Good workout routine for gaining mass?

[xfile384]

First, i want to say thank you merkaba and built for your help. I've asked these two for advice and they have given me a lot of input. I'm just making this thread to even get more information, because i don't want to keep bugging them! lol

Monday - Chest and Back

Exercise Sets Reps

Dumbbell flat press 4 10
Bench press 4 10
Dumbbell Flys 3 10

Back

Exercise Sets Reps

Bent Over Barbell Row 4 10
One Arm Dumbbell Row 4 10
Shrugs/pull ups 3 10
Push ups until fail...

I just got the pull up bar, so i wanted to incorporate that into the workout. How does it fit? I can do both shrugs and pull ups?

Tuesday: Rest Day

Wednesday - Legs (including calves)

Exercise Sets Reps

Squats 4 12,10,10,8
Dumbbell Lunges 3 6 on each leg
Deadlifts 3 10
Standing Calf Raise 5 12,12,10,8,8

Thursday: Rest Day

Friday - Shoulders and Arms

Exercise Sets Reps

Military Press 4 8-10
Dumbbell Lateral Raise 4 12
Bent Over Reverse Fly 4 12

Arms

Exercise Sets Reps

Barbell Bicep Curl 5 10
French Press 5 10
Forearm curl 3 10

How is this routine?

I just started it. Currently, I'm 5'7 145lbs and I'm trying to get bigger and gain weight. I've been eating 500 calories over maintenance and I'm trying to bulk clean. I'm also taking creatine for a little extra boost. My goal weight is 165.

My main goal is to get my arms bigger. I understand i have to do the whole body, but is there arm routines i can add to this? Or, is this sufficient? I don't want to add too much, because i understand the muscles need time to recover. I'm sore today from the squats...lol, wow...

This is a home workout, which is why everything used is a dumbbell and barbell.

 

[thanhie]

as i been told to gain mass u gotta lift heavy and low reps, so u wanna keep them around 5 - 8 reps max. im the same hieght and was at the same wieght as u and my gaol was also to hit 165 pounds. eat, eat and eat, try to eat about 3000 calories a day that help for me, im now at 160. good luck tho

 

[Gazhole]

as i been told to gain mass u gotta lift heavy and low reps, so u wanna keep them around 5 - 8 reps max.

Untrue.

Variation is the key to mass gaining from a training perspective. I've gained size doing 20 rep sets before, as well as 3 rep sets.

But like you said in the rest of your post, diet management and being in a caloric surplus is the most important thing when talking about gaining/losing weight.

Doesnt matter what you do in the gym, if you dont have the excess energy to synthesize new tissue it aint gonna happen.

 

[Gazhole]

Im guessing the 4 10 is sets x reps?

Comments about exercise selection in bold...

Monday - Chest and Back

Exercise Sets Reps

Dumbbell flat press 4 10
Bench press 4 10 - Replace one of these bench variations with dips.
Dumbbell Flys 3 10

Back

Exercise Sets Reps

Bent Over Barbell Row 4 10
One Arm Dumbbell Row 4 10
Pull ups 3 10 - Dont see the need for shrugs tbh, never liked that movement.
Push ups until fail... - Cut this. Not needed, and failure training isnt great.

Tuesday: Rest Day

Wednesday - Legs (including calves)

Exercise Sets Reps

Squats 4 12,10,10,8
Dumbbell Lunges 3 6 on each leg
Deadlifts 3 10
Single Legged Hyperextensions - whatever rep range. Needed another pulling movement in here.
Standing Calf Raise 5 12,12,10,8,8

Thursday: Rest Day

Friday - Shoulders and Arms

Exercise Sets Reps

Military Press 4 8-10
Dumbbell Lateral Raise 4 12
Bent Over Reverse Fly 4 12

Arms

Exercise Sets Reps

Barbell Bicep Curl 5 10
French Press 5 10
Forearm curl 3 10

How is this routine?

Personally i wouldnt have a dedicated day for shoulders/arms as they get worked a lot on the upper body day you have there, but its not a big thing. If your shoulders start to seem like they're being overworked, cut some of the shoulder work out.

I cut pushups because you already have plenty of horizontal plane pushing going on, and failure training will probably exascerbate any shoulder overtraining problems.

Dips would be a good replacement for the un-needed benching variation (you dont need two!), and i dont really like shrugs as that can lead to problems when the upper portion of the traps are training more than the lower portion. I know from experience that can cause weird issues with the upper back/neck area.

They're not too critical anyways tbh. Just another isolation movement.

Are you implementing any sort of periodization in with this program?

 

[xfile384]

Im guessing the 4 10 is sets x reps?

Comments about exercise selection in bold...



Personally i wouldnt have a dedicated day for shoulders/arms as they get worked a lot on the upper body day you have there, but its not a big thing. If your shoulders start to seem like they're being overworked, cut some of the shoulder work out.

I cut pushups because you already have plenty of horizontal plane pushing going on, and failure training will probably exascerbate any shoulder overtraining problems.

Dips would be a good replacement for the un-needed benching variation (you dont need two!), and i dont really like shrugs as that can lead to problems when the upper portion of the traps are training more than the lower portion. I know from experience that can cause weird issues with the upper back/neck area.

They're not too critical anyways tbh. Just another isolation movement.

Are you implementing any sort of periodization in with this program?

Thanks a lot for the post. This is exactly what kind of help i wanted.

Yes, you were right, sets, then reps. What do you mean by periodization? Like, a goal?

Also, my main focus is to get my arms bigger, but i don't want to do too much, because from what i understand this can be bad...Do you think i can add some arm routines throughout the week? I noticed you added dips for Mondays which is good. But maybe some biceps also? Or, biceps on Wed? Let me know what you think...I just don't want to overdue it and not get gains...I'm eating clean and a lot of food. About 2900 calories a day, but my maintenance is 2200ish..I've been gaining weight.

I just got through finishing my Friday routine and i feel like the bent over reverse fly is pointless. Reason being, because after i was done with the dumbbell lateral raise, i didn't have much energy left for the reverse fly. Any tips on what i can replace with with? Maybe hammer curls? Also, i added dumbbell tricep extensions. After the french press and dumbbell tricep extension, i could tell i worked out my tricep very well.

 

[Gazhole]

To be honest, it might be expedient to cut this down to a two day split:

DAY 1:

Pull ups
Dumbbell flat press
Bent Over Barbell Row
Dips
Dumbbell Flys
Curls

DAY 2:

Squats
Deadlifts
Dumbbell Lunges
Good Mornings
Single Legged Hyperextensions
Standing Calf Raise

***

Which leads me into periodization, which is the best thing to ever happen in training. All periodization is, is a planned variation over the course of the program.

Basically, you factor in changes in certain variables (sets, reps, rest intervals, intensity, volume, etc etc) in order to keep a fresh stimulus on your muscles to avoid overtraining.

Theres a lot of info in the stickies on designing training programs by Cowpimp, but there are a few ways you can do this. I highly reccomend reading those threads here.

For example, a simple way you could periodize this program would be to alternate both your workouts throughout a 3 day training week:

Week 1

Mon - DAY 1 workout
Tue - Rest
Wed - DAY 2 workout
Thu - Rest
Fri - Day 1 workout


Week 2

Mon - DAY 2 workout
Tue - Rest
Wed - DAY 1 workout
Thu - Rest
Fri - Day 2 workout


And assign a different rep range to each day of the week:

Mon - 2x20
Wed - 3x12
Fri - 4x8

This is some sort of alternating periodization - you've planned a pretty varied training pattern where every workout in a 2 week cycle is different.

See?

 

[xfile384]

To be honest, it might be expedient to cut this down to a two day split:

DAY 1:

Pull ups
Dumbbell flat press
Bent Over Barbell Row
Dips
Dumbbell Flys
Curls

DAY 2:

Squats
Deadlifts
Dumbbell Lunges
Good Mornings
Single Legged Hyperextensions
Standing Calf Raise

***

Which leads me into periodization, which is the best thing to ever happen in training. All periodization is, is a planned variation over the course of the program.

Basically, you factor in changes in certain variables (sets, reps, rest intervals, intensity, volume, etc etc) in order to keep a fresh stimulus on your muscles to avoid overtraining.

Theres a lot of info in the stickies on designing training programs by Cowpimp, but there are a few ways you can do this. I highly reccomend reading those threads here.

For example, a simple way you could periodize this program would be to alternate both your workouts throughout a 3 day training week:

Week 1

Mon - DAY 1 workout
Tue - Rest
Wed - DAY 2 workout
Thu - Rest
Fri - Day 1 workout


Week 2

Mon - DAY 2 workout
Tue - Rest
Wed - DAY 1 workout
Thu - Rest
Fri - Day 2 workout


And assign a different rep range to each day of the week:

Mon - 2x20
Wed - 3x12
Fri - 4x8

This is some sort of alternating periodization - you've planned a pretty varied training pattern where every workout in a 2 week cycle is different.

See?

I like this idea. It really makes a 3 day workout routine seem very effective. The rest of the time i can focus on eating properly to grow and rest. I may incorporate some ab exercises on Tuesday or Thursday, but i know that won't affect anything.

What about skull crushers? I felt like those were very effective and i'm looking to get good results from arm gains. (hopefully) Could i add skull crushers to Day 1? Or, would this be too much? Also, i notice you didn't have bench press on either day. Do you think dumbbell flat press is more effective? I want to have my routine set and alternate like you mentioned.

Thanks for the advice. I'm just trying to get a routine down, so i can stick with it. I know that skull crushers and tricep extensions worked for me. Curls were good, but i felt like dumbbell curls and hammer curls were better for me. I felt myself leaning a bit when doing the barbell curl.

 

[Gazhole]

Sure, nothing is really set in stone. Do the exercise variations you feel more confident with.

You could do flat bench instead of dumbell, skullcrushers instead of flys, and hammers instead of curls for example.

I will say that the growth of your arms has little to do with what actual direct arm work you do, though. Compound/multijoint movements like bench and rows will do far more for overall upper body growth than curls or tricep extensions will.

Bigger movements = more muscle recruitment = more work = more growth.

It doesnt hurt to but smaller single joint/isolation movements in, but i wouldnt devote a lot of time and effort to them.

Should also point out that id keep those isolation movements in the higher rep ranges whatever the main rep range is for each day. Because they only utilise a single joint, going heavier than say 10 reps or so will put an excessive amount of force on that single joint and can lead to small injuries if you're not careful.

 

[xfile384]

Alright, cool. I'll replace the flat press with a bench press on Day 1. Also, i'm not really too familiar with good mornings and one legged hyper extensions...Anything else i could do? Or, should i try to learn these movements? I'm comfortable with all the other exercises and can perform them well and smooth.

Another quick question. For squats and deadlifts i lift until the last reps are hard to achieve. For instance, sometimes at the end of my sets, i'll only be able to do 7 or so...Is this ok, or should i use less weight? This really goes for all my workouts. If i can do 15 reps, generally i will add more weight, so i'm finding it difficult on the last set. For curls, should i use a little bit of a lighter weight since it's an isolation movement? For instance, maybe do 15 reps and on the last set be at 10 or so, rather than struggling on 7?

Just so you know, my goal is to gain about 15lbs, maybe more. I'm 5'7 and weigh 146 now and i want to be 160-165. I started at 140 and i've gained 6, so at least I'm making progress...

 

[Gazhole]

Alright, cool. I'll replace the flat press with a bench press on Day 1. Also, i'm not really too familiar with good mornings and one legged hyper extensions...Anything else i could do? Or, should i try to learn these movements? I'm comfortable with all the other exercises and can perform them well and smooth.

They're good movements, so i would give them a try if you can.



Barbell Good-morning

On the good mornings the guy in the picture takes the bend at the waist too far IMO, and doesnt bend his knees.

I would keep a slight bend in your knees (as if you were performing a romanian deadlift or something) and take the waist bend as far as is confortable. Remember to keep your back straight and dont round.


Weighted Hyperextension

Basically these but with one leg. Remember to keep your back neutral and dont round, do as many reps as is comfortable at first. Start with just your bodyweight at first, then later on you can try adding some weight.

Just concentrate on getting the form right, keep them controlled. For these and Good Mornings, since you've never done them before dont worry about hitting the desired number of reps for that workout day just yet, just concentrate on nailing that form.

Even if you just do 6 reps and arent really all that tired from them, so long as you're learning the movement, you can build up reps/weight later on. Keep them light and get the technique down.

Another quick question. For squats and deadlifts i lift until the last reps are hard to achieve. For instance, sometimes at the end of my sets, i'll only be able to do 7 or so...Is this ok, or should i use less weight? This really goes for all my workouts. If i can do 15 reps, generally i will add more weight, so i'm finding it difficult on the last set. For curls, should i use a little bit of a lighter weight since it's an isolation movement? For instance, maybe do 15 reps and on the last set be at 10 or so, rather than struggling on 7?

The last few reps in the last set of any exercise should be challenging, but not a struggle. You should be able to finish that last set before concentric failure of the muscle, and your form shouldnt suffer at all.

If you find you are sacrificing technique and control just to get the weight up, you're lifitng too heavy and should lower it. Try not to use any "body english" or momentum to get the weight up, and keep your form tight all the way through.

Theres a big difference between a challenge and a struggle.

As for isolations, just keep them above 10 reps, and like i said above, you should be able to finish these sets comfortably. It shouldnt be EASY, just not so difficult as you have trouble finishing. If you consistently cant finish your sets it might be time to kick the ego and drop the weight, lol.

Guaging what weight you should use just comes with training experience and knowing your body and knowing lifting.

Just so you know, my goal is to gain about 15lbs, maybe more. I'm 5'7 and weigh 146 now and i want to be 160-165. I started at 140 and i've gained 6, so at least I'm making progress...

Thats awesome, well done

Im sure if you keep training hard and implement this sort of program (mostly compounds and periodized) you'll keep seeing those gains.

So long as your diet is good i dont see any reason why you cant achieve that goal.

 

[xfile384]

Sounds good.

Also, for the rep ranges you gave me. Mon - 2x20, Wed - 3x12, and Fri - 4x8. This is for all the exercises, correct? For instance, the dips, dumbbell flys, bench press, etc...All of them 2 sets 20 reps on Mondays, then 4 sets 8 reps on Fridays? Then the next week 3 sets 12 reps on Wednesday. This is correct, right? I just feel like 2 sets wouldn't be enough to fulfill my workout, or am i wrong? I thought heavier weights with low reps was better for getting bigger?

This could be speculation, which is why I'm asking. I'm just trying to learn! Thanks again!

Also, I'm eating just under 3000 calories a day and gaining weight. For my weight and height, i figure this number is good. I don't want to gain a ton of fat on my bulk. From what i understand, if you eat too much, you'll gain more fat. So, does 2900 calories seem about right for a typical male 5'7 147lbs on a bulk?

 

[Gazhole]

Yeah, those rep ranges are for the whole session (though not necessarily for isolation exercises/those exercises you havent done before).

The point of varying them like that is to keep a unique stimulus on your muscles, and since you're repeating a session in the same week, you cant expect to work as intensely both times you do that session.

Besides, there arent really any cut and dry ranges for building mass.

The reccomended rep ranges for endurance/size/strength are a guide, but the most important thing is proper diet management and training VARIATION.

Its stopping your body from completely adapting to your training program that will keep the gains coming, so long as you have the excess dietary energy to fuel them.

I've gained mass doing 8 sets of 3 reps, 2 sets of 4, 3 sets of 12, 2 sets of 25, and also sessions where i did 200 reps each on two exercises. The rep range doesnt really matter.

 

[xfile384]

Yeah, those rep ranges are for the whole session (though not necessarily for isolation exercises/those exercises you havent done before).

The point of varying them like that is to keep a unique stimulus on your muscles, and since you're repeating a session in the same week, you cant expect to work as intensely both times you do that session.

Besides, there arent really any cut and dry ranges for building mass.

The reccomended rep ranges for endurance/size/strength are a guide, but the most important thing is proper diet management and training VARIATION.

Its stopping your body from completely adapting to your training program that will keep the gains coming, so long as you have the excess dietary energy to fuel them.

I've gained mass doing 8 sets of 3 reps, 2 sets of 4, 3 sets of 12, 2 sets of 25, and also sessions where i did 200 reps each on two exercises. The rep range doesnt really matter.

Gotcha, so basically keep following this workout and rep ranges and continue to eat my usual 2900 calories. If i stop gaining weight, eat more. I understand that the heavier i get, the more food my body is going to want. So my maintenance is increasing. Which is why i realize i'll need to eat more if i stop gaining.

I try to eat as healthy as i can. Although, tonight i had chicken teriyaki, vegetables and rice from this Japanese place in the mall. I have no idea how many calories it was. Probably around 600 or so...Eh, i guess that isn't too bad. High protein i suppose...

 

[P-funk]

you can also play with rep tempo and rest intervals besides rep ranges. lots of variables can be changed around.

 

[xfile384]

you can also play with rep tempo and rest intervals besides rep ranges. lots of variables can be changed around.

What do you mean? I generally rest 30-45 secs before i start my next rep. I generally don't wait longer than a minute to start my next set either....

 

[P-funk]

30-45sec betwen reps? Do you mean 30-45sec between sets?


What I mean by rep tempo is that each repetition can be broken down into 4 phases:

a lower or eccentric phase
an isometric phase preceding the concentric phase
an overcoming or concentric phase
an isometric preceding the eccentric phase (ie, before the next rep)

These are written in a group of 4 numbers each corresponding to their different phase. For example:

3311

If we applied that to the bench press, it would mean:

3 counts lower
3 counts isometric hold on the chest
1 count press
1 count pause before starting the next repetition

You can play with tempo, depending on what your goals are, as a way to increase muscular tension.

patrick

 

[xfile384]

30-45sec betwen reps? Do you mean 30-45sec between sets?


What I mean by rep tempo is that each repetition can be broken down into 4 phases:

a lower or eccentric phase
an isometric phase preceding the concentric phase
an overcoming or concentric phase
an isometric preceding the eccentric phase (ie, before the next rep)

These are written in a group of 4 numbers each corresponding to their different phase. For example:

3311

If we applied that to the bench press, it would mean:

3 counts lower
3 counts isometric hold on the chest
1 count press
1 count pause before starting the next repetition

You can play with tempo, depending on what your goals are, as a way to increase muscular tension.

patrick

Yeah, i meant sets...My mistake

That seems a little complicated. I don't think i read and understood what you wrote properly. I'll have to look that over again. I don't even know what lower eccentric phase, or isometric phase is.

It seems like their is so much to know in order to get bigger.

Here is a plus though. I just put on a watch i haven't worn in a couple of months and it's tight around my wrist now. It used to be very loose...So, i must of got a little bigger in the wrist.

 

[Gazhole]

All Patrick is saying is that there are loads of other ways you can periodize a program.

If variation is the key to reaching your goals, varying the parameter you are actually changing is gonna be invaluable.

If you dont want to change the rep ranges, you can change the rest intervals to make the same set x rep scheme harder due to having less rest.

With the tempo thing, you can use the same rep range again, but make the reps last longer, keeping the muscle under more tension, which makes it also makes it harder.

They are just different ways to keep that stimulus changing, and thats what makes training so interesting. Its always fun designing a new program!

 

[xfile384]

All Patrick is saying is that there are loads of other ways you can periodize a program.

If variation is the key to reaching your goals, varying the parameter you are actually changing is gonna be invaluable.

If you dont want to change the rep ranges, you can change the rest intervals to make the same set x rep scheme harder due to having less rest.

With the tempo thing, you can use the same rep range again, but make the reps last longer, keeping the muscle under more tension, which makes it also makes it harder.

They are just different ways to keep that stimulus changing, and thats what makes training so interesting. Its always fun designing a new program!

Ah, i gotcha. Personally, i just like to wait about 30 secs before my next set. I feel like i get a good workout with this amount of time.

Also, i thought when you worked out it was better to lift the weight up quick until contraction, then gradually down. Isn't it supposed to be an explosive movement, rather than fatiguing your muscles going slow?

Thanks for the advice again, I'm really learning a lot from this site. I'm happy i decided to join this forum rather than getting advice from friends, etc...

 

[Merkaba]

Ah, i gotcha. Personally, i just like to wait about 30 secs before my next set. I feel like i get a good workout with this amount of time.

Also, i thought when you worked out it was better to lift the weight up quick until contraction, then gradually down. Isn't it supposed to be an explosive movement, rather than fatiguing your muscles going slow?

Thanks for the advice again, I'm really learning a lot from this site. I'm happy i decided to join this forum rather than getting advice from friends, etc...

Don't over think this stuff x. Eat properly and workout heavy if you want to get bigger. Hell i take 2 minutes or so between sets. i've read various takes. One is that you still want your body to recover enough so that you can gain a bit more energy to work the muscles on the next set. Otherwise....what if you take 10 seconds between sets? At some point there is a diminishing returns factor to think about. Personally I think 30 seconds is too short. But thats my opinion.

As stated by others, play with it. I really think that it won't make much difference and youre getting a little too anxious. Be patient and it will come.