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First legally married gays in the US
- Thread starter iMan323
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I'm with Bonecrusher and Pylon, Brogers makes it sound so easy.....
You really should actually read up a little on case history before you form an opinion. Your idea of what should be done vs. the reality of what has happened to people in same sex relations is not the same in the real world. Judges and courts seldom see the law literally these days.
Place your self in that same position you choose to discriminate against and then ask if your rights should be different than anyone else's ... if you posses the mental capacity to do so.
The point that the majority of IM members have made here through out this thread is that the bigoted concepts of a small minded person with a selfish and shallow perspective should not be allowed to dictate to another what is to be his or her right.
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Lawl, his opinions come from the same place his shit does. Could be why they stink so much.
Estates are contested in homosexual and heterosexual relationships, it isn't some strange phenomenon that only happens to gays (a somewhat current and notorious example would be Anna Nicole Smith).
Once again, you fail to show how any rights are being infringed. Gays CAN pass their estates on to whomever they want, just like straight people can, and just like the crazy old woman can give her $12 million to her f'n dog. This was the point you made in your post, that their rights are being infringed because they CANNOT pass their estate on to their gay partner, this is false.
From your post, which I was addressing:
"BC you as a Cristian have no right to tell me as a gay man or as a Muslim who to leave my wealth too. In America that choice is my fundamental right."
So once again, you can infact leave your wealth to whomever you want. Sure, there are cases which overturn poorly written wills, no doubt, however this is not unique to gays, which you seem to think it is.
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Lawl, brogers is still posting. I am gonna kick your ass Iain if you quote him again!
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All I know is that if my family hates the guy I'm with, and they fight to have the will overturned to screw him out of what I want him to have - and win (with a properly written will that is), then I'm gonna be pissed 
and haunt all the people who caused pain to my guy!
I have only heard through other gay friends that this has happened on more that a few occasions (at least in Florida - Judges should not be allowed to dictate laws from the bench - judicial oversight does have it's limits), I just have no concrete information.
and haunt all the people who caused pain to my guy!I have only heard through other gay friends that this has happened on more that a few occasions (at least in Florida - Judges should not be allowed to dictate laws from the bench - judicial oversight does have it's limits), I just have no concrete information.
Are you referring to the recent custody case (where she wasn't married)? Or the much older case of her husband, who will was contested and ended up having the estate split (though she got a good chunk, only because they were actually married)?
Also, you haven't addressed the non-financial ramifications. Or do you not have a simple justification? If you need to call a friend for help, we can wait...
No in fact you can not just "leave your wealth" to whom ever you choose. Members of the descendent's family can and have in many cases contested the wills of same sex couples and wlaked away with that wealth against the wishes expressed in the will.
My last response to you is to request that you study how the OPINION you hold actually affects the rights of other other Americans. Back the opinion you hold with reality. Put your self in their place, if you can, and ask if your rights as an American were being served.
You obviously lack the initiative to research your opinions so here are some of the facts that surround the transition of assets on the death of a partner in a same sex relationship that are denied them by being disallowed to legally wed. I've also included some of the other problems that people in a same sex partnership face.
- Right to many of ex- or late spouse's benefits,, including:
- Social Security pension
- veteran's pensions, indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, and nursing home care, right to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing
- survivor benefits for federal employees
- survivor benefits for spouses of longshoremen, harbor workers, railroad workers
- additional benefits to spouses of coal miners who die of black lung disease
- $100,000 to spouse of any public safety officer killed in the line of duty
- continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits
- renewal and termination rights to spouse's copyrights on death of spouse
- continued water rights of spouse in some circumstances
- payment of wages and workers compensation benefits after worker death
- making, revoking, and objecting to post-mortem anatomical gifts
- Right to benefits while married:
- employment assistance and transitional services for spouses of members being separated from military service; continued commissary privileges
- per diem payment to spouse for federal civil service employees when relocating
- Indian Health Service care for spouses of Native Americans (in some circumstances)
- sponsor husband/wife for immigration benefits
- Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:
- veteran's disability
- Supplemental Security Income
- disability payments for federal employees
- medicaid
- property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans
- income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates
- Joint and family-related rights:
- joint filing of bankruptcy permitted
- joint parenting rights, such as access to children's school records
- family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison
- next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims
- custodial rights to children, shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce
- domestic violence intervention
- access to "family only" services, such as reduced rate memberships to clubs & organizations or residency in certain neighborhoods
- Preferential hiring for spouses of veterans in government jobs
- Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from "due-on-sale" clauses.
- Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens
- Spouse's flower sales count towards meeting the eligibility for Fresh Cut Flowers and Fresh Cut Greens Promotion and Information Act
- Threats against spouses of various federal employees is a federal crime
- Right to continue living on land purchased from spouse by National Park Service when easement granted to spouse
- Court notice of probate proceedings
- Domestic violence protection orders
- Existing homestead lease continuation of rights
- Regulation of condominium sales to owner-occupants exemption
- Funeral and bereavement leave
- Joint adoption and foster care
- Joint tax filing
- Insurance licenses, coverage, eligibility, and benefits organization of mutual benefits society
- Legal status with stepchildren
- Making spousal medical decisions
- Spousal non-resident tuition deferential waiver
- Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation
- Right of survivorship of custodial trust
- Right to change surname upon marriage
- Right to enter into prenuptial agreement
- Right to inheritance of property
- Spousal privilege in court cases (the marital confidences privilege and the spousal testimonial privilege)
- potential loss of couple's home from medical expenses of one partner caring for another gravely ill one
- costs of supporting two households, travel, or emigration out of the US for an American citizen unable to legally marry a non-US citizen. If a lesbian woman meets and falls in love with a woman from Chechnya they have no legal rights
- higher cost of purchasing private insurance for partner and children if company is not one of 18% that offer domestic partner benefits
- higher taxes: unlike a company's contribution to an employee's spouse's health insurance, domestic partner benefits are taxed as additional compensation
- legal costs associated with obtaining domestic partner documents to gain some of the power of attorney, health care decision-making, and inheritance rights granted through legal marriage
- higher health costs associated with lack of insurance and preventative care: 20% of same-sex couples have a member who is uninsured compared to 10% of married opposite-sex couples
- current tax law allows a spouse to inherit an unlimited amount from the deceased without incurring an estate tax but an unmarried partner would have to pay the estate tax on the inheritance from her/his partner
- same-sex couples are not eligible to file jointly or separately as a married couple and thus cannot take the advantages of lower taxes via the marriage bonus
I guess people think that those who defend homosesexuals must be gay.
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We must be. We are fag loving heathens, and we will burn in hell!
Fact is, you were bitching about gays not being able to pass property/wealth on. This simply isn't true, and now you copy/paste some list from a website, and expect me to respond to all that garbage after I already refuted the shit you originally said?
Let me be very clear and simple: None of the things you posted are rights provided for by the US Constitution. Bottom line, it's really that easy. If you want to change it, you can propose amendments to the Constitution to include all of those things as rights of all Americans. Good luck.
You know what, I think it would be ok if gays get those benefits, but why stop there? What if I happen to like to fuck sheep or pigs, and I want them to get my social security benefits, when I die? Who is the government to tell me who I can or can't marry, yada yada yada?
Speaking on a non Constitutional (read: meaningless) basis, which apparently everyone here is doing, my opinion is that some behaviors don't need to be subsidized by the government. I don't think it's right biologically (duh) or morally (the relativists will disagree, of course). So, I don't want the government to encourage homosexuals to wed on the same level it encourages heterosexuals to wed, because I most certainly believe they are not equal. I don't hate gay people, but I certainly don't think their behavior is something that needs to be encouraged by the government.
Let me be very clear and simple: None of the things you posted are rights provided for by the US Constitution. Bottom line, it's really that easy. If you want to change it, you can propose amendments to the Constitution to include all of those things as rights of all Americans. Good luck.
You know what, I think it would be ok if gays get those benefits, but why stop there? What if I happen to like to fuck sheep or pigs, and I want them to get my social security benefits, when I die? Who is the government to tell me who I can or can't marry, yada yada yada?
Speaking on a non Constitutional (read: meaningless) basis, which apparently everyone here is doing, my opinion is that some behaviors don't need to be subsidized by the government. I don't think it's right biologically (duh) or morally (the relativists will disagree, of course). So, I don't want the government to encourage homosexuals to wed on the same level it encourages heterosexuals to wed, because I most certainly believe they are not equal. I don't hate gay people, but I certainly don't think their behavior is something that needs to be encouraged by the government.
1. Yes. If you come in here to debate an issue then you are expected to hold up your side of your opinion; however, all that shit I posted is in fact the law. There is nothing there for you to refute. Your opinion does nothing to change the FACT that people in same sex marriages are denied their equal rights as provided for in our constitution.
2. Where in the US Constitution does it say that these rights are exclusive to the moral majority? NOWHERE!!! The laws that discriminate against anyone are all being struck down or abolished albeit slowly and with setbacks proped up by bigoted closet freaks. Don't like that? Then YOU try to amend the constitution. Bad luck trying.
3. If you want to fuck sheep then go rock your world with regular a farm animal orgy. Until the sheep or pigs you find attractive can legally consent to a wedding license you will have a hard time getting one to the chapel so you're stuck going the common law route.
4. Now we really get down to the meat of the issue with you. Your ideals of what is morally acceptable is all you care about. Your idea of America is all that matters to you. From that point on you become a bigoted fruitcake with no voice. Seriously ... no single person who matters is interested in what you have to say. With that perspective you become nothing more relevant to the growth of this nation than the character played by Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory. So go lock your refrigerator and line the walls with tinfoil because like it or not people that chose to live in same sex relationships are protected by the same laws as you are. Don't like that? Too bad ... get over your self because there is a correction rolling slowly your way and I for one will vote for it. Think 10 to 20 years from now. Like black suffrage and women's rights ... it will take time but equality will eventually overtake bigotry.
Still waiting for you to provide me with the constitutional right to marry.
"Moronic response 2" from you demonstrates your lack of legal knowledge. You really don't understand what a "RIGHT" is, do you? The things you listed are not Constitutional rights... duh! Why do you think people who agree with me were pushing for a Constitutional amendment to define marriage as between a man+woman? Because it simply isn't covered in the document... duh!
I never said a word about my opinion until just now, because it seemed that was all anybody cared about. So you can call me a bigot all you want, if it makes you feel better, more power to you. Because I don't think homosexual relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships I guess I'm some sort of militant bigot, damn.
Look who's spewed the hate here... I've simply stated that the whole bullshit argument that it's about "passing wealth on" is ridiculous and false, which is clear to anyone with even the slighest grasp of the law and that's what everyone was crying about (now you're crying about other BS in that list you found off of google). I just now expressed my personal opinion on the matter since I was already being called all those names by the PC crowd, I thought I'd at least share what I actually think, and I hardly think it's unreasonable to hold the opinion that the government shouldn't endorse homosexual behavior on the same level it does heterosexual marriage. Is it really that offensive?
I think it's just easier to call someone a bigot than it is to address the point they make. How about I just call you a fag, and discount your opinion that way...?
edit: I hope you realize all the shit you said in your own moronic reply #4, can apply right back to YOU and YOUR opinion.
edit 2: Comparing gays to Blacks/Women has got to be one of the most ridiculous and sad comparisons. Why don't you compare them to the Jews in Nazi Germany too? Are you really that warped?
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Check out the 14th Amendment ... Citizenship Rights.brogers said:
This guarantees that what ever rights and privileges you enjoy are to be equally enjoyed by all US citizens and that would obviously include marriage. You can call it a privilege if that floats your boat but if you can legally do it so can anyone else.
Why do you continue to act as tough marriage is somehow a right that requires constitutionally specific language. WTF is up with that? ALL actions we allow under American law are to be equally allowed to all American citizens ... period. You do not get to pick and choose who can and cannot do a thing respective of your own brain fart of an ideology brogers and PLEASE spare us your obvious response about bestiality and pedophilia. We are talking about acts between legally consenting human adults.
Really ... who the hell do you think you are to tell a woman who pays her taxes that she is not allowed to have the same tax benefits you enjoy because her spouse is also a woman? She has the constitutional right to each and every privilege you have.
The rest of your post was so full of nonsense that I feel less intelligent for having read it. Why do you post as though you are a moron? Have you really no ability to wrap your mind around a concept that is not aligned with your own belief system or lifestyle?
I am no more gay than you are, yet even though it would kill me if my son came home and declared he was a fag it would still be his RIGHT to do so. I would expect him to get the same rights and privileges as a straight person would.
Step away from this self absorbed quasi religious ideology of yours brogers and look at this from the humanistic perspective ...
The best part of waking up is brogers in your cup!1!!
14th Amendment doesn't apply, gay people can get married, they just can't marry someone from the same sex, likewise, I can't marry a sheep or pig, as previously mentioned. Marriage is, was, and for now, will be defined as being between a man and a woman in the United States. That is reality. Try to "wrap your head around it"
What's wrong with that? Damn your prude.
OK, now your freaking me out.
You sound so disappointed you can't marry a sheep.
If the right to marry whomever you choose is not protected by the Constitution, then why is an amendment needed to stop it from happening?
Your opinion here is flawed. To think that the government should not endorse a lifestyle of your choosing is not only close-minded, it's silly and scary at the same time. What if the old men who can't use computers, but have gotten themselves elected, decided not to "endorse" your online lifestyle because of all the pedophiles and decide to take the Internet away. Still reasonable?
And comparing this situation to another where a group is being singled out because of their genetic/lifestyle/skin color and having their rights arbitrarily taken away by the majority? That seems to make more sense than comparing it to interspecies lovin.
Nice dodge but no it doesn't work like that. Your sheep is not a consenting human type sheep ... it's just your love slave. I know you really want to keep on the blinders and plug your ears while you scream nahnahnahnah ... but it won't work. They're not going to just go away. Men are gonna marry men and women are gonna marry women.
In that 14th amendment it says ALL citizens ... not all straight citizens. You can't bend the 14th to fit your vision of how it should read any more than the KKK could ... try as you may.
Have you considered that being gay is just as much a result of birth as being Asian or being Caucasian? There are a million studies on gayness. The gay gene has been proven and disproved and re-proven ... but some physical traits do tend to prevail among the gay crowd.
EXAMPLE A: Hair Whorl (Men)
Gay men are more likely than straight men to have a counterclockwise whorl.
Rest of the article on gay traits.
EXAMPLE A: Hair Whorl (Men)
Gay men are more likely than straight men to have a counterclockwise whorl.
Rest of the article on gay traits.
My father had the countercockwise whorl, that might explain why dad and "uncle Bruce" hid in the basement for so long while mommy cried in her room.
Erph. Ehhhyuuuh uh how does your head wohrl? Did you look over the rest of it? There are several interesting lil traits on the other pages of that link. Having one would prolly not freak me out but several?My father had the countercockwise whorl, that might explain why dad and "uncle Bruce" hid in the basement for so long while mommy cried in her room.
Both of our hairs are straight back.
Not long ago it was defined as between a white man and a white woman, or black man/ black woman; then one day a inter-racial couple decided they wanted the same rights and they got'em
it's only a matter of time and you'll be able to marry that pig or sheep you've had your eye on for sometime....
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