Fat and Carb question

[YouthD]

What causes insulin spikes? I am on a cutting diet and i heard that when you combine high fat and high carb foods, it cause an insulin spike and causes you to store fat in your body(Or something like that, might be just BS).

The fats and carbs i`m eating are all Complex Carbs and good fat(Oil, peanuts).

Thanks.

 

[BBPowder]

What causes insulin spikes? I am on a cutting diet and i heard that when you combine high fat and high carb foods, it cause an insulin spike and causes you to store fat in your body(Or something like that, might be just BS).

The fats and carbs i`m eating are all Complex Carbs and good fat(Oil, peanuts).

Thanks.

Last I looked into this topic I read an interesting article how even complex carbs cause insulin spikes. Just keep everything simple, if you have carbs, have healthy fats with them.

If diet is good and you are active you will be fine. Your body is always going to try to store fats, it's a natural survival mechanism. In order to cut fats to low levels you basically have methods to counter this mechanism. There is no shortage of cutting diets on the Internet.

 

[YouthD]

How much is the max amount of good fats when eating high carb meals? How much when eating low carb meals?

 

[BBPowder]

How much is the max amount of good fats when eating high carb meals? How much when eating low carb meals?

Honestly, I wouldn't say I'm qualified to answer this for you. I don't want to risk giving you bad advice. Hit up the nutrition section and online journals and see what others are doing.

I personally use 40/40/20%
Carbs/protein/fats

 

[YouthD]

Got it, thanks anyway.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

What causes insulin spikes?

High Glycemic Foods

The glycemic index measures insulin response to specific carbohydrates.

The higher the index rating, the greater insulin release.

Low Glycemic Foods

There is less insulin release with low glycemic index foods.

Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load

This provide you with the glycemic index of most carbohydrates.

Insulin Timing

Insulin is both an anabolic (muscle building hormone) and a lipogenic (fat making hormone).

Thus, the key is to manipulate the timing of insulin to increase muscle mass and minimize fat storage.

Post Workout Insulin Spike

You want to consume a post workout beverage/meal that elevates insulin. Doing so, provide an anabolic (muscle building) enviorment.

Minimizing Insulin Release

Generally speaking, the rest of your day should be devoted to consuming foods that minimize insulin release.

I am on a cutting diet and i heard that when you combine high fat and high carb foods, it cause an insulin spike and causes you to store fat in your body(Or something like that, might be just BS).

Carbohydrates Stimulate Insulin

Insulin is primarily stimulated by high glycemic index carbodhydrates.

Fats

Fats do not appear to stimulate insulin.

Proteins

Protein was once thought not stimulate insulin. However, new research indicates that certain amino do.

Insulin Index

This the latest method of measuring insulin reponse that extents beyond the glycemic index. Foods once regarded as being low glycemic index (not triggering much of any insulin release) evidenlty do.

Milk Example

In the cutting phase, bodybuilders have either avoided milk or cut back their consumption of it. Their reasoning was that milk interferred in cutting body fat.

However, the glycemic index indicated that should not be true.

Anecdotal Evidence

The Insulin Index support the bodybuilder reason to either elimiate or drastically reduce milk consumpiton when cutting.

Leucine

Leucine (one of the Branch Chain Amino Acids) appears to stimulate insulin. Ironically, leucine is now being touted at the driving force in protein synthesis. Protein Synthesis = Muscle Mass.

The fats and carbs i`m eating are all Complex Carbs and good fat(Oil, peanuts).

Complex Carbohydrates

Many complex carbohydrates have high a glycemic index. What you need to look at is their glycemic index number.

Diabetic Diet

Eating like a diet is the best method of insuring you minimize insulin.

That Means...

1) Consuming Low Gycemic Index Foods during the day.

2) Consuming fats and proteins with carbohydrates, rather than eating carbohydrates by themselves.

Combining fats and proteins with carbohydrates will decrease insulin. Fats and proteins act somewhat like a braking device.

Hypothetical Number Example

Let's say you consume a carbohydrate with a glycemic index of 70. Along with that you consume fat that has a 0 glycemic index number and protein that has maybe a 10 glycemic index rating.

Numberical Average

Now let's find your meals average glycemic index rating.

Addition

70 Carbohydrate
0 Fat
10 Protein
80 Total

Division

80 divide by 3 = 26.6

Very Little Insulin

26.6 means very little insulin is trickling in, no spike occurs.

It is not quit that simple but it give you and idea of how to manipulate you diet.

Take Home Message

1) Spike Insulin after your workout.

2) Minimize Insulin the rest of the day.

With that said, this is more in Sassy's area than mine...hopefully she will chime in here.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[jimm]

High Glycemic Foods

The glycemic index measures insulin response to specific carbohydrates.

The higher the index rating, the greater insulin release.

Low Glycemic Foods

There is less insulin release with low glycemic index foods.

Glycemic Index and Glycemic Load

This provide you with the glycemic index of most carbohydrates.

Insulin Timing

Insulin is both an anabolic (muscle building hormone) and a lipogenic (fat making hormone).

Thus, the key is to manipulate the timing of insulin to increase muscle mass and minimize fat storage.

Post Workout Insulin Spike

You want to consume a post workout beverage/meal that elevates insulin. Doing so, provide an anabolic (muscle building) enviorment.

Minimizing Insulin Release

Generally speaking, the rest of your day should be devoted to consuming foods that minimize insulin release.



Carbohydrates Stimulate Insulin

Insulin is primarily stimulated by high glycemic index carbodhydrates.

Fats

Fats do not appear to stimulate insulin.

Proteins

Protein was once thought not stimulate insulin. However, new research indicates that certain amino do.

Insulin Index

This the latest method of measuring insulin reponse that extents beyond the glycemic index. Foods once regarded as being low glycemic index (not triggering much of any insulin release) evidenlty do.

Milk Example

In the cutting phase, bodybuilders have either avoided milk or cut back their consumption of it. Their reasoning was that milk interferred in cutting body fat.

However, the glycemic index indicated that should not be true.

Anecdotal Evidence

The Insulin Index support the bodybuilder reason to either elimiate or drastically reduce milk consumpiton when cutting.

Leucine

Leucine (one of the Branch Chain Amino Acids) appears to stimulate insulin. Ironically, leucine is now being touted at the driving force in protein synthesis. Protein Synthesis = Muscle Mass.



Complex Carbohydrates

Many complex carbohydrates have high a glycemic index. What you need to look at is their glycemic index number.

Diabetic Diet

Eating like a diet is the best method of insuring you minimize insulin.

That Means...

1) Consuming Low Gycemic Index Foods during the day.

2) Consuming fats and proteins with carbohydrates, rather than eating carbohydrates by themselves.

Combining fats and proteins with carbohydrates will decrease insulin. Fats and proteins act somewhat like a braking device.

Hypothetical Number Example

Let's say you consume a carbohydrate with a glycemic index of 70. Along with that you consume fat that has a 0 glycemic index number and protein that has maybe a 10 glycemic index rating.

Numberical Average

Now let's find your meals average glycemic index rating.

Addition

70 Carbohydrate
0 Fat
10 Protein
80 Total

Division

80 divide by 3 = 26.6

Very Little Insulin

26.6 means very little insulin is trickling in, no spike occurs.

It is not quit that simple but it give you and idea of how to manipulate you diet.

Take Home Message

1) Spike Insulin after your workout.

2) Minimize Insulin the rest of the day.

With that said, this is more in Sassy's area than mine...hopefully she will chime in here.

Kenny Croxdale

Great post kenny

 

[l0newolf]

What causes insulin spikes? I am on a cutting diet and i heard that when you combine high fat and high carb foods, it cause an insulin spike and causes you to store fat in your body(Or something like that, might be just BS).

The fats and carbs i`m eating are all Complex Carbs and good fat(Oil, peanuts).

Thanks.

I will simplify this for you, if you are going to cut you will get best results from low carb, high protein. Set your ratios to 60-25-15, depending on how many calories you use for maintanance you can go from 500-1000 deficit.

Example meal plan


1) 1 cup of oatmeal peanut butter / 1 serving of whey protein

2) 2 servings of whey and flax seed oil serving

3) chicken breast and spinach/or brocolli

4) same as above

5) same as above

6) Serving of Whey and flax



This has worked for many and worked for me while cutting. Different types of foods have carbohydrates but they are not made the same. Simple sugar carbs like fruits contain natural sugars, the watermelon being the worse hit to your insulin, and the apple being a pretty decent hit to your insulin. Carbs coming from whole wheat, and oats have minimal effect on insulin. Such as brown rice, oatmeal, and whole wheat pasta. These are the carbs you want in general. You need a lot of protein to help your metabolism, and to protect your muscle from loss.

 

[YouthD]

Hi. Didn't think anyone would respond after a while.

Thanks for the info guys. I have a few new questions, hopefully it won't take a long time to get an answer to them.

I am currently bulking.
Now, after my lifting i eat this: White bread, cheese and a bunch of fruits. Is this a good after workout meal?
I get 44G of Protein, 106G of Carbs and 7G of Fat(Cause i've read you should minimize fat consumption after workouts).

My Complex Carb meals look like this: 30-40G of Protein, 100-120G of Complex Carbs and 8G of Fat.
Now, i know what you're thinking: Where do i get all my fat that i need if i eat low fat meals? Well, i eat about 15G of Fat from peanuts in between my meals.
Perhaps i'm doing somethings wrong, that is why i am here, so please correct me. Thanks.

 

[theCaptn']

How are you keeping your fat intake so low?

 

[YouthD]

I don't eat meat or fish so my diet revolves around fruits, vegies, dairy and bread. That is how i keep my fat intake so low. Though i eat 52G of Fat each day.

 

[theCaptn']

How much protein you getting in bro? Sources?

 

[YouthD]

I get 118G Protein, 356G Carbs and 52G Fat. The protein comes mostly from dairy products and everything else i eat(Fruits, vegies, peanuts, etc).

 

[theCaptn']

Won't get jacked off 118g bro. You don't eat eggs?

 

[YouthD]

Allergic to eggs, unfortunately.
I went for a 20/60/20 ratio with my calories, since i thought the body needed much more carbs than protein to grow. Should i go for 40/40/20? I'm 154 lbs and 5.9'.

 

[theCaptn']

I'm not qualified to advise in your case mate. Hopefully someone else can chip in.

 

[YouthD]

You are a Super Mod though. If you don't know, then who will? You can simply chip in with what you've learned from experience.

 

[theCaptn']

You're a sweet young man. Bless!

 

[YouthD]

Changed it to 150G Protein, 300G Carbs and 66G Fat. Looks better?

 

[theCaptn']

Changed it to 150G Protein, 300G Carbs and 66G Fat. Looks better?

You're kinda restricted with your diet in regards to protein. Maybe up your fats to 100g, think avocados

 

[YouthD]

I can get all the protein and fat i need unless you mean that dairy products limit me somehow. Which i can't see why, since the dairy products i eat are rich in protein, low fat and low carbs.

 

[theCaptn']

but you dont eat meat though.

 

[l0newolf]

I don't know how simpler we can make this for you but you need to get your maintenance calories and decide to go into a 500-1000 deficit. Then base your ratio to 60 percent protein, 25 carbs, and 15 fats.

Meals 1-2

.5 cup of oatmeal K (steel cut or rolled oats and no quick oats bullshit)
1 serving of all natural peanut butter
cinnamon
1-2 servings of whey

meals 3-5

chicken breast
spinach/green beans

meal 6

1-2 servings of casein protein.

 

[YouthD]

I don't know how simpler we can make this for you but you need to get your maintenance calories and decide to go into a 500-1000 deficit. Then base your ratio to 60 percent protein, 25 carbs, and 15 fats.

Meals 1-2

.5 cup of oatmeal K (steel cut or rolled oats and no quick oats bullshit)
1 serving of all natural peanut butter
cinnamon
1-2 servings of whey

meals 3-5

chicken breast
spinach/green beans

meal 6

1-2 servings of casein protein.

I'm not cutting though... I'm bulking. I've said so in my latest posts.

 

[theCaptn']

I'm not cutting though... I'm bulking. I've said so in my latest posts.

Use the same ratios but bump 500-1000 cals in surplus.

You ain't going to add fk all size if you don't eat the flesh of dead animals bro

 

[l0newolf]

I'm not cutting though... I'm bulking. I've said so in my latest posts.

Yea like he said up there sorry for the confusion. Just increase the quantity of carbs with the same meal plan. Some people eat brown rice, I like to eat oatmeal with 2 meals and brown rice with the others.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I can get all the protein and fat i need unless you mean that dairy products limit me somehow. Which i can't see why, since the dairy products i eat are rich in protein, low fat and low carbs.

The Capt'n

As he stated, you need to increase your fat intake. Consuming 52 gram of fat per day, isn't going to work.

Fats are essential for health and hormonal production.

Saturate Fats

These fats are essential for testosterone production. Consuming 52 gram of fat per day tell me your not getting enough saturated fat to turn on testosterone to build muscle mass.

Dairy, Low Fat

Dairy is anything low fat. Whole milk and cheeze contain a lot of fat.

Even low fat milk and cheeze have a fairly high percentage of fat.

Which Dairy

Rather than guess, exactly what dairy are you consuming? In other words, what is the item and how much fat is in it?

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

The complex carbs can actually spike up your sugar levels, so avoid that.

Blanket Statement

You cannot state that complex carbs spike your sugar (insulin).

Not all complex carbohyrates do that.

Glycemic Index

The Glycemic Index tell you which carbohydrates spike insulin and which don't.

Google Glycemic Index to find out which ones.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[theCaptn']

Blanket Statement

You cannot state that complex carbs spike your sugar (insulin).

Not all complex carbohyrates do that.

Glycemic Index

The Glycemic Index tell you which carbohydrates spike insulin and which don't.

Google Glycemic Index to find out which ones.

Kenny Croxdale

Kenny the OP doesn't eat meat or dairy. Personally I think his protein is too low for avoiding muscle atrophy on a cut.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Kenny the OP doesn't eat meat or dairy. Personally I think his protein is too low for avoiding muscle atrophy on a cut.

What are your thoughts?

Dairy

In post #11 and #13, he states that he eats dairy. He mentioned cheeze in #11.

So, I guessed (never good) that he meant milk, as well.

Protein

I have a different answer for a different day.

159 lbs/72 kilos

His protein consumption is 1.63 gram per kilo. Which falls into the general recommendations.

So, that appears to be ok.

Leucine

However, what drives Protein Synthesis is Leucine.

Meat

Research shows meats is composed of about 9% Leucine.

Dairy

Caseinate about 9% and whey upto 12% (more like 10%).

Anabolic Trigger

Leucine is an anabolic trigger. It trips the mTOR (Mammalian Target of Rapomysin) "Protein Synthesis" switch.

Leucine --> Protein Synthesis --> Muscle Growth

Vegetable Proteins

The precentage of Leucine is very low, approximaly 6%. Thus, vegetarians most likely are not getting enough Leucine to turn on the "Anabolic Switch".

118 Grams of Vegetable Protein Vs 118 Grams of Dairy Protein

118 Gram of Vegetable Protein = 7.08 Grams of Leucine (118 X 6%)

118 Grams of Dairy Protein = 10.62 (118 X 9%)

Dairy = 50% MORE Leucine

Consuming 50% more Leucine is going to dramatically increase Protein Synthesis, build muscle mass.

(10.62 - 7.08 = 3.54. 3.04/7.08 = 50%)

"Proten: How much and how often." Norton
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_ ... quency.pdf

One of the driving forces of 2 grams per kilo of body weight is that insures you getting enough Leucine to turn on the "anabolic switch".

A 200 lb bodybuilder consuming meat and dairy (2 gram/kg) would mean they are taking in approximately 20 grams of Leucine, which definitely keep the "anabolic switch" turned on.

Dr Layne Norton, PhD Nutrition explains this in his article.

Fixing The Problem

Vegetairans need to increase do one of the following...

1) Increase their vegetable protein intake.

2) Spike their vegetable intake with Leucine.

One research article demonstrated that enhancing wheat protein by adding Leucine was effective.

Back To YouthD

My thought is that he may not be consuming enough protein.

If he is, he many not be consuming qualtiy protein to obtain enough Leucine.

Kenny Croxdale