Here is the guy I'm getting my most recent advice from.

[Saturday Fever]

That hyperplasia comes with using test/GH. Sorry, I should have been more specific.

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Mudge
You can never again say you are natural if you have juiced, IMO. If nothing else then due to the small amounts of hyperplasia that comes with using test/GH (test can stimulate GH output).

You cannot claim "lifetime natural status", but you can claim that you are "now" natural.

There is still going to be a big difference in a physique of someone who juiced in the past, but no longer juices, especially if they compete. Contest dieting and getting ripped is one of the hardest things to do naturally, drugs help the pros tremendously in retaining the muscle mass and getting shredded.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Saturday Fever
That hyperplasia comes with using test/GH. Sorry, I should have been more specific.

Test is the only one that should be called into question, with a quick search I was able to dig up a couple:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15001624

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14960025

GH is a given.

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
You cannot claim "lifetime natural status", but you can claim that you are "now" natural.

I can go along with that.

 

[Johnnny]

But like my question states, if someone permanently stops using juice at the age of 25 or 30yrs old or whatever age & never uses them ever again for the rest of his life than that is training naturally? As the hormones & compounds are surely completely out of the persons system. So they have no steroids or extra hormones in the body to help them. They surely have lost some size & strength & are just relying on food & possibly supplements. Just as a person who never took steroids would.

I agree that while he is taking steroids he isn't natural at all. But like I said if the individual permanently stops his juice use, than he or she is training just like the rest of us with no help.

That is my opinion.

 

[Mudge]

It is training naturally but I believe it will help take the body beyond points that person would have been able to reach without ever having touched gear.

 

[Johnnny]

Yes Mudge I agree, but when a steroid user permanently stops using steroids, than he is training naturally.

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by nikegurl
wave2: gr81 )

hey cutie, How Yooouuu doin today?

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by Mudge
You can never again say you are natural if you have juiced, IMO. If nothing else then due to the small amounts of hyperplasia that comes with using test/GH (test can stimulate GH output).

Mudge, I have to gracefully but strongly disagree with you on this here. I consider myself completely natural and I have done a very unsuccessful cycle, probably mostly bunk. I was just about as heavy before I got on as I ever was on, and now I am like 20 lbs lighter than that. IMO you are not a steroid user until you have done 3 or 4 major cycles. the shit is out of your system so quickly, doing one measily cycle doesn't make you a gearhead by any means

 

[PreMier]

Originally posted by gr81
Jesus Christ Johnny just shut the fuck up. WHHHOOOOOOOOOO CARES?? why the hell do you want to know what we think about someone elses physique, especially if he isn't your trainier and has no real relationship to you? You have the dumbest most insignifigant posts and comments. So you know a guy that is ripped and has muscle and has done steroids, WTF!? The only possible reason you have dragged this thread on so long must be that you are fuckin this guy, is that it? By the way can I ask what this thread has to do with training?

Thats the funniest shit I have read in a ling time! Nice one partna!

 

[Johnnny]

PreMier yeah that's funny to you? I guess you didn't read what I replied?

 

[Johnnny]

Here is my reply

This is a bodybuilding forum right? Generally the ppl here are bodybuilders right? Generally bodybuilders discuss eachother's physiques. If you're reading a bodybuilding magazine like Flex which has alot of bodybuilders pictures in it for viewers to look at. If you tell your body check out Dorian Yates's back it's damn huge & ripped does that mean that you want to bang Dorian Yates? For you gr81 maybe, but for most ppl you are just admiring a great physique as you yourself are trying to develop one as well.

Anyway that's the reality.

 

[PreMier]

Yea, it was funny. Your reply was not.

To me, it seems that you are quite insecure with yourself. Before you go off on some shpiel on whatever it is you say, think about it. You are constantly repeating yourself, and putting words into others mouths. You start disecting things, and try to fint alternative meanings. I just dont see the point in it.

 

[Mindless]

I love you guys.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by gr81
I was just about as heavy before I got on as I ever was on, and now I am like 20 lbs lighter than that. IMO you are not a steroid user until you have done 3 or 4 major cycles.

Bro with the doses you advocate, you have probably already run my next 8 cycles for me.

If you diet right, you wont lose weight if you desire not to lose it. When I came off my last cycle I dieted down about 10 pounds in total, by slowly cutting calories during my off time.

 

[Johnnny]

PreMier I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth's. Nor am I insecure about anything. But When stupidity such as gr81 comes out, it needs to be replied to accordingly.

If ppl don't clearify what they really mean, than misunderstandings can happen very easily. I've seen a few posts in the past were you've misunderstood ppl & thought that they said one thing, but meant something else. So it happens to all of us.

I'm not trying to disect anything.

Like I said I just wanted ppl's opinion's on his physique as he is a body builder & this is a body building forum.

I was expecting to hear replies like "yeah he does have very good conditioning", "he's got pretty good development", "He's developed good size with his shape", or "overall he's pretty well proportioned".

These were the types of replies I was hoping to hear about his physique, not most of this nonsense that's been going on. If someone else posted a thread such as this one, I would have posted one of the above replies & not criticism.

 

[aztecwolf]

Shannon is getting a headache

 

[Johnnny]

aztecwolf who is Shannon? But I know what you mean about getting a headache. Like I said, almost all of these replies I didn't expect.

 

[aztecwolf]

Originally posted by aztecwolf
Shannon is getting a headache

 

[aztecwolf]

Originally posted by Johnnny
aztecwolf who is Shannon? But I know what you mean about getting a headache. Like I said, almost all of these replies I didn't expect.

that be me

 

[Johnnny]

aztecwolf

that be me

Oh. Well the headaches been cauesed by some of the ridiculous replies if you ask me. Like I said above, those were the types of replies I was expecting to get. Not the non sense that's been going on.

I just wanted opinions on his physique, that's all.

 

[PreMier]

Originally posted by Johnnny
I just wanted opinions on his physique, that's all.

We might be learning here The types of questions that you ask, dictate the answers that you recieve. KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by PreMier
Thats the funniest shit I have read in a ling time! Nice one partna!

ha ha, I just can't believe that no one else said it before me. He just goes on and on, constantly contradicting himself and appearing to be the most insecure, nitpicker on earth. Johnny, no one is taking this thread serious b/c it sounds like you are trying to be cool by association. "I know this guy thats in great shape, hooray for me." that type of shit. That may not b/c the case (although I bet it is) but thats how you come across bro. You seem to be extremely anal and neurotic dude, calm down for christs sake and stop getting so worked up over useless shit. then maybe people will take you more seriously b/c now they sure don't!

Originally posted by Mudge
Bro with the doses you advocate, you have probably already run my next 8 cycles for me.

If you diet right, you wont lose weight if you desire not to lose it. When I came off my last cycle I dieted down about 10 pounds in total, by slowly cutting calories during my off time.

I lost weight b/c of outstanding circumstances that kept me out of teh gym for a few months, plus I am certain that what I was running was not legit, or at least most of it, which would account for the crazy doses. I understand all what you are saying mudge and partially agree. My point was just that 1 steroid cycle doesn't necessarily make someone some big steroid user IMO. It takes extended use for that classification. You are right about the diet thou.

 

[Johnnny]

gr81

He just goes on and on, constantly contradicting himself and appearing to be the most insecure, nitpicker on earth.

I'm not insecure about anything nor am I a nitpicker. What are you 80yrs old? Nor an I insecure about anything. I have a lot of confidence in myself. But when ppl leave responses such as yours, it deserves a reply as your reply was uncalled for & unnecessary.

gr81

I know this guy thats in great shape, hooray for me." that type of shit. That may not b/c the case (although I bet it is) but thats how you come across bro. You seem to be extremely anal and neurotic dude, calm down

No that's not what I'm doing at all hooray for me crap. Like I said in my very first post I said

What do you think of his condition here? He is in pretty good condition if you ask me.

That's what I wanted to know from the beginning. I also just said a little bit about his life & that he has actually competed & won a contest & came 2nd & 3rd in some a couple of others. Like I've said from the beginning I wanted some opinions of his physique drugs or not.

Even though he's been on drugs (not currently & slightly bigger with condition, but not as ripped & follows an amazing diet) I still he think he knows what he's doing even though this isn't the subject at hand. Arnold, Franco & Lou even with their steroids couldn't have built their bodies the way they did without hard work, strict diet, & knowing what they're doing.

As in an above post, almost none of the replies that have been posted, I was expecting to here. I wouldn't have gotten slightly worked up if ppl had responded the way they did. I'm reacting to these responses including yours gr81.

I'm surprised ppl haven't responded commenting on his physique, hardly any replies commented his physique. I wouldn't have asked what you think of his physique if that wasn't my intention.

 

[JerseyDevil]

Anyone else notice that almost ALL of Johnnny's threads seem to go the same way. Just ignore this instigator. Heck, he can't even spell his own name right.

Not sure if it's true but when "Johnnny" first arrived here, someone (forget who) said to watch out for this guy because he has been banned from several other boards. I wonder why? Can you say troll?

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by gr81
My point was just that 1 steroid cycle doesn't necessarily make someone some big steroid user IMO.

Yep, only in the eyes of the public would someone be some big hardcore drug freak after a cycle or two.

 

[Johnnny]

JerseyDevil

Heck, he can't even spell his own name right.

Are yout that dense? Do you really think I can't spell my own name right? The username Johnny was already taken, so I had to put 3 N's in it. Next time think before you criticise.

Anyone else notice that almost ALL of Johnnny's threads seem to go the same way. Just ignore this instigator

So far there have only been a couple, a couple of threads that have gone sour. I'm not an instigator in any way. I guess you can't read as I explained my intentions of this thread right above yours. There was some misunderstanding of the thread as ppl thought I was paying this guy for advice just b/c of how he looks. I should've been more clear to avoid the misunderstandings.
But I've said it before & I'll say it again, I just wanted some opinions on this guy's physique. So you really should think before you criticise someone.

So back on track drugs or not, what do you think of this guys condition & size?

 

[JerseyDevil]

You are truly thick... and I don't mean that as a compliment.

So I take it you have been banned at other sites, given your lack of comment. That's all I need to know. Pssst, I was poking fun about your name moron.

So back on track drugs or not, what do you think of this guys condition & size?

So 86 posts later, you are still on it. It's pretty obvious to me you like to stir shit. And I disagree. Many of your threads turn into argumentative garbage.

 

[Dale Mabry]

Here is my take on the natural issue.

Say you are running a marathon. 10 miles in you get tired and hop on a truck for a mile or 2. You regain your wind and then run the remaining 14 miles on your own. Have you run a marathon? Because you only rode on a truck for 2 miles and now you are running the final 14 miles, are you no longer cheating?

That's my take. (The mention of cheating in this example in no way a metaphor for using steroids as being a form of cheating, BTW.)

 

[Johnnny]

JerseyDevil I thick you are the one who is thick, & not body wise. In the head. It's ppl like you that turn threads into arguments & insulting matches.

So I take it you have been banned at other sites, given your lack of comment. That's all I need to know.

As for being banned, it was only one site & I was banned b/c the head moderator was an idiotic jackass who let flaming & insult matches go on & on between ppl. He let even site moderators insult other ppl when they're supposed to be setting a good example, not throwing insults back & forth. I was only involved in a few of these. & I wasn't the only one banned from the site for this. & the only reason I insulted anyone is b/c ppl like would instigate arugements for no reason & I'd defend myself when I should've been more mature than them & ignore their candy ass.

Like I said it's only a couple of threads that have gone sour b/c of ppl like you. If ppl would stay on topic like giving their opinions on this guys physique, than there would be no arguements.

It's pretty obvious to me you like to stir shit. And I disagree. Many of your threads turn into argumentative garbage.

No you've got it backwards dude, I'm not the one who likes to stir up trouble in polite terms. There's a couple of ppl here as you've seen who like to stri up trouble which turn into arguements.

Like I keep saying & explaining my intentions for starting this thread which is hear your opinions on his physique that's all. I don't want any arguements going back & forth. I simply want to hear opinions on his physique. That's all a simple request.


Dale Mabry I agree with you.

 

[Novo]

I just can't help myself ... I'm trying, but my fingers keep typing!

Johnnnnnny, Honestly, it's been fun, I'm still laughing at the whole thread, but you MUST see it's time to stop asking for opinions of the damn trainer?!!

Let it go, it's time