Really though, I'm glad your kids are so well behaved.

 

[firestorm]

yea me too!!

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by Eggs A child should respect their parents... and with that comes the fear of reprocussions for their actions which are not appropriate, etc.

Eggs, don't make me come beat the crap out of you. Common sense has no place in a discussion here.

In case anyone's having a difficult time seeing the humor in that statement, IT'S A JOKE! Eggs hit the nail directly on the head, children should RESPECT thier parents. Now, how a parent EARNS that respect is cause for some debate but the bottom line is that if you need to resort to physical punishment of a child then DO IT. Don't just stand there and repeat yourself for hours. "Johnny stop that", doesn't work with some kids and they need a good smack acroos the butt.

 

[firestorm]

I still disagree.

 

[ALBOB]

If you've already addressed the issue I appologize, I must have missed it but, what do you do with children who are too young to understand "reasoning"? I'm of the opinion that children under the age of six (give or take a couple of years) don't have the capacity to understand what you're talking about if you just sit them down and "explain" things to them. They understand reward and punishment. If you remove punishment from the equation you end up with an unbalanced child.

 

[firestorm]

I totally agree with removing punishment you wind up with a problem child but I never ever said to remove punishment. In fact, check my previous post as to my type of punishment and I can guarentee it is much more effective then just a 2 second smack on the ass. My punishments last much longer and I keep them reminded during the entire punishment what they did to deserve it. I keep it fresh in their minds for hours or in cases days if need be. It is much more effective then a beating. Shit Albob you were in the military,, you tell me,, what is more effective to you. Here is a scenero:
Albob gets caught stealing food and storing cup cakes in his locker. His Drill Instuctor slaps him in the head and says don't do that again porkchop!!!! ((((( OR )))))))

Albob gets caught stealing and storing cupcakes in locker, DI yells at ALBOB and sends him on a 5mile run with full pack and then wakes him again at 04:00 and sends him on a second run for 5 miles with full pack.

I wonder which punishment you would deter you most from ever eating a twinkie again?

Now this is obviously a punishment for an adult but making the "bad" kid sit and read a book while the "good" kid gets to go out and play for friends an hour 3 days in a row ( and making sure the bad kid is within eye sight of the good kid and seeing how much fun he is missing out on) and consistently reminding Kane,, that if he didn't do the bad thing that could be him out there playing too!
Believe me this type of punishment works as I stated before. It is basic Child Psychology 101. I suggest that people pick up a bood on that subject. I have yet to read one (written by professionals keep in mind) that condoned hitting kids with belts as discapilne. Even spanking for that matter.

 

[Crono1000]

I feel that spanking should only be done to those you love and in a secluded area, like the bedroom

 

[firestorm]

hahahahahahaha Crono !!!!! yea I agree with you there bro!!!

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by Crono1000
I feel that spanking should only be done to those you love and in a secluded area, like the bedroom

Holy crap, something we can all agree on.........................and it's from CRONO!!!

 

[DaMayor]

What has this world come to?

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by DaMayor
What has this world come to?

Who cares, we're all gonna go spank Titanya.

 

[DaMayor]

Excellent!

 

[Crono1000]

 

[bludevil]

Originally posted by Pianomahnn
Spanking tends to work because it interacts with basic animal instinct. Pain isn't good. And anything that causes pain should be avoided.

A child will have a much easier time remembering not to do something which resulted in pain (spanking), than something which resulted in a toy being taken away.

Tell a kid not to touch something because it's hot won't work (hell, it hardly works on adults as it is), the child will touch it and feel the pain. But now that the child understands that pain is associated with this item, there won't be any more touching (unless they're just dumb).

It's all about behavior modification and shaping. Physical reinforcement tends to work very well, as long as it's not overpowering. Children who are beat, as is probably evident to many people, are screwed up and not well behaved. Too much physical reinforcement. But, a child who is physically reinforced correctly should be well behaved.

Try it with rodents sometime. Zap them with electricity often, and little or no behaviors will be modified or shaped. But zap them with electricity only on a few select behaviors, and you'll notice they'll no longer do those certain things.

People who claim spanking leads to violent children are ignorant as to what spanking is. Spanking is not beating. Not even close. I wish they wouldn't walk around blind like this, spouting their ignorance to the masses. Disinformation does noone any good.

Nice post, totally agree with everything. I'm a new father of 7 months. I've already told my wife that I'm spanking our child when they act up. I have in-laws that have a 5 year old kid and they don't believe in spanking her. She's about the worst/moodiest/disrepectful kid I've ever seen. If she got her tail-end spanked a couple of times, I guarantee you her attitude would change quick.

 

[craig777]

I think for me what I do not like is for someone to tell me how I should raise my children. I don't tell anyone else they should spank their children so why are there so many people saying if you spank your children you should be subject to criminal prosecution.

I have three boys and I have, and will, spank all three. Well I don't spank the 15 year old any more. It is not a beating, a clubing, or anything else you may want to name it. I use my hand because I know if it hurts my hand it hurts their butt. They do not associate my hand with pain and all that garbage that people talk about.

They do not think that since they are spanked that it is now ok to go to the playground and beat the crap out of little Johnny. They know that if they did they would get their butt beat. None of my boys has ever gotten into a fight. They are mostly A students, with some Bs. Their teachers have nothing but good things to say.

I got my butt beat when I was little and I thank my Mom for it all the time.

 

[Pianomahnn]

Originally posted by firestorm
Here is a scenero:
Albob gets caught stealing food and storing cup cakes in his locker. His Drill Instuctor slaps him in the head and says don't do that again porkchop!!!! ((((( OR )))))))

Albob gets caught stealing and storing cupcakes in locker, DI yells at ALBOB and sends him on a 5mile run with full pack and then wakes him again at 04:00 and sends him on a second run for 5 miles with full pack.

I wonder which punishment you would deter you most from ever eating a twinkie again?

That is a physical punishment same as spanking. Main difference is the pain and discomfort associated with hoarding twinkies is inflicted indirectly by the punisher. Instead of the punisher creating muscle aches and hell of an uncomfortable time by his own physical means, it's inflicted by the punishee by means of the punisher.

Physical == Physical. There was no reasoning involved in your scenario. There was no conversation about the wrongs. It was simply "stealing twinkies is going to result in running a lot with heavy shit on my back." It was not "stealing twinkies is bad and shouldn't be done because it's bad." The stealing of twinkies is now associated with running, not with being wrong.

 

[CourtQueen]

And in the end there are such a variety of parenting styles it is exhausting.......

There is a series out there called "Love and Logic". I highly recommend it. There is more to parenting then spanking or not spanking and how that affects a child.

Spanking or not spanking says very little about a parent and very little about a child as far as I'm concerned.