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How much Glutamine?

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Actually, you keep baiting me. I won't bite. ;)

Nahhh, just playing, thats all...
 
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
You couldn't argue your way out of a paperbag without being bitchslapped.

Hmmm, never been slapped...prefer plastic to paper...and the only bitch I know is you...

...besides I don't bother arguing with people that are smaller than me.
 
Originally posted by Twin Peak
Royal Rumble at the O?

GP would have to tight his right arm behind his back though, since mine is useless.

Noooo... wouldn't want to have to break TPs other arm...he needs at least one to type with ;)
 
That's true, I do.
 
I don't type well with my face.
 
Originally posted by Twin Peak
I don't type well with my face.

I'll spare your feet...maybe you can use those...:D
 
Originally posted by bobbymac10
should glutamine be taken on an empty stomach or does it matter?

If its the L-form, then yes...if its peptides, then no.
 
Here is what I do not understand

I use creatine and I also use Grow Protein for post workouts. Now I was advised to use Glutamin. Now I don't mind using this providing it has properties that I can benefit from. I mean, how much recover suppliments can the body absorb?? Does creatine and Protein not provide the essential nutrients that the muscle needs to recover?? So my question is, How much more will Glutamin do for me???:confused:
 
Muscle Gelz Transdermals
IronMag Labs Prohormones
AV92 said:
I use creatine and I also use Grow Protein for post workouts. Now I was advised to use Glutamin. Now I don't mind using this providing it has properties that I can benefit from. I mean, how much recover suppliments can the body absorb?? Does creatine and Protein not provide the essential nutrients that the muscle needs to recover?? So my question is, How much more will Glutamin do for me???:confused:
Its impossible to put a percentage on it. Each little thing you do to improve your overall nutritional program will slowly add up to more gains later on.
 
bobbymac10 said:
should glutamine be taken on an empty stomach or does it matter?
It doesn't matter, since either way its a waste.
 
Twin Peak said:
It doesn't matter, since either way its a waste.
A waste only to lawyers, but those that TRULY have a clue KNOW the power of glutamine...but hey, you're just a part timer so how could you know any better.
 
gopro said:
A waste only to lawyers, but those that TRULY have a clue KNOW the power of glutamine...but hey, you're just a part timer so how could you know any better.
Good point.
 
I s'pose I should be an ignant lawyer 'din. :shrug:
 
Great points are so wonderful but too bad he's not correct...well, not entirely, b/c there are some who don't get much out of glutamine (but thats mostly b/c they are not using it enough...not using it right...or are expecting PH like gains which is not what every supplement is about).

Now, I will say once and for all (for the benefit of those that are unsure about glutamine)...I have been in this industry for 17 f-ing years and have trained hundreds and hundreds of people...athletes of all sports, bodybuilders, weekend warriors, the elderly, pregnant women, teens, etc...and with almost all of them I have used glutamine supplementation and have recorded and seen the positive results and the differences when they did not use it.

I have spent half of my life living for physique transformation and health and fitness, and just the way that TP can speak about the law I can speak about fitness/nutrition and all that is related.

Glutamine is very useful, and works very very well. It is one of our most valuable supplements. End of story.
 
What exactly does it do thats so useful/makes it so valuable? I never said, or thought that it was a mass gainer :)
 
Glutamine is very useful, and works very very well. It is one of our most valuable supplements. End of story.
its only valuable b/c we pay so much for it! lol.. value is subjective
 
I thought this was a good article on Glutamine, draw your own conclusions.

Glutamine Supplementation
By David Tolson

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?articleID=61


L-glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid in the body and also the most abundant amino acid the bloodstream. Originally considered to be nonessential because it can be readily synthesized by the enzyme glutamine synthetase, it has been established that glutamine can become essential under states of severe illness or injury, in which glutamine stores can become depleted [7, 12]. Glutamine is a precursor to glucose and many peptides, proteins, and nucleotides, and functions as an energy substrate for most cells [1, 8, 12]. Some areas where glutamine plays particularly important roles are the brain, immune system, skeletal muscle, and GI tract. In the immune system, glutamine is used as a metabolic fuel by fibroblasts, lymphocytes, and macrophages, and is also used for nucleotide synthesis. Skeletal muscle is the primary storage site for glutamine, and also the primary source of glutamine for other tissues. The GI tract uses glutamine as a fuel source, and uses more glutamine than any other area of the body.

The primary focus of research on the utility of supplemental L-glutamine has focused on situations of severe metabolic stress [1]. Glutamine has been researched in a wide variety of illnesses, including cancer, heart disease, and AIDS [3, 6]. Multiple meta-analyses have found that glutamine has many beneficial effects in critically ill patients, and glutamine may reduce mortality rates in long-term Intensive Care Unit patients by as much as 20% [1, 2]. Glutamine functions through multiple mechanisms of action, such as improving gastrointestinal tract health and immune health, acting as a precursor to glutathione, and decreasing ammonia buildup in the liver [1]. Along with HMB and arginine, glutamine helps decrease lean tissue wasting in cancer and AIDS patients, and glutamine prevents muscle protein breakdown from dexamethasone, a synthetic glucocortcoid [6, 11]. It is because of these benefits in catabolic states that it is postulated that glutamine supplementation would be beneficial for those engaged in intense exercise, an issue which is quite controversial.

It has been found in many studies that prolonged, exhaustive exercise causes a decrease in plasma glutamine levels. However, even after running a marathon, glutamine levels are only low for a period of 6-9 hours [9]. One study examined the glutamine levels in various types of athletes and found that some athletes, such as powerlifters, had particularly low plasma glutamine [9]. Overtraining has also been associated with a larger decrease in glutamine levels [9, 16]. In turn, it has been proposed that this decline can have a variety of negative effects that may be corrected with supplemental glutamine. Some of the proposed benefits of glutamine supplementation for athletes include increased immune function, increased protein synthesis, and increased rate of glycogen synthesis.

A central issue in the debate over whether glutamine supplements are beneficial is whether or not they actually increase levels of glutamine in the bloodstream. Most of the studies in states of critical illness utilize IV glutamine, and are therefore inapplicable. When glutamine is orally administered, a significant portion of it is taken up by the gut, where it is primarily oxidized, but also used to form glucose and for other purposes [22]. After ingestion of L-glutamine, about 50-75% of it is used by the gut depending on circumstances [9, 13, 14]. The amount that is extracted by the gut appears to be inversely correlated with dose ??? as more glutamine is administered, relatively less is taken up by the gut [14]. Despite the amount that doesn't make it to the bloodstream, many studies have found that orally administered L-glutamine still significantly raises plasma glutamine levels. For example, one study found that 5 g of orally administered glutamine doubled plasma glutamine within 30 minutes in healthy humans [16]. On the other hand, protein-bound glutamine (such as glutamine from casein or carob protein) has failed to significantly increase plasma glutamine in both human and animal studies where free L-glutamine was effective [11, 20]. When this information is put together, it would seem a high dose (at least 5-10 g) of free-form L-glutamine is the most effective way to increase levels of glutamine in the bloodstream.

Although L-glutamine supplements can significantly increase plasma glutamine, this does not necessarily equate to an increase in exercise performance or recovery ability. Multiple studies have been done, and none have yet shown that glutamine significantly improves exercise performance. In one study, 31 subjects were administered ~45 g of glutamine or placebo (maltodextrin) daily for six weeks along with resistance training. Compared to the placebo group, the glutamine group had slight improvements in their one rep maximum for squat and bench press and knee extension peak torque, as well as increased lean tissue mass and decreased markers of protein breakdown, but none of the differences were statistically significant [18]. Another study found that acute ingestion of glutamine did not improve weightlifting performance [21], but only six subjects were used, and given that the proposed mechanisms of action for glutamine are recovery-related, one would not expect a difference after acute ingestion in the first place. It seems that if glutamine does make a difference in exercise performance, it is a small one, especially at practical doses.

Beyond the studies that directly assess performance, there are also a number of studies on the effects glutamine has on other variables. Some researchers argue that the fall in glutamine levels after exhausting exercise may be related to suppression of the immune system. One investigation of 14 studies found that the self-reported incidence of illness in marathon runners was 32% lower in subjects who had consumed glutamine [9]. However, the mechanism for this is unknown, as most studies have found that glutamine fails to effect exercise-related changes in immune parameters [7, 9, 15]. Two studies have found that glutamine slightly blunts the postexercise increase in circulating neutrophils, but it is unknown whether this is clinically significant [9, 15]. One study also found that among certain marathon runners, glutamine speeded the restoration of circulating lymphocytes [9]. The differences in findings is probably related to differences in study design. It could be that glutamine does not significantly alter the magnitude of postexercise immune changes, but does speed the rate of recovery, especially in the case of extremely taxing exercise such as marathon running.

Another area in which glutamine has been explored is glycogen resynthesis. In one study, glutamine increased postexercise muscle glycogen concentration compared to alanine plus glycine providing an equal amount of calories. It has been argued that glutamine increases the activity of hepatic glycogen synthase, based on in vitro studies [5]. However, it could also be that glutamine is more readily converted to glucose than other amino acids. Either way, carbohydrates are still about three times as effective at promoting glycogen synthesis [19], and when glutamine was added to a glucose polymer drink it did not further promote muscle glycogen storage, although it appeared to increase liver glycogen storage [5]. Another study found glutamine alone did not effect glycogen resynthesis after glycogen depleting exercise [18], so the effect of glutamine in this area is once again controversial.

A final contention made by glutamine advocates is that it increases protein synthesis. This is based primarily on in vitro experiments, which have found that glutamine stimulates protein synthesis and inhibits protein breakdown [14]. However, in vivo, it appears that supplemental L-glutamine does not affect protein synthesis or increase glutamine levels in muscle tissue in healthy humans, even after IV administration [14, 17]. Increased glutamine availability does increase glutamine flux in muscle tissue (i.e., both uptake and outflow are increased but tissue levels are not changed), but this may limit transport mechanisms for other amino acids [17]. These studies do not rule out the potential for a small effect on protein synthesis of supplemental L-glutamine combined with an exercise program, but do indicate that it is not likely to make a significant difference.

Finally, there are a number of facts that can make glutamine supplementation less appealing. To maintain continually elevated levels of glutamine, one would have to supplement at least every two hours [16]. Glutamine administration also inhibits de novo synthesis of the amino acid in humans, which may make long-term supplementation less effective [20]. In healthy individuals, supplemental glutamine may decrease glutathione levels in some tissues by causing negative feedback [10]. Also, glutamine decreases vascular nitric oxide (NO) production [4]. There is also some concern that the metabolic by-products of glutamine may be toxic in large amounts [18]. However, there have been few reports of adverse events in clinical trials, even with large amounts of glutamine [1, 18].

In conclusion, few studies have demonstrated any sort of conclusive benefit from L-glutamine supplementation in athletes, although the existing evidence does support a small benefit. The most promising effect is a reduced incidence of infection after exhausting exercise, and in this case 5-10 g preworkout and/or postworkout may be effective. It may be especially useful during times of overtraining or high stress, such as on a diet, but this is only in theory. There is little evidence for a direct anabolic or performance enhancing effect of glutamine.


References:

1. Curr Opin Crit Care. 2003 Aug;9(4):279-85. Glutamine and acute illness. Wernerman J.


2. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2003 Mar;6(2):217-22. Role of L-glutamine in critical illness: new insights. Kelly D, Wischmeyer PE.

3. Nutrition. 2002 Feb;18(2):123-6. Is glutamine beneficial in ischemic heart disease? Khogali SE, Pringle SD, Weryk BV, Rennie MJ.

4. Clin Nutr. 1998 Feb;17(1):11-4. Dietary glutamine supplementation reduces plasma nitrate levels in rats. Houdijk AP, Visser JJ, Rijnsburger ER, Teerlink T, van Leeuwen PA.

5. J Appl Physiol. 1999 Jun;86(6):1770-7. Effect of oral glutamine on whole body carbohydrate storage during recovery from exhaustive exercise. Bowtell JL, Gelly K, Jackman ML, Patel A, Simeoni M, Rennie MJ.

6. Am J Surg. 2002 Apr;183(4):471-9. Reversal of cancer-related wasting using oral supplementation with a combination of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate, arginine, and glutamine. May PE, Barber A, D'Olimpio JT, Hourihane A, Abumrad NN.

7. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2002 Jan;5(1):69-75. Glutamine: clinical applications and mechanisms of action. Neu J, DeMarco V, Li N.

8. Int J Biochem Cell Biol. 2002 May;34(5):439-58. Glutamine and its relationship with intracellular redox status, oxidative stress and cell proliferation/death. Mates JM, Perez-Gomez C, Nunez de Castro I, Asenjo M, Marquez J.

9. Nutrition. 2002 May;18(5):371-5. Can glutamine modify the apparent immunodepression observed after prolonged, exhaustive exercise? Castell LM.

10. Nutrition. 2002 May;18(5):367-70. Impact of oral L-glutamine on glutathione, glutamine, and glutamate blood levels in volunteers. Valencia E, Marin A, Hardy G.

11. Nutrition. 2001 Jan;17(1):35-40. Effect of glutamine supplementation of the diet on tissue protein synthesis rate of glucocorticoid-treated rats. Boza JJ, Turini M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Gueissaz N, Gremaud G, Pouteau E, Piguet-Welsch C, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

12. Altern Med Rev. 1999 Aug;4(4):239-48. Therapeutic considerations of L-glutamine: a review of the literature. Miller AL.

13. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Apr;280(4):E669-75. Glutamine supplementation promotes anaplerosis but not oxidative energy delivery in human skeletal muscle. Bruce M, Constantin-Teodosiu D, Greenhaff PL, Boobis LH, Williams C, Bowtell JL.

14. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Feb;280(2):E323-33. Whole body and skeletal muscle glutamine metabolism in healthy subjects. Mittendorfer B, Volpi E, Wolfe RR.

15. Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2001 Oct;281(4):C1259-65. Effect of glutamine supplementation on exercise-induced changes in lymphocyte function. Krzywkowski K, Petersen EW, Ostrowski K, Kristensen JH, Boza J, Pedersen BK.

16. Amino Acids. 2001;20(1):49-61. The relation between glutamine and the immunodepression observed in exercise. Castell LM, Newsholme EA.

17. Clin Physiol. 2001 Jul;21(4):478-89. The effect of glutamine on protein balance and amino acid flux across arm and leg tissues in healthy volunteers. Svanberg E, Moller-Loswick AC, Matthews DE, Korner U, Lundholm K.

18. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9. Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

19. J Nutr. 2001 Sep;131(9 Suppl):2488S-90S; discussion 2496S-7S. Interaction between glutamine availability and metabolism of glycogen, tricarboxylic acid cycle intermediates and glutathione. Rennie MJ, Bowtell JL, Bruce M, Khogali SE.

19. J Nutr. 2001 Sep;131(9 Suppl):2556S-61S. Assessment of the safety of glutamine and other amino acids. Garlick PJ.

20. Nutrition. 2000 Nov-Dec;16(11-12):1037-42. Plasma glutamine response to enteral administration of glutamine in human volunteers (free glutamine versus protein-bound glutamine). Boza JJ, Maire J, Bovetto L, Ballevre O.

21. J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance. Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.

22. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2000 Apr;278(4):E593-602. Oxidation of glutamine by the splanchnic bed in humans. Haisch M, Fukagawa NK, Matthews DE.
 
Robert DiMaggio said:
Glutamine Supplementation
By David Tolson

http://www.bulknutrition.com/?articleID=61

Although L-glutamine supplements can significantly increase plasma glutamine, this does not necessarily equate to an increase in exercise performance or recovery ability. Multiple studies have been done, and none have yet shown that glutamine significantly improves exercise performance.
If it doesnt increase mass, doesnt increase recovery ability... what does it do? Thats what I thought, it drains your wallet!
 
Like I said draw your own conclusions...I do think it's worth using on a cutting diet if nothing else.

Personally I use 5 grams in my whey protein shake p/w. I used to use three 5 gram servings every day, AM, p/w and PM, but I stopped mainly cause I am not currently dieting, and I got sick of the nasty taste in my shakes! :D
 
Why do you think it is worth using on a cutting diet?

Just curious as to your reasoning. :)
 
gopro said:
I have spent half of my life living for physique transformation and health and fitness, and just the way that TP can speak about the law I can speak about fitness/nutrition and all that is related.
Actually, I can "speak about [certain aspects of] the law" because I am knowledgable about the law. Sure I have decent credentials (cum laude grad from Duke Law School, practicing for 6+ years at top worldwide law firms), but it is not these credentials that allow me to speak with authority on certain legal topics.

Rather, I can do so because (on those legal topics I chose to speak) I have looked into the various issues at play, have critically analyzed the situation, have digested the pertinent information, and have formed reasonable and logical opinions about those issues.

It helps that I never state something without citing to a relevant case or statute, and/or without supplying my full reasoning and logic so that the reader can understand my comments and assess for themselves the veracity of my statements, or the logic behind my arguments.

Not once have I said, "I know, because I am a lawyer."

Interestingly enough, having knowledge of the law, and having knowledge of nutrition, training, and supplementation are not mutually exclusive.

Indeed, I have more experience in background in the practical use of nutrition, training, and supplementation than I do of the law. The fact that I was over-fat my entire life, and had a 50 inch waist at 19, is only the beginning of this experience, and I think that it is not necessary to provide a laundry list of my credentials here.

Suffice it to say that despite my extensive and in depth practical experience in these matters, while I too "can speak about fitness/nutrition and all that is related", I know enough to know that I do have limits and so I chose only to speak about those aspects of fitness, nutrition, and supplementation on which I can speak accurately.
 
Glutamine has helped me increase muscle mass.
Glutamine has helped me retain mass during a diet.
Glutamine does increase my recovery ability.
Glutamine does increase my immune system.
Glutamine does decrease my level of muscle soreness after intense training.

And has had similar effects in hundreds of clients of mine.

If you find it does not do any of this for you, don't use it.

There are studies on almost every single dietary supplement that BOTH proves AND disproves its efficacy, so if you go by science you can go either way depending on whose study you read.

Debate this amongst yourselves if you wish. I will continue to use glutamine to my advantage every day...personally and with those I train. I know what it can do, and that's all that matters to me really.

For the rest of you, you can listen to me (and others that believe in glutamine), or to everyone else. The choice remains your until the FDA says otherwise.
 
Twin Peak said:
Actually, I can "speak about [certain aspects of] the law" because I am knowledgable about the law. Sure I have decent credentials (cum laude grad from Duke Law School, practicing for 6+ years at top worldwide law firms), but it is not these credentials that allow me to speak with authority on certain legal topics.

Rather, I can do so because (on those legal topics I chose to speak) I have looked into the various issues at play, have critically analyzed the situation, have digested the pertinent information, and have formed reasonable and logical opinions about those issues.

It helps that I never state something without citing to a relevant case or statute, and/or without supplying my full reasoning and logic so that the reader can understand my comments and assess for themselves the veracity of my statements, or the logic behind my arguments.

Not once have I said, "I know, because I am a lawyer."

Interestingly enough, having knowledge of the law, and having knowledge of nutrition, training, and supplementation are not mutually exclusive.

Indeed, I have more experience in background in the practical use of nutrition, training, and supplementation than I do of the law. The fact that I was over-fat my entire life, and had a 50 inch waist at 19, is only the beginning of this experience, and I think that it is not necessary to provide a laundry list of my credentials here.

Suffice it to say that despite my extensive and in depth practical experience in these matters, while I too "can speak about fitness/nutrition and all that is related", I know enough to know that I do have limits and so I chose only to speak about those aspects of fitness, nutrition, and supplementation on which I can speak accurately.

TP............I object!! This assumes facts not in evidence.:nanner:
 
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