Does more mass = greater strength gains

[Squaggleboggin]

Yes it will, if you eat enough food. Of course, your routine is extremely low in volume, so hypertrophy will probably be limited in comparison to what it could be assuming the proper diet.

As long as the decreased rate of increased hypertrophy won't limit my strength gains in any way (assuming proper diet), then I'm still happy.

All the top powerlifters and strongmen use drugs too. That doesn't invalidate my point one bit.

Then consider tested powerlifters instead as compared to actually drug-free bodybuilders (since 'tested' sometimes means different things when it comes to bodybuilding competitions). Do you really think the bodybuilders could set records against the tested powerlifters? I guess I'm having a hard time with all this simply because the strength trainers get screwed over. Think about it... If you trained for strength your entire life and worked for years to set a world record and someone else broke it just because they decided to change their training for a small amount of time in comparison to you, wouldn't you be mad? I guess I'm putting myself in those shoes. On the other hand, some of the powerlifters and strongmen are huge and could perhaps with bodybuilding competitions if they decided to alter their training.

 

[P-funk]

If you trained for strength your entire life and worked for years to set a world record and someone else broke it just because they decided to change their training for a small amount of time in comparison to you, wouldn't you be mad? I guess I'm putting myself in those shoes. On the other hand, some of the powerlifters and strongmen are huge and could perhaps with bodybuilding competitions if they decided to alter their training.

go back and read foremans post on genetics. The best guys in powerlifting (tested or non) are there because (a) they train their asses off and have for many solid years and (b) they have incredibly good genetics (higher ratio of type II to type I fibers) and the proper genetic build (limb length, muscle length, etc) for the sport.

the best guys in the sport of bodybuilding (tested and non) are there because they (a) train their asses off and have for many solid years and (b) they have incredible genetics (good ratio or type II to type I fibers) and the proper genetics build (limb length, muscle bellies, wasit to shoulder ratio, etc) for the sport.

Some are genetically gifted enough to cross over between the two (Johnnie Jackson) and others are not (I don't think Jay Cutler would make a very good powerlifter). It is all about the genetics of the specific athlete you are talking about.


Michael Jordan was an amazing basketball player.....arguably the best.....He was a decent baseball player. Just because someone is amazing at "A" does not mean that with a small alteration to training they can also be amazing at "B".

 

[CowPimp]

As long as the decreased rate of increased hypertrophy won't limit my strength gains in any way (assuming proper diet), then I'm still happy.

I think it will. The best way to achieve optimal strength is a combination of both types of training. Hence why conjugate periodization is so effective.

Then consider tested powerlifters instead as compared to actually drug-free bodybuilders (since 'tested' sometimes means different things when it comes to bodybuilding competitions). Do you really think the bodybuilders could set records against the tested powerlifters? I guess I'm having a hard time with all this simply because the strength trainers get screwed over. Think about it... If you trained for strength your entire life and worked for years to set a world record and someone else broke it just because they decided to change their training for a small amount of time in comparison to you, wouldn't you be mad? I guess I'm putting myself in those shoes. On the other hand, some of the powerlifters and strongmen are huge and could perhaps with bodybuilding competitions if they decided to alter their training.

Yes, I do think the bodybuilders could be competitive. I'm not saying after one macrocycle of strength training they will be smashing records, but a few years of altered training could make some of them seriously competitive. The reverse is true too. If some of those big ass powerlifters would stop carrying around so much fat, they could be seriously competitive bodybuilders!

You have to remember squaggle, powerlifters don't only train at 85% intensity and above. They used hypertrophy geared parameters too, and eat like fucking garbage disposals. That's why they are not only strong, but big too.

 

[Squaggleboggin]

go back and read foremans post on genetics. The best guys in powerlifting (tested or non) are there because (a) they train their asses off and have for many solid years and (b) they have incredibly good genetics (higher ratio of type II to type I fibers) and the proper genetic build (limb length, muscle length, etc) for the sport.

the best guys in the sport of bodybuilding (tested and non) are there because they (a) train their asses off and have for many solid years and (b) they have incredible genetics (good ratio or type II to type I fibers) and the proper genetics build (limb length, muscle bellies, wasit to shoulder ratio, etc) for the sport.

Some are genetically gifted enough to cross over between the two (Johnnie Jackson) and others are not (I don't think Jay Cutler would make a very good powerlifter). It is all about the genetics of the specific athlete you are talking about.


Michael Jordan was an amazing basketball player.....arguably the best.....He was a decent baseball player. Just because someone is amazing at "A" does not mean that with a small alteration to training they can also be amazing at "B".

That's true, but I was talking only about the people who worked their asses off, neglecting everything else (including genetics). I realize that using a champion would be a bad idea for this comparison.

I guess I took CowPimp's idea that some could change and applied it to most. Damn it to hell...

 

[CowPimp]

Some are genetically gifted enough to cross over between the two (Johnnie Jackson) and others are not (I don't think Jay Cutler would make a very good powerlifter). It is all about the genetics of the specific athlete you are talking about.


Michael Jordan was an amazing basketball player.....arguably the best.....He was a decent baseball player. Just because someone is amazing at "A" does not mean that with a small alteration to training they can also be amazing at "B".

Exactly. Not everyone will be able to cross over to the other sport with amazing results, but I'm sure some of them could.

 

[GFR]

If you get stronger you don't necessarily get bigger. How else do powerlifters maintain their weight classes but get stronger if that is the case?

I could teach you about certain steroids that build no size and yeild great power...

 

[CowPimp]

I could teach you about certain steroids that build no size and yeild great power...

I know about those too. However, I have personally increased my strength without gaining weight in the past. Another example of someone drug free doing the same is another fella on these boards, Deeznuts. He was benching about 225 and squatting/deadlifting in the 300s (Maybe even 400 for the DL) at 114 pounds. You don't think a specific type of training had anything to do with that?

 

[P-funk]

That's true, but I was talking only about the people who worked their asses off, neglecting everything else (including genetics). I realize that using a champion would be a bad idea for this comparison.

I guess I took CowPimp's idea that some could change and applied it to most. Damn it to hell...

everyone works their asses off....it doesn't mean that they are going to be great. An amazing athlete doesn't just train their asses off...they have genetics. Some are more gifted then others. It is impossible to not take it into consideration.

I work my ass of in the gym, man do I train hard....ya know what though? I will probably never win a world championship and I will probably never even qualify for a national championship. No matter how hard I work I just don't have everythign I need to get there. That may sound negative and people will say that becuse I feel that way I will never make it but ya know what....I am not a moron. I know I am not genetically gifted. But I work hard and it is fun to improve as much as I possibly can.


In high school all I thought about was playing baseball and getting the chance to go on and play in college and then the Majors. Everyone wants that! Man, I worked my ass off and I am not going to lie...I was a pretty decent player. I was quick, I could put the ball in play (almost never struck out), I had a good arm (player right field), was good with the glove (also played 2nd base). I worked my fucking ass off to be decent. Man, there were kids that were so fucking gifted....they worked half as hard and could give a shit less but all the colleges took looks at them, they got recruited, they played on the national team, they made high school allstar teams.....WHAT THE FUCK! I worked harder! I wanted it more! they didn't care....Ya know what? Tough shit. Life isn't fair. No matter how hard I work I can never be as good as those guys. they had the genetics....even though I had the work ethic. That is the way it is.

So yes.....some may work hard as hell to be a great powerlifter and some oiled up BBer may walk in the room and out bench them because he just has better potential. Such is life.

 

[GFR]

I know about those too. However, I have personally increased my strength without gaining weight in the past. Another example of someone drug free doing the same is another fella on these boards, Deeznuts. He was benching about 225 and squatting/deadlifting in the 300s (Maybe even 400 for the DL) at 114 pounds. You don't think a specific type of training had anything to do with that?

I have also...and I have gotten bigger with no strength increaes.....100% genetic.....my legs get huge...if I stop lifting they do not shrink much but I lose all my power...when I train them again they get bigger than they were and can actually have less strength.....my upper body is nothing like this.....its not my training its my genetics.

Example....at 26 inches and 9% body fat..100% natural I could raw ATG squat 385 for sets of 6......now at 27.5 and 15% Bf I can raw ATG 225 for sets of 10.....I do have more fat so my legs are probably only 26 at 9% still but my power is down by a huge margin....nothing to do with training all genetic, when I stopped lifting for 2 years my upper body shrunk 5x more than my legs.

 

[CowPimp]

I have also...and I have gotten bigger with no strength increaes.....100% genetic.....my legs get huge...if I stop lifting they do not shrink much but I lose all my power...when I train them again they get bigger than they were and can actually have less strength.....my upper body is nothing like this.....its not my training its my genetics.

Example....at 26 inches and 9% body fat..100% natural I could raw ATG squat 385 for sets of 6......now at 27.5 and 15% Bf I can raw ATG 225 for sets of 10.....I do have more fat so my legs are probably only 26 at 9% still but my power is down by a huge margin....nothing to do with training all genetic, when I stopped lifting for 2 years my upper body shrunk 5x more than my legs.

So what you're saying is that you don't believe there is a difference in training for hypertrophy or strength, and that your results are 100% related to genetics?

 

[GFR]

So what you're saying is that you don't believe there is a difference in training for hypertrophy or strength, and that your results are 100% related to genetics?

No I'm not saying that, but I do think the difference is not as big as most people think.

 

[CowPimp]

No I'm not saying that, but I do think the difference is not as big as most people think.

Okay, fair enough.