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For all of the atheist and agnostics...

DFINEST

Believe, Achieve, Succeed
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An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, the Almighty. He asks one of his new students to stand...

Prof: You are a Christian, aren't you, son?

Student: Yes, sir.

Prof: So you believe in God?

Student: Absolutely, sir.

Prof: Is God good?

Student: Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?

Student: Yes.

Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then, hmm?

(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?

Student: Yes.

Prof: Is Satan good?

Student: No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?

Student: From...God...

Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student: Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?

Student: Yes.

Prof: So who created evil?

(Student does not answer.)

Prof: Is there sickness, immorality, hatred, ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?

Student: Yes, sir.

Prof: So, who created them?

(Student has no answer.)

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...have you ever seen God?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?

Student: No, sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?

Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.

Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student: Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.

Prof: Yes, faith...and that is the problem science has.

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Prof: Yes.

Student: And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: Yes.

Student: No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?

Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)

Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)

Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.

Student: That is it sir... The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive. :rocker:
 
I still don´t understand the logic of the student. We can prove darkness, cold and someone brain.
 
nice story,,but the darkness thing kinda threw me
 
yes, and following successive ancestory, and watching changes in structure, we can also chart evolution. Then again, Ive even heard people claim that satan put dinosaur fossils on earth to rob us of our faith. Im sure the same could apply to a series of human like-being's bone structures being found, and when dated, show a common flow of change. Forget it, someone will want to debate this,"Show me solid proof that theyve found such skeletons, theve been proven real, and that carbon dating works" Uh, no, gfy, I have a life. The only reason the teacher lost said arguement(Well, besides that the writer was obviously christian :rolleyes: ) is that he couldnt think of a proper comeback. Aside from the student making no points, he made a complete fool of himself trying to sound smart. "Cold" is relative, if you have heat, any lower amount is,"Colder" COld is the absense of heat, and unless the full potential for heat is otained, there will always be cold. The kid should have gone ahead and said,"Do we need air to breathe?"
Prof: "Yes"
Student: "Have you ever SEEN air?"
Prof: "No" (could be done with the right equip on an atomic scale, but since Im writing this as a christian, Ill sat he hasnt done so)
Student: "Have you ever tasted air?"
Prof: "No" (As with anything you're around 24/7, you cant smell or taste it.. If he lived in methane a few year he could.. again, we're christians)
Student: "Then according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says air does not exist. Therefore you cant need air to breath as it doesnt exist. Just as you dont need god to live, because he doesnt exist."
The professors begins to cry and admits the student is right, the entire class cheers on the Christian, and the next day they are all baptised, and lived happily ever after because they believe they were going to heaven when they die.
 
Still doesn't explain why their is evil and sin. Why would God CREATE it? iS he sadistic? Does he enjoy the thrill of gambling with our souls.

Hmmm, will this one believe in me or not?
If he is omnipotent then why not just strike down the unfaithful at birth?
Why did Hitler believe in God?


Is darkness the absence of light? Or light the presence of combustion in an ever present darkness. Without Stars wouldn't their only be darkness?
 
Chain Link said:
The professors begins to cry and admits the student is right, the entire class cheers on the Christian, and the next day they are all baptised, and lived happily ever after because they believe they were going to heaven when they die.

Lol :)
 
maniclion said:
Still doesn't explain why their is evil and sin. Why would God CREATE it? iS he sadistic? Does he enjoy the thrill of gambling with our souls.
Hey Manic have you read the book of Job?
 
that all sounds nice, but put that student in a argument with me and we will see about who comes out on top. None of that shit would work.. their whole premise is that, well we can't prove it, but YOU can't DISprove it, so there. You believers are the ones claiming there is an entity as such, and your argument is that we can't prove there isn't one? you have to prove there is, and you can't do that. don't even get me started on faith. God is just an invisible friend for adults, its comforting to have an explanation to explain the unexplained. anyways, my 2 cents
 
Here we go again.... :rolleyes:
God didn't create Satan, Satan became evil when he was removed from God and everything thing that God is (good).
Right from the start God has wanted us to have choice, do you think God wanted to create little drones that would follow him around for no reason at all. Don't tell me you can follow evolution, thats just bullshit..... there are so many flaws in it it's beyond a joke. And there are descriptions of dinosurs in the bible..... so no satan did not put them there.

As far as feeling God, yes i have. I have personal experience with Him doing amazing things in my life, things that are beyond descpription so argue all you want but it's still a matter of faith :D
 
Those who believe, believe. Those who don't, don't.

We'll all know for sure in the end, that's for sure. Either it's lights out, or it's not. If it's not lights out, you sure as hell are going to wish it was. :)
 
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This means, of course, that if you aren't a member of the 700 Club, you've chosen Door #3 and believed in the "wrong" God.
 
Rissole said:
Here we go again.... :rolleyes:
God didn't create Satan, Satan became evil when he was removed from God and everything thing that God is (good).
Right from the start God has wanted us to have choice, do you think God wanted to create little drones that would follow him around for no reason at all. Don't tell me you can follow evolution, thats just bullshit..... there are so many flaws in it it's beyond a joke. And there are descriptions of dinosurs in the bible..... so no satan did not put them there.

As far as feeling God, yes i have. I have personal experience with Him doing amazing things in my life, things that are beyond descpription so argue all you want but it's still a matter of faith :D
Right on Riss! Satan was an angel to begin with. When he decided that he was God or equal to God, that is when he and the angles that followed him was cast out and became evil.(Demons) That is where evil comes from...........deciding to follow lucifer instead of God.
 
Vieope said:
I still don´t understand the logic of the student. We can prove darkness, cold and someone brain.
yes, Heat can be explained as the absence of cold as well, which would bring them back to duality.
 
Too lazy to give a mature answer, so i'll say this:

From the first sentence you can tell its religious propaganda, since no professor would ever even begin such a discussion if he valued his job. As it continues, its filled with the most simplistic and idiotic arguments imaginably, countered with equally simplistic and idiotic arguments. I hope whoever wrote that doesnt have a job more important than writing jesus comic books for the 10 and under crowd, since having managed to creep any higher on the literary totem pole is a truly agonizing sign for humanity.
 
Monolith said:
Too lazy to give a mature answer, so i'll say this:

From the first sentence you can tell its religious propaganda, since no professor would ever even begin such a discussion if he valued his job. As it continues, its filled with the most simplistic and idiotic arguments imaginably, countered with equally simplistic and idiotic arguments. I hope whoever wrote that doesnt have a job more important than writing jesus comic books for the 10 and under crowd, since having managed to creep any higher on the literary totem pole is a truly agonizing sign for humanity.
You have to be kidding....................that is all the university's teach. No God this and God doesn't exist that. :rolleyes:
 
Monolith said:
From the first sentence you can tell its religious propaganda, since no professor would ever even begin such a discussion if he valued his job.

not true, I took many philosophy classes in college and this type of discussion would happen, especially in upper division philosohy (300-400 level courses).
 
dg806 said:
You have to be kidding....................that is all the university's teach. No God this and God doesn't exist that. :rolleyes:

With nearly three degrees under my belt, I've yet to have any professor teach that in any way, shape, or form. I think the real complaint here is that the universities don't endorse your minister's interpretations, therefore they must be anti-christian. Isn't that what you really expect in a free society. . .that every institution publicly and continually endorse your personal religious beliefs?
 
Robert DiMaggio said:
I have no problem with those that believe there is a god, the problem I have is with religeon; if we could eradicate religeon we would hve a good chance at gaining world peace. ;)

That is exactly the problem. The issue isn't with God - it is with the concept that certain denominations believe that they are to recruit (by force of law or social sanctions if necessary) all who find God according to their own conscience and demand they live according to the self-appointed "christian" beliefs. Two hours watching CBN would confirm that - any denomination that does not completely agree with Pat is immediately branded "non-christian." Sounds like we need a different kind of constitutional amendment defining christianity and excluding those who openly spout deliberate lies. The first ones on the list should be those who want the 700 Club declared our national religion.
 
maniclion said:
Still doesn't explain why their is evil and sin. Why would God CREATE it? iS he sadistic? Does he enjoy the thrill of gambling with our souls.

Same old argument, same answer. God created us & gave us free will. We chose evil. If God disallowed us to choose evil, he would also strip our free will.

maniclion said:
Hmmm, will this one believe in me or not?
If he is omnipotent then why not just strike down the unfaithful at birth?
Why did Hitler believe in God?

It's always been an invitation. He never demanded anything. Again, deprivation of the choice removes your free will.

Hitler was insane, and his skewed view can't be blamed on God. :rolleyes:

Robert DiMaggio said:
I have no problem with those that believe there is a god, the problem I have is with religeon; if we could eradicate religeon we would hve a good chance at gaining world peace. ;)

I don't really buy that. Radicals use religion as a platform for their cause. They brainwash people using religion to gain members/allegiance. They contort religious views to for a purpose. Even as a Christian, I can see the Muslims don't condone the actions of many of the radical groups, whether or not they come out & say that. Religion can't be blamed in general. It's man-made, so it's prone to mistakes. The intentions for the most part are good. I see the Church/Religion is a guide, that's all.

Anyone who dumped their faith because of how the catholic Church reacted, or didn;t react to the priests getting their knobs cleaned didn't have real faith in the first place.

If we eradicate the insane radicals, we'd have a better chance at world peace. :p
 
kbm8795 said:
That is exactly the problem. The issue isn't with God - it is with the concept that certain denominations believe that they are to recruit (by force of law or social sanctions if necessary) all who find God according to their own conscience and demand they live according to the self-appointed "christian" beliefs. Two hours watching CBN would confirm that - any denomination that does not completely agree with Pat is immediately branded "non-christian." Sounds like we need a different kind of constitutional amendment defining christianity and excluding those who openly spout deliberate lies. The first ones on the list should be those who want the 700 Club declared our national religion.

There's nothing wrong with recruitment. If you buy the Christian message, then you believe there's only one way directly to the pearly gates.. :angel2: therefore you would want to get as many as possible to jump on the bandwagon. I agree, many recruit in the wrong way, but their intentions are decent enough.
 
^^^ is true.
 
Robert DiMaggio said:
it is a fact, religeon has caused more wars and killed more people than anything else, period.

I see what you're getting at, & I know you're right. I'm just saying the blame shouldn't be on religion. Passionate people cause that.. not the institution of religion itself.

Religion, by definition, is strictly the practice & direction of faith. How people choose to follow that is up to them. The blame is theirs, not the religion they belong to.

If I was to slice a guy's neck for saying my belief was junk, that would be my misguided fault. My religion at it's core.. not what any pope says.. would never condone the action.
 
damn it.. how do I always get myself caught up in political & religious debates? :grumble:
 
There is no God, I believe in Marilyn Manson. :D
:hot: :banana: :buttrock: :rocker:
 
Robert DiMaggio said:
it is a fact, religeon has caused more wars and killed more people than anything else, period.

Yes, that's true. However, imagine no religion. Sounds good, right? No more conflicts, etc.

FALSE.

If no one worshiped any god, guess what? Wars would be fought over differences in culture, color, speech, etc. Mankind has been fighting with each other since the dawn of time.

Most people are religious, although of different faiths. Remove that, and believe me you, they will find something else to fight about it. See, that's where the "remove religion" statements always fail. They look at the source, per se, and blame it. No matter what you do, people will kill each other. It's always happened, it always will.
 
I say break the egg from the big end. Anyone who does other wise is completly wrong and I hope one day chokes on an egg shell. ;)
 
Student: And is there such a thing as cold?

Prof: You are argueing semantically and relatively speaking. What is cold to a human is warm to a penguin.


Student: No sir. There isn't.

(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)


Prof: Er, you are arguing semantics again. Heat refers to nonmechanical energy transfer with reference to a temperature difference between a system and is surroundings. I'm not talking about the state of a body perceiving the relative temeprature difference like the penguin and human analogy I gave above.



Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Prof: Why do you keep harping on semantics? Darkness for a human is lack of visible light, darkness for a bat is its malfunctioning sonar apparatus.


Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?

Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how? (I am humoring him.)

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: Son, Darwin never said homo sapiens came from monkeys. Better do your homework a little more on that one. As for electricity and magnetism, both are understood quite well in of themselves, we just haven't come up with a Grand Unification theory uniting all the relavent forces

Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shakes his head with a smile,realizing the futility of this argument with this student)


Prof: No, and have you observed the writing of the bible and the selective cannonization of the biblical text when the Catholic church decided the book of Thomas was not worthy of inclusion into the bible or the Book of Macabees and scores of other "holy texts"


Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class is in uproar.)


Prof: Actually you can see the process of microevolution occurring right in front of our eyes in such examples as antibiotic resisitance


Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?

(The class breaks out into laughter.)


Professor: I can easily obtain an MRI of my brain.

Student: Has anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it?


Prof: No, but I would not want unnecessary elective craniotomy done to my skull.


Student: So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.) "Why exactly are you continueing this?" He thinks to himself.

Student: That is it sir... The link between man & God is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.


Prof: I should think God favors no denominations, only religions do, and I wouldn't bank on who has the upper hand on sorting out that relationship with God, if that is to be the case
 
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