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help me build my lower chest!!..

try supersets bro go lighter and squeeze out 30 plus reps a set!!
 
Every time this question is asked i pray this upper/lower chest shit isn't gonna kick off again. Of course it always does.

The ONLY way this train of thought (and i use the term loosely) came about was the same sort of bro-science thinking that states wide grip pullups build back width (simply because wide is in the name).
 
you can target heads of a muscle group independently. post way above is wrong. decline presses get a bad rap these days but it worked for me. i have good genetics but i also have extremely developed pecs because of how i lift. you need to think it out and work in controlled movements. be creative, what works for one man may not work on the next

Yep, I'm calling you out too. Prove it. And, with all due respect, to be honest, I'm super super tired of hearing this universal cop out of " what works for you may not work for someone else" Yea as far as what feels comfortable. But look, the body works on certain principles. You can't say that if you eat 20 grams of protein a day while doing strenuous work that you'll recover and build as much muscle as the same taking in 200 grams of protein. The same goes for what you claim. Some things are NOT subjective. Like Gazhole said about the wide grip pull up shit. Just some common rhetoric that perpetuates because so many people say it and believe it.
 
this is an age old argument of course can you target parts of a muscle. The argument goes that you can either contract a muscle or you dont, you cant contract part of a muscle OR you can target parts of a muscle....

Lets look at this: you CAN ONLY contract a "muscle fiber" the fiber itself either is contracted fully or it is NOT contractred. THAT is where the first argument above fails because it is NOT the muscle itself you contract but the muscle fibers. AND all muscle fibers for every muscle do not start and end at the same EXACT place.

The bicep has two muscles, the triceps have 3, we have the brachalis. For the thigh, we have the Quad(as in4) cepts....

The chest has slabs and slabs of muscle.....

Different exercises and angles will hit certain areas of SLABS better than others.....

I used the example of Steve Reeves hercules, and Vince Gironda. I almost exclusively used to do parallel dips for chest, wide elbows, bent forward , thru my teen years. I had the outer and lower developed and NOTHING really for the inside or the upper. You can feel a peak contraction, a harder contraction at certain angles for certain parts of teh muscle better and why is that? Awell that part of the muscle is being worked out harder at the time, regardless of whether there is a casual assist from teh rest of he muscle. When we damage muscle from working out, doesnt the muscle product IGF-1? Is not the damage relative to the amount of stress the muscle endured? I have recently been doing ped deck flys with a slight bias with chin on chest and shoulder off pad, back slightly rounded and I hit the upper chest, so much so, I can do ped deck til complete failure and immediately change this angle to reflect the above and go for almost a completely full set again! Slightly different angle, Yes, the whole muscle probably contracts but he range of motion for parts of it is full contraction, for other parts of the muscle it is barely a range I am starting to get upper chest develpment when I never had much if any before.

People do spider curls or peak contraction exercises to bring out a peak in a muscle and why? Cuz they WORK to do just THAT! Regardless of the reason why , the phisiology, it doesnt matter, wah matters is a part of the muscle that did not respond to other angles or exercises responded overwhelmingly more, targeted, on this one even if the entire muscle group has fibers within it assisting to some degree or another!

Abs, you do lower and upper, why bother? cuz altho the entire grop flexes, marts of it is stressed more and anyone who has done any lower abs will tell you, (lol, everyone here of course), the net day, they feel it in that targeted area MORE than if they had just done upper abs work.

This same argument goes for can you spot reduce, the old bodybuilders all felt they could and there is evidence today that states taht a muscle that is arobically worked out, (high reps for abs or obliques) will tend to use the fat that is closest to the targeted areas requiring the energy at the time.



For those who are not convinced, take one workout for chest and exclusively do dips and cross overs. Take another one and exclusively do inclines, where you are sore is where the damage was done....

Gazhole, lol... you are funny but to be fair, wide grip chinning vs shoulde width does focus more on targeted areas EVEN tho the entire back /lats are contracting, it does cuz parts of the back (some fibers) see a full contraction, some dont cuz of the angle while T-bar rows vs wide bent over rows, one is outer lats, one is inner back cuz the wide grip rows allows you to fully contract the inner back while the t bars you just get the initial movement. It is like doing partials for the inner and full reps for the outer....

The traps.... various places of inertion of the muscle, do shrugs vs doing reverse peck deck or wehe you pull up... different part of the muscle.....

The idea behind BODYBUILDING is to shape, contour each muscle within your own genetics 9where and how muscles start and end) vs a weightlifter or power lifter who have rugged muscles but none would ever win a bodybuilding contest cuz size, unbound size with just bulky shape doesnt win contests.. fully developed muscles from al angles does.

This is my take...

Think muscle fiber not muscle and think slabs that start and end not always in the same place and think partial rep for some vs full peak contraction for others depending on angle.

The proof is in the different body types creted by different systems. event eh high rep vs low rep fast vs slow twitching the muscle selectively recruits certain fibers along a spectrum
 
When doing DB presses does hand placement matter I was once told that as far as you can get your hands either in or out on the grip I think it was in but does it matter?
 
this is an age old argument of course can you target parts of a muscle. The argument goes that you can either contract a muscle or you dont, you cant contract part of a muscle OR you can target parts of a muscle....

Lets look at this: you CAN ONLY contract a "muscle fiber" the fiber itself either is contracted fully or it is NOT contractred. THAT is where the first argument above fails because it is NOT the muscle itself you contract but the muscle fibers. AND all muscle fibers for every muscle do not start and end at the same EXACT place.

The bicep has two muscles, the triceps have 3, we have the brachalis. For the thigh, we have the Quad(as in4) cepts....

The chest has slabs and slabs of muscle.....

Different exercises and angles will hit certain areas of SLABS better than others.....

I used the example of Steve Reeves hercules, and Vince Gironda. I almost exclusively used to do parallel dips for chest, wide elbows, bent forward , thru my teen years. I had the outer and lower developed and NOTHING really for the inside or the upper. You can feel a peak contraction, a harder contraction at certain angles for certain parts of teh muscle better and why is that? Awell that part of the muscle is being worked out harder at the time, regardless of whether there is a casual assist from teh rest of he muscle. When we damage muscle from working out, doesnt the muscle product IGF-1? Is not the damage relative to the amount of stress the muscle endured? I have recently been doing ped deck flys with a slight bias with chin on chest and shoulder off pad, back slightly rounded and I hit the upper chest, so much so, I can do ped deck til complete failure and immediately change this angle to reflect the above and go for almost a completely full set again! Slightly different angle, Yes, the whole muscle probably contracts but he range of motion for parts of it is full contraction, for other parts of the muscle it is barely a range I am starting to get upper chest develpment when I never had much if any before.

People do spider curls or peak contraction exercises to bring out a peak in a muscle and why? Cuz they WORK to do just THAT! Regardless of the reason why , the phisiology, it doesnt matter, wah matters is a part of the muscle that did not respond to other angles or exercises responded overwhelmingly more, targeted, on this one even if the entire muscle group has fibers within it assisting to some degree or another!

Abs, you do lower and upper, why bother? cuz altho the entire grop flexes, marts of it is stressed more and anyone who has done any lower abs will tell you, (lol, everyone here of course), the net day, they feel it in that targeted area MORE than if they had just done upper abs work.
Abs are exceptional - you can hit different parts of the muscle.

Rehabilitation of the spine: a ... - Google Books
This same argument goes for can you spot reduce, the old bodybuilders all felt they could and there is evidence today that states taht a muscle that is arobically worked out, (high reps for abs or obliques) will tend to use the fat that is closest to the targeted areas requiring the energy at the time.
This only works for intramuscular fat btw. The muscle will store fat near where it needs it, and this happens to women when they do tons of cardio while eaging hypercaloric, high-carb diets. Poliquin refers to this as the "kobe legs" phenomenon. In animals, it's called "marbling".

For those who are not convinced, take one workout for chest and exclusively do dips and cross overs. Take another one and exclusively do inclines, where you are sore is where the damage was done....
Soreness doesn't indicate growth.

Growth indicates growth. You can grow just fine without getting sore. Soreness is more a fallout of novelty - as the supporting tissues become accustomed to the work, it goes away. You still grow.
Gazhole, lol... you are funny but to be fair, wide grip chinning vs shoulde width does focus more on targeted areas EVEN tho the entire back /lats are contracting, it does cuz parts of the back (some fibers) see a full contraction, some dont cuz of the angle while T-bar rows vs wide bent over rows, one is outer lats, one is inner back cuz the wide grip rows allows you to fully contract the inner back while the t bars you just get the initial movement. It is like doing partials for the inner and full reps for the outer....
Interestingly, if you look at the physics, you'll see that by triangulating part of the force vector sideways, you in fact de-emphasize the load to the lat. The sideways force is taken up by the rotator cuff.

The only way to bypass this is to do these pulls one side at a time.

You may grow wide doing wide-grip work. You'd have grown wide anyway - but with less potential for trauma to the RC.

Some folks never have RC trouble, even doing stupid movements like these and upright rows.

Some folks run marathons on their toes. Gotta love genetics.
The traps.... various places of inertion of the muscle, do shrugs vs doing reverse peck deck or wehe you pull up... different part of the muscle.....

The idea behind BODYBUILDING is to shape, contour each muscle within your own genetics 9where and how muscles start and end) vs a weightlifter or power lifter who have rugged muscles but none would ever win a bodybuilding contest cuz size, unbound size with just bulky shape doesnt win contests.. fully developed muscles from al angles does.
Dave Gulledge, powerlifter.
DaveGulledge01.JPG



Dave Gulledge, dieted-down powerlifter:

DaveGulledge02.JPG
DaveGulledge03.JPG
DaveGulledge41.JPG
DaveGulledge05.JPG


This is my take...

Think muscle fiber not muscle and think slabs that start and end not always in the same place and think partial rep for some vs full peak contraction for others depending on angle.

The proof is in the different body types creted by different systems. event eh high rep vs low rep fast vs slow twitching the muscle selectively recruits certain fibers along a spectrum
You've done some thinking. Now how about doing some reading? It might help you argue more effectively once you understand what you're thinking about.
 
Where you feel soreness the next day is not a good indication for much of anything. If I do preacher curls the bottom of my biceps are sore and not the rest, does this mean I am going to build only the bottom part of my bicep? That's just not how it works. I do very little incline work and yet my upper chest really filled out as the whole thing grew. But enough bro science, how either one of us "feels" things work doesn't mean anything in all honestly. I could sit here and quote many many people that agree with me on this issue but so could you. It's been hugely debated. I always here people talk about how science says you can't target a muscle but I can't find anything on the internet that really has a good test to back it up(either side). It's time to get 100 untrained people and make them gained 20 pounds one only doing incline work for chest and others only doing declines and dips.
 
Spot reducing fat is wrong though, I will argue some more about that lol.
 
@ ihateschoolmt
thanks for the posts on top "how to build inner chest" i needed that :)
@topic starter-decline bench presses or dumbbell presses are the techs for you.Maintain correct form,or else you are just wasting time...
 
this is an age old argument of course can you target parts of a muscle. The argument goes that you can either contract a muscle or you dont, you cant contract part of a muscle OR you can target parts of a muscle....

Lets look at this: you CAN ONLY contract a "muscle fiber" the fiber itself either is contracted fully or it is NOT contractred. THAT is where the first argument above fails because it is NOT the muscle itself you contract but the muscle fibers. AND all muscle fibers for every muscle do not start and end at the same EXACT place.

The bicep has two muscles, the triceps have 3, we have the brachalis. For the thigh, we have the Quad(as in4) cepts....

The chest has slabs and slabs of muscle.....

Different exercises and angles will hit certain areas of SLABS better than others.....

I used the example of Steve Reeves hercules, and Vince Gironda. I almost exclusively used to do parallel dips for chest, wide elbows, bent forward , thru my teen years. I had the outer and lower developed and NOTHING really for the inside or the upper. You can feel a peak contraction, a harder contraction at certain angles for certain parts of teh muscle better and why is that? Awell that part of the muscle is being worked out harder at the time, regardless of whether there is a casual assist from teh rest of he muscle. When we damage muscle from working out, doesnt the muscle product IGF-1? Is not the damage relative to the amount of stress the muscle endured? I have recently been doing ped deck flys with a slight bias with chin on chest and shoulder off pad, back slightly rounded and I hit the upper chest, so much so, I can do ped deck til complete failure and immediately change this angle to reflect the above and go for almost a completely full set again! Slightly different angle, Yes, the whole muscle probably contracts but he range of motion for parts of it is full contraction, for other parts of the muscle it is barely a range I am starting to get upper chest develpment when I never had much if any before.

People do spider curls or peak contraction exercises to bring out a peak in a muscle and why? Cuz they WORK to do just THAT! Regardless of the reason why , the phisiology, it doesnt matter, wah matters is a part of the muscle that did not respond to other angles or exercises responded overwhelmingly more, targeted, on this one even if the entire muscle group has fibers within it assisting to some degree or another!

Abs, you do lower and upper, why bother? cuz altho the entire grop flexes, marts of it is stressed more and anyone who has done any lower abs will tell you, (lol, everyone here of course), the net day, they feel it in that targeted area MORE than if they had just done upper abs work.

This same argument goes for can you spot reduce, the old bodybuilders all felt they could and there is evidence today that states taht a muscle that is arobically worked out, (high reps for abs or obliques) will tend to use the fat that is closest to the targeted areas requiring the energy at the time.



For those who are not convinced, take one workout for chest and exclusively do dips and cross overs. Take another one and exclusively do inclines, where you are sore is where the damage was done....

Gazhole, lol... you are funny but to be fair, wide grip chinning vs shoulde width does focus more on targeted areas EVEN tho the entire back /lats are contracting, it does cuz parts of the back (some fibers) see a full contraction, some dont cuz of the angle while T-bar rows vs wide bent over rows, one is outer lats, one is inner back cuz the wide grip rows allows you to fully contract the inner back while the t bars you just get the initial movement. It is like doing partials for the inner and full reps for the outer....

The traps.... various places of inertion of the muscle, do shrugs vs doing reverse peck deck or wehe you pull up... different part of the muscle.....

The idea behind BODYBUILDING is to shape, contour each muscle within your own genetics 9where and how muscles start and end) vs a weightlifter or power lifter who have rugged muscles but none would ever win a bodybuilding contest cuz size, unbound size with just bulky shape doesnt win contests.. fully developed muscles from al angles does.

This is my take...

Think muscle fiber not muscle and think slabs that start and end not always in the same place and think partial rep for some vs full peak contraction for others depending on angle.

The proof is in the different body types creted by different systems. event eh high rep vs low rep fast vs slow twitching the muscle selectively recruits certain fibers along a spectrum

There's so much incorrect about what you just wrote I don't have enough time to talk about it all, especially if you're still justifying wide grip lat pulls. Why not go out another foot, or just on out to 179 degrees? Because you'd be relying on the structure of the RC to hold you and you'd be doing less lat work? yes
 
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