High sets low reps?

[KataMaStEr]

Quick question, right now I???m throwing the shot and my coach makes us do this workouts high sets low reps, what is that for? For deadlift we had to do 10 x 5 at 70%. What???s the effect of that workout on you?
Got to head out to school now I???ll check back tonight, have a good day everyone!

 

[Dr. Pain]

1-3 reps = Power
3-5 reps = Strength
6-8 reps = Hypertrophy
12-25 reps = Endurance
25 plus = Shock

Nutshell version...there are many exceptions

DP

 

[Scotty the Body]

What DP said

Does he switch the rep scheme around or do you always do higher rep ranges?

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
1-3 reps = Power
3-5 reps = Strength
6-8 reps = Hypertrophy
12-25 reps = Endurance
25 plus = Shock

Nutshell version...there are many exceptions

DP

Just curious what the difference between power and strength is.

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Just curious what the difference between power and strength is.

hmmm...good question.

I always thought they were synonyms.

 

[w8lifter]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Just curious what the difference between power and strength is.

Speed.

Strength x Speed = Power

????

 

[Twin Peak]

If that is true I can't imagine the rep range would effect this.

Given your definitions, you would train for "power" by training explosively. You would train for strength otherwise, I suppose. But even then, if you were training power, you would commensurately train strength, no?

 

[w8lifter]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
If that is true I can't imagine the rep range would effect this.

Given your definitions, you would train for "power" by training explosively.

Yes

You would train for strength otherwise, I suppose. But even then, if you were training power, you would commensurately train strength, no?

I would think so??...if you're rep range is low like that. You could also train explosively for power at a higher rep range, like you said

I'm not sure if that is true...hence the question marks

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by w8lifter
I'm not sure if that is true...hence the question marks

I wasn't criticizing you, just pointing out why that possibility cannot be so. Perhaps through a logical discussion we can deduce the answer before DP answers it. I doubt it though.

 

[w8lifter]

LMAO!

I didn't take it as critisism <---HTF do you spell that .....I have no problem saying when i don't know what I'm talking about

 

[Dr. Pain]

A good example are the rep ranges for a single exercise of say


8, 6, 6, 4, 2, 18-25 (Some actually Squat and bench this way (PL's))

The 3 work sets, 2, failure sets (strength and power rep range) and then as John Parrillo coined, an endurance set at the the end for "Golgi Response" (some call this a burn, pump, or down set)

Just one of an infinite "variety" of training schemes........one could contend they "hit all of the bases!"

DP

 

[w8lifter]

Yes...but what is the difference between strength and power? Is it speed? When I think of power I think of two things...a clean or any PL movement, which is done explosively in low rep ranges....also working strength right? And then there's the type of power work Rob does when training for a fight, where he uses less weight and training explosively on the concentric.....which is more of a speed/power thing than strength, because he's already built strength during a previous phase of his training.

 

[Twin Peak]

Okay, but I still don't get the diff between power and strength in this context, and, for that matter, how the rep ranges you specified trains for one, over the other.

 

[Dr. Pain]

Originally posted by w8lifter
Yes...but what is the difference between strength and power? Is it speed? When I think of power I think of two things...a clean or any PL movement, which is done explosively in low rep ranges....also working strength right? And then there's the type of power work Rob does when training for a fight, where he uses less weight and training explosively on the concentric.....which is more of a speed/power thing than strength, because he's already built strength during a previous phase of his training.

It becomes "Semantic" at a certain point....I'm sure a student of Physics could set us Str8.

Speed is an important criteria....but think more of Maximum Force (Strength + Speed) = Power...Strength = SubMaximal Power/

Force X for more Reps (Time become a factor)...as does Load

So, TP's contention that Strength is a subset of Power is correct


DP

Food for thought.......A greater load can be moved in 1RM.......however, more work can be accomplished at Submaximal Loads

How "often" does the Shot get Putted? LOL

 

[Twin Peak]

So if person A can bench 400 once but needs to drop down to 365 to get two reps,

and person B can only bench 390 but can get two reps with 380,

it can be said that Person A is more powerful, but person B is stronger, at least as related to the bench press?

If that is so I am not sure that power and strength are the relative appropriate terms.

 

[Dr. Pain]

A better example...clones

Clone A benches 400 1 RM

but can move 350 X 5 or 1750 pounds of work

Clone B benches 400 for 1 RM

but can move 380 X 5 or 1900 pounds of work

Clone B would be 'Stronger" in that rep range!

Power has to take into acount Speed of the Movement.....If Clone A generated more foot pound of force, and completed the same lift faster...then that would be considered more Powerful!

DPower

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by Dr. Pain
A better example...clones

Clone A benches 400 1 RM

but can move 350 X 5 or 1750 pounds of work

Clone B benches 400 for 1 RM

but can move 380 X 5 or 1900 pounds of work

Clone B would be 'Stronger" in that rep range!

Power has to take into acount Speed of the Movement.....If Clone A generated more foot pound of force, and completed the same lift faster...then that would be considered more Powerful!

DPower

Hey don't be sticking your tongue at me. Cuz if this is true, you blow a major hole in your first post, which was my point.

Strength in a given rep range is something I understand.

Speed as a function of Power I also understand.

If that is true, then it would be odd to say, in a vacuum, that:

1-3 reps = Power
3-5 reps = Strength

would it not? So there!

BTW, given you chart, what happens if you train in the 9-11 rep range? Nothing?

 

[Dr. Pain]

Huh? What's your point again LOL?

I see nothing but consistency here


DP

(TP, you could let this rest if you want....the point was.."Why low reps")

BTW...at 9-11 reps, your left testicle can explode...so don't go there

 

[Twin Peak]

Point made.

 

[Arnold]

I just read everything you three people have posted...

I guess the way DP's is discerning Power and Strength is:

Power = explosiveness
Strength = max weight lifted

does that sum it up, or am I way off?

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by Prince
I just read everything you three people have posted...

I guess the way DP's is discerning Power and Strength is:

Power = explosiveness
Strength = max weight lifted

does that sum it up, or am I way off?

Way off. I think. Cuz then rep range wouldn't matter.

 

[Arnold]

1-3 reps = Power
3-5 reps = Strength
6-8 reps = Hypertrophy

this makes no sense to me.

DP what exactly do you mean by this?

anything less than 3 reps does not cause hypertrophy?

 

[KataMaStEr]

Originally posted by Scotty the Body
What DP said

Does he switch the rep scheme around or do you always do higher rep ranges?

He switches them around like today we had to so for bench 1 x 10 (40%) 4 x 6 (60%) 5x4 (70%)

 

[Scotty the Body]

Thats like 10 sets total, for just flat bench?

 

[Snake_Eyes]

The distinction that needs to be made is the load.

1-5 reps is optimal for training power (force * velocity), provided the loading is 50-65% of the 1RM (roughly). The idea is to accelerate the bar as much as possible.

1-5 reps at 85% or higher will do nothing for this quality, I should add, though there is another quality, Rate of Force Development (RFD), that can be enhanced by any accelerated movement. When higher loads come into play, its not so much actual speed that creates the effect as much as it is intent of speed. RFD is highly specific to the movement and to the load. This quality, when trained at higher %'s, is most relevant to weight training, and is commonly called "explosiveness."

Higher rep ranges, and fatigue in general, reduce the effectiveness of this training to a large degree.

Hypertrophy can be caused from nearly any rep range, provided minimal threshold tension and enough total repetitions; on average the 5-10 rep maximum is the "optimal" zone for causing growth.

 

[KataMaStEr]

Originally posted by Scotty the Body
Thats like 10 sets total, for just flat bench?

Yes for just flat bench, everything we do is 10 sets.

Bench, squat, deadlift you name it...

 

[firestorm]

Originally posted by Prince
hmmm...good question.

I always thought they were synonyms.

POWER is more explosive. you know, lying down on a bench for 3 gut wrenching reps. BAM, BAM, BAM!!!! (huff puff, grrrrrr)

Strength is just that. To make you stronger. Strength movements make your Poundages for the Power movements heavier.

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by Snake_Eyes
The distinction that needs to be made is the load.

1-5 reps is optimal for training power (force * velocity), provided the loading is 50-65% of the 1RM (roughly). The idea is to accelerate the bar as much as possible.

1-5 reps at 85% or higher will do nothing for this quality, I should add, though there is another quality, Rate of Force Development (RFD), that can be enhanced by any accelerated movement. When higher loads come into play, its not so much actual speed that creates the effect as much as it is intent of speed. RFD is highly specific to the movement and to the load. This quality, when trained at higher %'s, is most relevant to weight training, and is commonly called "explosiveness."

Higher rep ranges, and fatigue in general, reduce the effectiveness of this training to a large degree.

Hypertrophy can be caused from nearly any rep range, provided minimal threshold tension and enough total repetitions; on average the 5-10 rep maximum is the "optimal" zone for causing growth.

This I understand, and, personally, agree with.

 

[KataMaStEr]

I was looking at some power lifting routines and our routine looks like what they do. This is my 1st week following it and I feel so freaking sour.

 

[askjoe]

The high sets and low reps workout scheme is the basis of all effective powerlifting routines. It's what works, that's why he's recommending it to you.

Askjoe