Do you give a shit about a turtle or clean energy?

[KelJu]

I'm insinuating nothing. I'm flat out stating that I've never seen a credible study that shows anything like real proof that mankind is adding to the rising temperatures.

That chart that Al Gore showed about the causality of global temperature and CO2? It's complete crap. People (you in this case) talk about how CO2 controls the temperature, but that's not the relationship that the data shows. What it does show is that without man-made CO2, the temperature controls how much CO2 is in the air. CO2 tracks with the temp until humans dump tonnes of CO2 into the air. As CO2 skyrockets (by 100s of times) the temp meanders along in the same course it's had for millennia.

Yet again, I don't listen to Al Gore, because Al Gore is not a scientist. He is a politician, which means he always has something to sell, and I'm not buying. Everyone tries to use Al Gore as evidence to why you should not believe that humans add to the problem of global warming. That is the real crap. Al Gore shouldn't even be brought up in a scientific discussion about climate change.

Also, CO2 is only one of many greenhouse gases that may have raised the average temperature. It isn't cut and dry that CO2 is the cause. It is extremely complicated how one variable relates to another. Every national science academy that has issued a statement on climate change, agree that humans are probably the cause of increased temperatures.
Temperature does not independently control CO2. CO2 and the other major greenhouse gases exist in a synergistic relationship with each other. If you change either variable, you change the other. If you increase greenhouse gases, the temperature goes up. If the temperature goes up, more greenhouse gasses build up. That is essentially the only thing we do know for certain. How much of the increase is caused by man? Nobody knows. But it is ridiculous to say that you don't buy into the idea that humans don't play a part. When you increase greenhouse gases, you are playing a part. That is fact.

You say this, and then you go on about how we can stop it if we just clean up our act. Which is nonsense. We can't stop it.

I was going to go on, by I'm tired of this. I'm tired of people not thinking. I'm tired of people buying into fashionable trends and throwing their minds out the window.

Meh.

I said I wanted cleaner air, cleaner water, and cheaper power. I didn't say shit about stopping global warming. I said that greener technologies have benefits in of themselves that make them worthwhile to invest a little time and money into. Slowing down the trend of polluting the hell out of the environment takes effort and time. You are not tired of people not thinking. You are tired of people trying. Your attitude is that we might as well give up and stay the path we are on. That is pretty lazy.

 

[DOMS]

DOMS not to call your bluff, but do you have any refutable proof that states Al Gore lied about that? Secondly, why would he lie?

There are plenty of people that offer proof that Al Gore's show was junk. The most obvious is the relationship that exists between CO2 and global temperatures. All you need to do is look at the chart to know it doesn't show what he says it does.

As to why: he owns companies that will make money from trying to stop global warming. Plus, he gets fame. Money and fame, go figure.

 

[DOMS]

Also, CO2 is only one of many greenhouse gases that may have raised the average temperature. It isn't cut and dry that CO2 is the cause. It is extremely complicated how one variable relates to another. Every national science academy that has issued a statement on climate change, agree that humans are probably the cause of increased temperatures.

May... Probably... Yeah...

There's no solid proof, but we must stop global warming now!

The most public proponent are making money off global warming and it's been show that scientist will lie to make the studies say what they want. It's also been shown that many scientists are forced to support global warming if they want to get grants and positions. Talk about reasonable doubt.

Have you even bothered doing your own thinking? When did the current warming trend start? Is this the warmest the worlds ever been? How far south did the polar ice cap go? Has the recent warming trend outside of past examples? Why was Mars warming up right along with the Earth? Why has there been a cooling trend over the last two or so years?

I challenge you to answer those questions and tell me you still believe that mankind has caused, or can stop, global warming?

I said I wanted cleaner air, cleaner water, and cheaper power. I didn't say shit about stopping global warming. I said that greener technologies have benefits in of themselves that make them worthwhile to invest a little time and money into. Slowing down the trend of polluting the hell out of the environment takes effort and time. You are not tired of people not thinking. You are tired of people trying. Your attitude is that we might as well give up and stay the path we are on. That is pretty lazy.

You did say that you bought into global warming. It's in your post. But...I agree that mankind needs to clean up its act. But we need to put aside bullshit like man-made global warming and focus on real issues.

 

[danzik17]

Look all this talk about global warming? I'm freezing my goddamn ass off. It's like -3 degrees in Connecticut.

 

[juggernaut]

Celsius? what is this Celsius you speak of?

 

[DOMS]

Celsius? what is this Celsius you speak of?

It's the temperature measurement used by terrorists.

 

[danzik17]

Those things are inefficient, labor intensive, require too many holes in the roof and flat out suck for longevity, not to mention they produce heat making the attic space hotter because there is not air circulation to cool them, silicon in microchips are just like silicon in PV modules, they don't perform well in heat.....

I'm just curious from a comparison standpoint, how much does an installation generally cost for a home that uses an average of 11KWH/day per month?

 

[juggernaut]

I have a house powered by 1.21 jiggawatts of power. At the speed of 88 miles an hour, you'll see some serious shit.

 

[juggernaut]

YouTube Video

 

[maniclion]

I'm just curious from a comparison standpoint, how much does an installation generally cost for a home that uses an average of 11KWH/day per month?

$18,000 - $20,000 roughly for a Pure Grid-Tie system....

If you install Solar Water Heating first (or at least a Natural Gas instant on demand water heater), for $4000 you might only need $9000 worth of PV power...

 

[NeilPearson]

So, youre saying that the carbon emissions that we breathe in, that have been melting the polar caps, that have been killing species of animals and making acid rain is a big lie. Do us all a favor, shut the fuck up and really read newspapers, not smokinggun.com or mtv news you fucking twit.

As for turtles, I like em too, but if it comes to down to a turtle and solar energy, that fucking turtle will turn into a cigar holder for me.

How about not reading bias newpapers written by people that have zero scientific background.

Also take scientific reports with a grain of salt from agencies that would lose billions in scientific grant money if global warming wasn't real.

This guy is an expert:

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles 2007/MornerInterview.pdf

There are experts on both sides of the fence on this. Follow the money trail and you will find the expert that think it's real

I am all for alternate energy. It is the way of the future but I'm not convinced global warming is real. In the 70s they were afraid the emissions were deflecting sunlight and creating a new ice age.

Neocon Express: Newsweek 1975: Scientists Predict Massive Global CoolingNeocon Express

Time had a similar article around the same time.

And then there were the e-mails that were leaked a while ago:

Global Warming: Leaked emails and baffled scientists :: Global Warming :: bLogicus

There are a lot of huge holes in the global warming theory

 

[NeilPearson]

Arctic ice is melting... but Antarctic ice is growing.

Some glacers are melting while others are growing.

Sea levels are rising in some areas but in others they are falling. This has more to do with the ground rising and falling than it does with the oceans.

The alarmists are focusing on the areas of world that support their theories so they can get grant money. They completely ignore the other areas where the reverse is happening.

Things naturally change over time. I don't believe the average worldwide temperature is changing. The heat might be moving around. There are natural cycles at work here too. I don't believe we really know what is going on.

 

[NeilPearson]

Stagnating Temperatures: Climatologists Baffled by Global Warming Time-Out - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

 

[maniclion]

Man you guys are all stupid...the main reason we need to save all the oil and natural gas as we can is because we are spiraling in towards the Sun, eventually we are going to move to the warmer side of the Goldilocks Zone and have to build a massive rocket booster to tugboat us back into the Just Right area, that's gonna take a lot of energy to build.....

 

[juggernaut]

or with all of these planets we're finding, we can all move. Or do a Battlestar Galactica thing.

 

[maniclion]

or with all of these planets we're finding, we can all move. Or do a Battlestar Galactica thing.

We can't get along in our own home, just try moving us to some new neighborhood and we'll have more than ourselves to be afraid of.....

 

[juggernaut]

We can't get along in our own home, just try moving us to some new neighborhood and we'll have more than ourselves to be afraid of.....

didnt you ever see Battlestar Galactica??? Not that old 70s loser shit-I'm talking about the new one...seriously one of the best shows EVER.

 

[maniclion]

didnt you ever see Battlestar Galactica??? Not that old 70s loser shit-I'm talking about the new one...seriously one of the best shows EVER.

Those people couldn't get along with one another, nor their own clones....we'll have to spend a few generations on a starship before we reach an Earth like planet, how long do you think people could keep it together before the Big Endians try to destroy the Little Endians on board that ship....?

 

[juggernaut]

Those people couldn't get along with one another, nor their own clones....we'll have to spend a few generations on a starship before we reach an Earth like planet, how long do you think people could keep it together before the Big Endians try to destroy the Little Endians on board that ship....?

dammit Jim, I'm a doctor! Not a bricklayer!

 

[DOMS]

Arctic ice is melting... but Antarctic ice is growing.

Some glacers are melting while others are growing.

Sea levels are rising in some areas but in others they are falling. This has more to do with the ground rising and falling than it does with the oceans.

The alarmists are focusing on the areas of world that support their theories so they can get grant money. They completely ignore the other areas where the reverse is happening.

Things naturally change over time. I don't believe the average worldwide temperature is changing. The heat might be moving around. There are natural cycles at work here too. I don't believe we really know what is going on.

Not to mention the simple fact that, at one point, the polar ice cap extended halfway down into what is modern day Illinois. But I'm sure that all that melting is our fault...