Tidal, you could've taken the verse numbers out
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Do you follow a religion
- Thread starter Robboe
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read it as both but reapproved my thoughts on religion being BS
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Care to share why?
Also, you could not read it as both. you either read it as a believer in the Bible or you do not not...but not both.
I agree, much religion is BS, but I'm sure our definitions of religion differ.
i find it hard to believe in all that, i guess some people believe yes I believe no, i will stop so i don't give uneducated answers.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
However, it is also perfectly understandable for any thinking man or woman to question their, or any form of, religion. Religion was always a major factor in my upbringing, as with 99% of people living in the South. (Most of which are Southern Baptists)However, I have always questioned certain aspects of religion, and will continue to do so until my dying day. The important thing is that we (or I) never lose sight of the big picture.....which is what I attempted to describe earlier.
The Bible as a Historical Text...
I once had a literature prof. who said that the Bible was perhaps the greatest historical work known to man....and nothing else. At the time, I paid little attention to the comment, but as time went on, I found myself questioning his statement.
The Bible is only as good as the interpretor. Those who follow the Bible literally, word for word, are missing the point. True, some of the lessons taught should be taken literally, yet the majority of the message within is expressed via symbolism.
Like Rob said, the leaders during biblical times were just that...leaders. Priests were political figures as well as spiritual, and often had exclusive access or prayer rights with God. It seems only logical that they would have used this "privilege" in order to curtail the behavior of the people when they strayed beyond what was considered 'socially acceptable'. Fear is a great motivator...an excellent tool for those who know how to use it, yet destructive for those who don't. Most of this type of goverment ocurred in the old testment, and later we are introduced to a more loving God in the new testament.
Back to the general topic.
Convenience motivated interpretation of Religion.....
As with every other aspect of our lives, we often rearrange information to our benefit. Humans are selfish creatures by nature. I don't think we react due to fear as much as we do for convenience.
The Ten Commandments.....
My money says that Moses was the smartest guy in the crowd, who was a bit more in touch with his conscience. This is not to say that he wasn't inspired from above. Since I was not there I cannot dispute this. However, I do think that the Ten Commandments were written based on experience. In other words, all of the things that consistently didn't sit well with the old conscience were written down in an attempt to guide those who were, for whatever intellectual reason, unable to control themselves. Odds are we'd write something similar today.
Jesus, son of God or Prophet?......
This is the one that is cause for many cautiously posed questions for me personally. Based on the information that is being discovered every day, I often wonder who this man really was. Since this is a volume unto itself, let it suffice to say that regardless of whether he was born of a mortal or omnipitant being, his lessons and life were the message....and that is what is important.
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Thanks for your honestly shortstuff.
Naturally people become defensive and unfortunately, hostile on these topics. But if you ask anyone here that knows me, I'm NEVER defensive or hostile.
These topics tend to stay more civil when we say we don't believe in or agree with someone else's beliefs, rather than call them BS.
That would be like me saying saying your avatar is BS, when I could just as easily say that I don't agree with your choice of bra color. lol
BTW, nice avatar and nice back shot.
Naturally people become defensive and unfortunately, hostile on these topics. But if you ask anyone here that knows me, I'm NEVER defensive or hostile.
These topics tend to stay more civil when we say we don't believe in or agree with someone else's beliefs, rather than call them BS.
That would be like me saying saying your avatar is BS, when I could just as easily say that I don't agree with your choice of bra color. lol
BTW, nice avatar and nice back shot.well thank you, i don't want peoploe to think I am just prejudiced and not open minded, I am very and that is how I came to my conclusion, so thank you for the honesty. 
This is just a discussion, not a dispute. Just knocking around ideas.
Oh yeah, sorry for the book
Trouble is, it ain't finished yet.
Oh yeah, sorry for the book
Trouble is, it ain't finished yet.
he he look at another thread i did do that today at someone else LOL
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I could call you names....Originally posted by BUSTINOUT
Well halleluah, someone has finally come to this board(shortstuff) and not mistaken what I said and called me names within the first ten minutes that they met me. Kinda refreshing.
IF YOU REALLY WANT!!!
IF YOU REALLY NEED IT!!!
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This point is debatable. There is a reference in Job to a "behemoth." (SP?)
I have trouble interpreting Genesis and I get in trouble constantly at my church b/c I intepret the Hebrew word "yom" in Genesis to mean either a 24-hour day or a period of time. Don't get me wrong, I believe the theory of evolution is one of the most unsupported scientific theories of all time. I am not motivated by a desire to reconcile the Bible with evolution. Evolution is absurd.
However, if "yom" means a period of time, we have an easier time with the dinosaurs and the apparent age of the earth.
I am a Christrian. I believe that before the foundation of the world, God chose me and therefore I believe. I believe in the Bible. I believe God sent Jesus Christ to die for MY sin and those who believe in him will inherit the kingdom of God (Heaven.) Those who do not, will not. That message may be offesive to some, but it is the Gospel and I believe it.
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I should point out that by evolution, I am not talking about what is refered to as micro-evolution. The best example of micro-evolution would be the polar bear. Clearly, white bears have an advantage in the polar regions so white bears survived.....
this type of species adaptation does clearly happen.
However, a fish sprouting wings or legs ...ah....no!
this type of species adaptation does clearly happen.
However, a fish sprouting wings or legs ...ah....no!
I enjoin this discussion not to debate but to state a portion of my beliefs.
Little can be expressed in written word to adequately convey my feelings here. So I am compelled somewhat beyond prose and more toward imagery and metaphor to convey some small part of this. Suffer me if you will.
Yes I do [follow a Religion] just like everyone else does (if you think you are not then you are deceiving yourself). I do so because I hold with conviction that the very nature of humankind is much more than can be readily fathomed or conceived from a parochial and temporal state of physical and intellectual insight; and I thereby reject the religion of secularism or humanism and endeavor to follow Christian traditions and teachings.
An intimate link with The Divine Creator is available to those who do not distract themselves. This is the Source of my conviction. I assert this axiomatically from a perspective that I trust and personally know to be true. Rather than grasping for equality with God as one would pick an apple in the garden I have come to realize it is much more polite and proper to trust that the garden grows for a purpose. And there is always the high hope we may be invited to share in a complete banquet rather than sit outside the gates in cold isolation clutching stolen fruits; fruits that appeal only to a particular and narrow taste or current fancy (thesis) de-jour.
My intellect, for the portion that I have been granted, is stunned into reverent silence by the magnificent order present in Creation. It screams with deafening majesty ??? can???t you hear it too? It???s inconceivably infinite in grandeur, beauty and mystery; and this is only from what is discernable to human perception. No doubt there is boundless more. This dichotomy between perception and ???What Is??? hidden ignites inspiration and brings a fiery twinkle to the eyes of any inclined to seek out truth. And the awareness of that dichotomy and the admission of imperfection is perhaps the great sieve that separates the goats from the sheep. I have come to believe that indifference or the pious devotion to uninspired human explanation (which stems from infantile humanistic logic) always leads to vanity, self worship (the big modern false god and religion of self), and eventually self-destruction. Not all things in Creation are causal or explainable solely from the physical dimension. The only bridge of logic I offer here is that God is Truth and God is manifest in Spirit; and the Truth must be consistently manifest in all things past, present and future; and Truth consistently exists in both physical and spiritual dimensions. So truth centered logic that considers spiritual dimensions can be instrumental ??? but it takes more. Yes this requires the gift of Faith ??? so ask for it!
I embrace a Fransiscan perspective. The Moon light compliments the eye???s fiery twinkle; and the Moon???s illumination is a soft reflection received from the Sun (concept borrowed from St. Franci's ???Brother Sun, Sister Moon???); and the Sun is but a small but purposely placed point of twinkling light in the Cosmos. The Cosmos is but a single reflection from a single facet of the Creator???s Will. Dare we even speak casually about such Majesty? Fear you ask? Wrong question.
I believe that we are beckoned to fruitful participation as beloved and oftentimes errant ???children??? to join as part of a Divine Family; to do our part to advance a Divine Will. I am compelled in much the same way that a child is drawn to the embrace of its parents; with a desire to learn, to grow and to find ways to gain approval or favor. Is Faith a part of this? Yes. I have faith and trust that I will be assisted to grow and to be more than I currently am so that I may more instrumental to actions that serve a divine purpose and honor my Heavenly Father.
Back to fear. Is Fear a part of this? It really transcends fear. It???s more like profound respect and thankfulness for being offered the opportunity to participate in this wonderful Creation. Mistakes are forgivable (and corrected ??? sometimes painfully). Fear is only relevant if one fails to accept the divine invitation through willful and malicious rejection or if one becomes useless. Such a person then only adds to the entropy of the great dump (called ???Hell??? in the current vernacular). Hell by definition is to be completely isolated and shut off from God and all his Love, Mercy and Grace and any person or heavenly being that loves God ??? a very scary and lonely thought. But true fear exists only in the absence of God - and God is with us here and now. So I don???t focus on fear since I am focusing on keeping in God???s favor and infinite mercy and forgiveness. If I am receptive to God as his child then it is his job to get me home. What is there to fear if I have faith? God can't fail me if I don't choose to walk away from him. Even if I wander off - he will always send his shepherd to find me as long as I do not hide myself and reject even this act of compassion.
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Great post DM, thanksOriginally posted by DaMayor
Religion was created by man, for man. Unfortunately, in some cases it has become a business rather than a shared belief system, which is what has turned people like Prince off. And I agree, or understand, to some extent. Of course, this is not to say that all churches are bad, or that all religion is a waste of time.
The key word here is faith. Now, my Grandmother's definition of faith might vary drastically from mine, but all in all, it is faith that keeps us all afloat. Whether you believe that Jesus was the son of God or just a man, or that Allah is the only God, whatever.....It is our belief and trust in that innate "good" that is housed deep within us that directs and guides us. Not beautiful architectural structures with steeples that stretch into the clouds, not great speakers who inspire us via their extensive theatrical training, not beautiful harp music or a gelded offerring plate overflowing with bills. It's about pressing on when you've asked a question and received no answer, and believing that your kids will do a better job with this world than you have, and maintaining confidence that when it is all over, and you take your last breath, that the light at the end of the tunnel will be more than your brain powering down.
While the movie Stigmata was perhaps not the finest film to ever hit the screen, it did introduce me to the writings of St. Thomas, which were (indirectly) quoted:
"The kingdom of God is within you and all around you. It is not within buildings of wood or stone. Split a piece of wood and you will find me. Look beneath a stone and I am there."
I was Baptist, now I'm Methodist. It doesn't really matter. It is simply about doing the right thing.
and I completely agree....
this pretty much sums up my belief
I grew up in an Assembly of God church, protestant. I attended a christian based private school for 3 years 3,4,&5 grades. People probably see me as a non-practicing christian...but I feel i don't have to go to church to be close to God. God and I have a relationship, no one understands it better than him and I. I believe Jesus Christ is my savior. I believe what I believe because of faith not brain washing or fear. I feel a connection with God, and until you feel it...you wouldn't understand. I pray everyone will eventually find that connection and relationship...it is the only relationship sure to last eternity!!!Pepper,
I was wondering if you have heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? (www.drdino.com). He talks about dinosaurs and the age of the earth.
I was wondering if you have heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? (www.drdino.com). He talks about dinosaurs and the age of the earth.
Feel free to explain.
It is an opinion that ultimately all people who follow a religion do it in fear of suffering the wrath of their "god" in the afterlife.
My post?
My post was written off the top of my head last night. I live in the UK and don't know what "sophamore" even means. A schooling term? Also, philosophy is not part of the curicculum in British schools. I've never sat a philosophy class in my life.
I believe in the big bang theory creating matter.
This gave rise to the elements we're familiar with today. Over time things got more complex. Then, i'm not sure how or why, but mitochondria formed or appeared. These lead to single-celled organisms and bacteria and such. Between then and now, evolution.
At least, until something else more believable is discovered, this is the best theory.
If you scroll up a couple of my posts, you'll see my stance on a superbeing or higher power. I just don't see truth in any man-made religion currently in existence.
This gave rise to the elements we're familiar with today. Over time things got more complex. Then, i'm not sure how or why, but mitochondria formed or appeared. These lead to single-celled organisms and bacteria and such. Between then and now, evolution.
At least, until something else more believable is discovered, this is the best theory.
If you scroll up a couple of my posts, you'll see my stance on a superbeing or higher power. I just don't see truth in any man-made religion currently in existence.
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TCD re: Evolution
Darwin's theory was that each species developed a trait that made the new species superior to the old. The new survived, the old did not. Correct?
Riddle me this:
How is 5% of a wing or 5% of an eye (note: not 5% vision, but 5% of an eye) an advantage? A developing wing would possibly have been a DISADVANTAGE, but hardly an advantage. 5% of vision would be an advantage but how does a growing eye provide advantage? And if it does not, Darwin's theory is wrong.
Vision and flight just do not require eyes and wings, they require many other "traits" to be of any use. Were these traits developing (randomly) while the eye was developing? And if so, why? How is a neuro-transmitter to the brain an advantage with no working eye?
Darwinism has real problems and when those problems are ignored or overlooked, Darwinism becomes a religion and NOT science. There is little empirical evidence to support evolution, that is not science.
Darwin's theory was that each species developed a trait that made the new species superior to the old. The new survived, the old did not. Correct?
Riddle me this:
How is 5% of a wing or 5% of an eye (note: not 5% vision, but 5% of an eye) an advantage? A developing wing would possibly have been a DISADVANTAGE, but hardly an advantage. 5% of vision would be an advantage but how does a growing eye provide advantage? And if it does not, Darwin's theory is wrong.
Vision and flight just do not require eyes and wings, they require many other "traits" to be of any use. Were these traits developing (randomly) while the eye was developing? And if so, why? How is a neuro-transmitter to the brain an advantage with no working eye?
Darwinism has real problems and when those problems are ignored or overlooked, Darwinism becomes a religion and NOT science. There is little empirical evidence to support evolution, that is not science.
Okay, I've got one for y'all. Now, this is pretty far fetched, but something to consider. (keep in mind that this was born of a drunken debate back during my college days)
What if evolution and/or the big bang, and Jesus' were all connected....all part of a project so vast and complex that we just don't have the intellectual (or psychological) ability to comprehend? Obviously, Jesus wasn't from around here...So, where was he from? (Son of) God, right? That's what we are told in the Bible. But where is God? We're taught that he resides in Heaven. Where is Heaven? Up in the clouds? Beyond the clouds? Perhaps somewhere near the outermost borders of the furthest Galaxy? See where I'm going? Yeah, it's weird...fasten your seat belts...
What if the planets, and the stars, the earth, and mankind were all part of an experiment performed by a being so advanced technologically that we could never understand [his] methods or motives? Wouldn't this, to some degree, bring together the various theories that have been disputed for years? What if we are all part of another's trial and error? What if the Big Bang was simply a miscalculation? Oops! Wrong formulation! Boom.
What if Evolution was driven by factors purposely introduced into the equation as time went on?
What about Jesus? Could Jesus have been a representative of God? Think about the Holy Trinity...Father, Son and Holy Ghost(spirit)....could Jesus have been a representation of God in human form? Something we could relate to, and hopefully, learn from? Part of a distant race, again, more advanced both technologically and spiritually than we? (Yes, I'm talking about E.T.'s) Wouldn't this explain his good deeds, his ability to heal, raise the dead, levitate, etc.?
What if we live in a big old ant farm......and we're the ants?
Just something to consider.....I don't pass out pamphlets on this.
What if evolution and/or the big bang, and Jesus' were all connected....all part of a project so vast and complex that we just don't have the intellectual (or psychological) ability to comprehend? Obviously, Jesus wasn't from around here...So, where was he from? (Son of) God, right? That's what we are told in the Bible. But where is God? We're taught that he resides in Heaven. Where is Heaven? Up in the clouds? Beyond the clouds? Perhaps somewhere near the outermost borders of the furthest Galaxy? See where I'm going? Yeah, it's weird...fasten your seat belts...
What if the planets, and the stars, the earth, and mankind were all part of an experiment performed by a being so advanced technologically that we could never understand [his] methods or motives? Wouldn't this, to some degree, bring together the various theories that have been disputed for years? What if we are all part of another's trial and error? What if the Big Bang was simply a miscalculation? Oops! Wrong formulation! Boom.
What if Evolution was driven by factors purposely introduced into the equation as time went on?
What about Jesus? Could Jesus have been a representative of God? Think about the Holy Trinity...Father, Son and Holy Ghost(spirit)....could Jesus have been a representation of God in human form? Something we could relate to, and hopefully, learn from? Part of a distant race, again, more advanced both technologically and spiritually than we? (Yes, I'm talking about E.T.'s) Wouldn't this explain his good deeds, his ability to heal, raise the dead, levitate, etc.?
What if we live in a big old ant farm......and we're the ants?
Just something to consider.....I don't pass out pamphlets on this.
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*IM members everywhere scratch their heads*
