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Higher Or Lower Reps Depending On Your Fibertype?

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cytrix

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what do you think about choosing the number of reps per exercise/time under tension depending on your fiber type, as in having predominantly fast twitch or low twitch muscle fibers? for example, if you are mostly slow twitch, should you train MOSTLY higher reps/50-70 sec. tension time, but also incorperate heavier weights for lower reps/lower tension time? or should you train EXCLUSIVELY regarding your dominant fiber type? and why?
 
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from what i've read on the subject you should train both fast and slow fibres since your muscles contain both. I don't think you should train exclusively one type of fibre. A technique that works for me is to train really heavy for 3 sets of 4, 3 then 2 reps then do a light set of about 15 fast reps to finish with. I could be totally wrong but it works for me!
 
Well, I answered this on elite but I also agree with ac.

I do sets of 4-6 reps with relatively fast speed, and then I do a set of 8-12 with a slow tempo for all of main exercise for each part. It's ace.
 
1 thing that has helped me in the past is to do 4 sets of an exercise. A minute and a half to 2 minutes between sets and do each set with the following reps: 15, 8, 15, 8 and choose a weight where you go to just about muscle failure. I don't recommend doing this on a regular basis because if you are trying to go to muscle fairlure, this high-low rep combo is very demanding but you will deffinitely know you had a workout.
 
large, when you say 8 or 15 reps, how much time do you spend on the concentric and eccentric part of each rep? what does the total tension time add up to? thanx!
 
Does anyone know whether or not specific muscles are generally fast or slow fibres. For example delts being fast and pecs being slow or are all your muscles the same?
 
Yes ac,each muscle group is primarily made up of either fast or slow twitch fibers.For example,the soleus muscle of the calf is primarily slow twitch,while the gastrocs are primarily fast twitch,as are the hamstrings.
 
Originally posted by cytrix
large, when you say 8 or 15 reps, how much time do you spend on the concentric and eccentric part of each rep? what does the total tension time add up to? thanx!
Click to expand...

I would say about 3 to 4 seconds on both the concertric and eccentric phases. Usually on all of my workouts I try to hit the eccentric part a little more but with this particular workout, I just try to keep it nice and smooth and to use the appropriate weights so that I go to muscular fairlar when I approach the 8th or 15th rep mark.
 
Gopro, could you give me a list of muscles which are mainly fast and which are mainly slow,
thanks again,
ac
 
ac - there isn't an accurate list. And even if there was (which is impossible) it doesn't matter. I repeat: Fiber composition doesn't matter in regards to your training.
 
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There is a relatively accurate list and yes it should affect the way in which you train.I'm in a huge rush,but will come back with more on this subject.
 
Everything I have read has stated that the only way to accurately determine which type of muscle fiber predominates for an individual, in an individual muscle group, is to have a muscle biopsy. It also varies from individual to individual, so I don't think this question could be accurately answered, by anyone but the person examining the biopsy.
 
Ok,let's clear up some stuff on fiber types as this is an important topic.
In general,there are four kinds of muscle fiber types in adult human skeletal muscle(there are actually more,but for this discussion,these four will suffice)....Type I,Type IIA,Type IID,and TypeIIB.

Type I,also known as slow-twitch or red fibers are the slowest,smallest,and highest endurance fibers.

Type IIA,IID,and IIB,also known as fast twitch or white fibers are faster,larger,and have less endurance than the Type I's.However,out of the type II's the IIB's are the fastest,largest,and have the LEAST endurance.As for these characteristics,the IID's are just under the IIB's,and the IIA's are just under the IID's.

Most of our muscles contain approximately 50% Type I's and 50% Type II's,although there is slight variations among individuals.As mentioned before,a muscle biopsy is the only way to get a truly accurate %.I should mention,however,there are a few exceptions to the 50/50 rule....the soleus muscle in the calf is predominantly slow twitch,while the gastrocnemius and hamstring muscles are predominantly fast twitch.

Keep in mind,however,that muscle-fiber types are not set and static.They are changable and moldable.There is actually a continuum of fiber types between your Type I and Type IIB.There is even evidence that shows that within some fibers there is an expression of multiple fiber types(yes,one fiber can be more than one type).Also,keep in mind that bodybuilding type training CONVERTS Type IIB's into Type IIA's.

What does this mean to all of us?Well,I plan to write an article on training all your fiber types for this website in the near future...As for now,suffice it to say that you should vary your training often.High reps,low reps,medium reps.High volume,lower intensity...low volume,higher intensity.Fast rep tempo,slow rep tempo.Etc,etc,etc.

I hope this gives you some insight on this matter,which is quite important to all us ironhead,muscle seekers!
 
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Excellent post gopro!

I really look forward in reading that article and I'm sure The Strange Being will too, he just might learn something! :D
 
Large,thanks and....LOL....:thumb:
 
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"Ok,let's clear up some stuff on fiber types as this is an important topic."

OK.

"In general,there are four kinds of muscle fiber types in adult human skeletal muscle(there are actually more,but for this discussion,these four will suffice)....Type I,Type IIA,Type IID,and TypeIIB."

What are the characteristics of a Type IID fiber?

"Type I,also known as slow-twitch or red fibers are the slowest,smallest,and highest endurance fibers."

Mmmm hmm.

"Type IIA,IID,and IIB,also known as fast twitch or white fibers are faster,larger,and have less endurance than the Type I's.However,out of the type II's the IIB's are the fastest,largest,and have the LEAST endurance.As for these characteristics,the IID's are just under the IIB's,and the IIA's are just under the IID's."

WTF is a Type IID fiber? What does it do? I just may learn something :)

"Most of our muscles contain approximately 50% Type I's and 50% Type II's,although there is slight variations among individuals.As mentioned before,a muscle biopsy is the only way to get a truly accurate %.I should mention,however,there are a few exceptions to the 50/50 rule....the soleus muscle in the calf is predominantly slow twitch,while the gastrocnemius and hamstring muscles are predominantly fast twitch."

Regardless of this, however, we should train each muscle based on our goals not their presumed fiber composition.

"Keep in mind,however,that muscle-fiber types are not set and static.They are changable and moldable.There is actually a continuum of fiber types between your Type I and Type IIB.There is even evidence that shows that within some fibers there is an expression of multiple fiber types(yes,one fiber can be more than one type).Also,keep in mind that bodybuilding type training CONVERTS Type IIB's into Type IIA's."

A fiber can't be more than one type, it can just take on certain characteristics of a another type. For example, endurance training can make Type IIB's become more IIA-like by increasing their oxidative properties. They can't really be both types though, as they still can't do the things IIB's can do to the extent of the IIb's. Bodybuilding type training can mean a billion things, but yes an average BBer prolly has more IIA's than an average PLer or OLer.

"What does this mean to all of us?Well,I plan to write an article on training all your fiber types for this website in the near future...As for now,suffice it to say that you should vary your training often.High reps,low reps,medium reps.High volume,lower intensity...low volume,higher intensity.Fast rep tempo,slow rep tempo.Etc,etc,etc."

I disagree. Based on the info you provided you can't possibly come to this conclusion accurately.

"I hope this gives you some insight on this matter,which is quite important to all us ironhead,muscle seekers!"

I really didn't gain any insight? You basically gave some basic facts and came to an unfounded conclusion that couldn't possibly come out of what you presented. Can you send me the article when you're done?

BTW large how can you say if that was a good post? You don't even know what a muscle fiber is ;)
 
Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing
"Ok,let's clear up some stuff on fiber types as this is an important topic."

OK.

"In general,there are four kinds of muscle fiber types in adult human skeletal muscle(there are actually more,but for this discussion,these four will suffice)....Type I,Type IIA,Type IID,and TypeIIB."

What are the characteristics of a Type IID fiber?

"Type I,also known as slow-twitch or red fibers are the slowest,smallest,and highest endurance fibers."

Mmmm hmm.

"Type IIA,IID,and IIB,also known as fast twitch or white fibers are faster,larger,and have less endurance than the Type I's.However,out of the type II's the IIB's are the fastest,largest,and have the LEAST endurance.As for these characteristics,the IID's are just under the IIB's,and the IIA's are just under the IID's."

WTF is a Type IID fiber? What does it do? I just may learn something :)

"Most of our muscles contain approximately 50% Type I's and 50% Type II's,although there is slight variations among individuals.As mentioned before,a muscle biopsy is the only way to get a truly accurate %.I should mention,however,there are a few exceptions to the 50/50 rule....the soleus muscle in the calf is predominantly slow twitch,while the gastrocnemius and hamstring muscles are predominantly fast twitch."

Regardless of this, however, we should train each muscle based on our goals not their presumed fiber composition.

"Keep in mind,however,that muscle-fiber types are not set and static.They are changable and moldable.There is actually a continuum of fiber types between your Type I and Type IIB.There is even evidence that shows that within some fibers there is an expression of multiple fiber types(yes,one fiber can be more than one type).Also,keep in mind that bodybuilding type training CONVERTS Type IIB's into Type IIA's."

A fiber can't be more than one type, it can just take on certain characteristics of a another type. For example, endurance training can make Type IIB's become more IIA-like by increasing their oxidative properties. They can't really be both types though, as they still can't do the things IIB's can do to the extent of the IIb's. Bodybuilding type training can mean a billion things, but yes an average BBer prolly has more IIA's than an average PLer or OLer.

"What does this mean to all of us?Well,I plan to write an article on training all your fiber types for this website in the near future...As for now,suffice it to say that you should vary your training often.High reps,low reps,medium reps.High volume,lower intensity...low volume,higher intensity.Fast rep tempo,slow rep tempo.Etc,etc,etc."

I disagree. Based on the info you provided you can't possibly come to this conclusion accurately.

"I hope this gives you some insight on this matter,which is quite important to all us ironhead,muscle seekers!"

I really didn't gain any insight? You basically gave some basic facts and came to an unfounded conclusion that couldn't possibly come out of what you presented. Can you send me the article when you're done?

BTW large how can you say if that was a good post? You don't even know what a muscle fiber is ;)
Click to expand...

LOL

gopro, I warned you man!
 
Originally posted by TheSupremeBeing
God forbid I question what he says.
Click to expand...

Did you Just use the term, "God." I didn't think you believed in him?

It's perfectly ok to question somebody but most people that know you know that you don't let something die even if you are dead wrong. And pretty soon the questioning and the friendly debates turn into flaming just because somebody doesn't agree with you.
 
Go Pro said,
"In general,there are four kinds of muscle fiber types in adult human skeletal muscle(there are actually more,but for this discussion,these four will suffice)....Type I,Type IIA,Type IID,and TypeIIB."

TSB said,
What are the characteristics of a Type IID fiber?

*** These fibres have been found in small mamals.
There are 4 types of Myosin Heavy Chain isoforms.
These 4 isoforms are the building blocks for the the defined fibre types such as the Type I, Type II etc....


Go Pro
"Most of our muscles contain approximately 50% Type I's and 50% Type II's,although there is slight variations among individuals.As mentioned before,a muscle biopsy is the only way to get a truly accurate %.I should mention,however,there are a few exceptions to the 50/50 rule....the soleus muscle in the calf is predominantly slow twitch,while the gastrocnemius and hamstring muscles are predominantly fast twitch."

TSB said,
Regardless of this, however, we should train each muscle based on our goals not their presumed fiber composition.

*** Of course, common sense would dictate this. I don't see Go saying anything about not training for the specific goal at hand?


Go Pro said,
"Keep in mind,however,that muscle-fiber types are not set and static.They are changable and moldable.There is actually a continuum of fiber types between your Type I and Type IIB.There is even evidence that shows that within some fibers there is an expression of multiple fiber types(yes,one fiber can be more than one type).Also,keep in mind that bodybuilding type training CONVERTS Type IIB's into Type IIA's."

TSB said,
A fiber can't be more than one type, it can just take on certain characteristics of a another type. For example, endurance training can make Type IIB's become more IIA-like by increasing their oxidative properties. They can't really be both types though, as they still can't do the things IIB's can do to the extent of the IIb's. Bodybuilding type training can mean a billion things, but yes an average BBer prolly has more IIA's than an average PLer or OLer.

*** Actually in some reasearch it has been shown that if the nerve is changed from a slow twitch and connected to a fast twitch fibre it will take on the characteristics of the fast twitch fibre. (Barjot et al,1998)
The possible fibre transformation is still under a lot of heavy research.
 
"*** These fibres have been found in small mamals.
There are 4 types of Myosin Heavy Chain isoforms.
These 4 isoforms are the building blocks for the the defined fibre types such as the Type I, Type II etc...."

Never heard of them, nice to know. I assume they aren't really important? Are they found in humans?

"*** Of course, common sense would dictate this. I don't see Go saying anything about not training for the specific goal at hand?"

Well, he said it should effect the way you train, which, IMO, is complete bollox.

"*** Actually in some reasearch it has been shown that if the nerve is changed from a slow twitch and connected to a fast twitch fibre it will take on the characteristics of the fast twitch fibre. (Barjot et al,1998)
The possible fibre transformation is still under a lot of heavy research."

That's what I said?

No I don't believe in god Large, did I say I believed in him or did I just say the word "god" rather meaninglessly?

I don't recall ever being dead wrong, perhaps a little off. I really don't see how you could make such a call anyway, or assume I really care.

Now go pm to prince whining about nothing :)
 
Ok.I'll try to get this over nice and quick...you know,like ripping off a bandaid.

A Type IID fiber is simply a sub group of the fast twitch muscle fibers.The Type IID's are faster,larger,and less endurance oriented than Type I's and Type IIA's,but not as fast or as large as the Type IIB's,while being slightly more endurance oriented than IIB's.Basically,as you increase the speed or force of contraction you'll sequentially recruit the IIA's,IID's,then IIB's.

As for fibers not being able to show characteristics of multiple types.....like I said,fiber types are not static,they are dynamic.Evidence shows that within one muscle fiber,you have the expression of more than one myosin isoform.Simply put,that means that,YES,one fiber can actually be more than one fiber type.Bodybuilders have been found to have some fibers which have a coexistence of the Type I and IIA isoforms,as well as a IIA and IIB combination.

Yes,we obviously must train according to our goals.However,since most people on here are generally intererested in hypertrophy of their muscles,they must learn how to tap into all muscle fibers to maximize their gains.Different techniques will affect different fiber types.Anyone who doesn't think so is a moron.

As for you not gaining any insight from my post...that's your problem.Oh,and by the way,perhaps my post can help others,not quite as well read or supremely intelligent as you TSB.

By the way...TSB,I won't e-mail you the article.You can read it here as Prince would like evryone to read it.
 
Thanks.

Though, you haven't changed my mind. I never argued against any of what you said, it's just that what you say doesn't exactly prove that fiber composition should effect your training.
 
Supreme...you are obviously a smart guy.So,I just don't understand why you don't think that training should be affected by our fiber type makeup.I mean,if we all have multiple fiber types,and different training methods affect certain types more than others,doesn't it make sense that in order to maximize the growth of all our fibers(not to mention other things like our cappillary beds)we need to train all of them using the most efficient method.Because we are bodybuilders we are somewhat unique in that our main goal is hypertrophy,not relative strength,speed strenth,or muscular endurance for example...and because of this we need to run the gamut of training methods.Now,the question is...what is the best way to do this?Well,only GOD knows for sure,but I've got plenty of ideas...and that is what my future article will be about :D
 
I think we are talking about different things.

What I am saying is that if some guy has a muscle that is 80% slow twitch, he should still train that muscle for fast twitch development. Or vice versa, or another percentage, or some other weird situation. This is what I thought you were argueing against.

I do think that people should train specifically for different fibers. But, training these different fibers should depend on their goals, as well.
 
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