I totally agree with that!!
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how to target my upper chest ?
- Thread starter Nick6
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I totally agree with that!!
Well, I agree with you when you say that most people should be focusing on basic movements that work a primary mover as well as secondary muscles, stabilizers, neutralizers, etc.
For your first several years of training you should be focused on bench press, military press, squats, deadlifts, pullups, dips, stiff deads, etc. Then, when you have reached a respectable level of development and/or want to compete, you can begin to work in more "isolation" movements to "shape" your body.
TRUE, TRUE, TRUE that!
However, I just want to point out that certain exercises will affect certain "areas" or "sections" of a muscle more than others. This can easily be proven in the gym. I can take myself or one of my clients and make their outer triceps more sore one day, and their inner triceps more sore the next. I can make their inner chest more sore than outer chest, and vice versa.
Also, you can look at EMG studies on muscles as they are being worked by various exercises at various angles, varying grips, etc., and cleary see which area of the muscle is being affected most.
I just want to mention one example here of a client of mine that is a high level competitive bodybuilder. Last year he placed 4th in a big contest, and he asked the judges what he needed to improve to do better. They told him he needed more "outer thigh sweep" and more "inner and upper chest."
He came to me and I changed his training to "target" these areas. We worked hard and diligently on a certain selection of execises and certain training techniques and this year his improvements in these once weak areas are "startling!"
He posed in front of a judge recently that was on the panel at his last show, and the guy was floored at his improvements!
You can shape the physique!
EMG may show more stress on one area of a muscle (although i find EMG studies quite suspect) it doesn't mean that it will cause growth in that area. If that was the case then you'd have all weird, lumpy muscles.
Btw, you'll notice i never mentioned quads in my query. More than one muscle makes up the quads so i never mention them in arguements like these.
I do agree you can stress things like medial triceps head by certain exercises, but you can't cause growth in these areas alone, or spur on growth in these areas in a faster rate than the rest of the muscle.
Even Dorian Yates, who's main chest builder was free weight incline press for many years, had a thicker lower chest in relation to upper chest (although his chest on the whole was frickin huge). At the end of the day it comes down to genetics. The lower portion of the chest is genetically predisposed to be thicker than the upper unless you have favourable genetics (Sergio Olivia is a good example of this).
I think guys (and gals) who spend their time trying to build upper chests with incline movements aren;t wasting their time as such, but they aren;t using their time as productively as they could. Inclines use too much deltoid for my liking so are more a pseudo-chest workout. I dropped them months ago and havent looked back since. My upper chest now compared to what it wa when i did inclines every week is no different, except for the fact that my entire chest is bigger (from using more favourable chest movements).
And the guys in my gym who still do inclines still aren;t having any luck altering their genetics. The guys who claim that inclines have helped their upper chest are merely disorientated because in that time their entire chest has gotten bigger, giving the appearance of a larger upper chest.
At the end of the day tho, some folk use inclines becuase flat is too harsh on their shoulder joints (usually from years of piss-poor form on the bench) whcih is fair enough. Inclines ARE a chest movement, but IMO they are the poorest form of press. IMO flat, slight declines (30 degress) and dips are all superior forms of press.
If you have even half the experience of gopro then fine, maybe it is time to see if you can play about with movements and angles to see if it helps but i seriously doubt it - especially as far as upper chest growth is concerned. But unless you are that big or have been training long enough then quit wasting time, or at least use it more productively.
that is all.
Btw, you'll notice i never mentioned quads in my query. More than one muscle makes up the quads so i never mention them in arguements like these.
I do agree you can stress things like medial triceps head by certain exercises, but you can't cause growth in these areas alone, or spur on growth in these areas in a faster rate than the rest of the muscle.
Even Dorian Yates, who's main chest builder was free weight incline press for many years, had a thicker lower chest in relation to upper chest (although his chest on the whole was frickin huge). At the end of the day it comes down to genetics. The lower portion of the chest is genetically predisposed to be thicker than the upper unless you have favourable genetics (Sergio Olivia is a good example of this).
I think guys (and gals) who spend their time trying to build upper chests with incline movements aren;t wasting their time as such, but they aren;t using their time as productively as they could. Inclines use too much deltoid for my liking so are more a pseudo-chest workout. I dropped them months ago and havent looked back since. My upper chest now compared to what it wa when i did inclines every week is no different, except for the fact that my entire chest is bigger (from using more favourable chest movements).
And the guys in my gym who still do inclines still aren;t having any luck altering their genetics. The guys who claim that inclines have helped their upper chest are merely disorientated because in that time their entire chest has gotten bigger, giving the appearance of a larger upper chest.
At the end of the day tho, some folk use inclines becuase flat is too harsh on their shoulder joints (usually from years of piss-poor form on the bench) whcih is fair enough. Inclines ARE a chest movement, but IMO they are the poorest form of press. IMO flat, slight declines (30 degress) and dips are all superior forms of press.
If you have even half the experience of gopro then fine, maybe it is time to see if you can play about with movements and angles to see if it helps but i seriously doubt it - especially as far as upper chest growth is concerned. But unless you are that big or have been training long enough then quit wasting time, or at least use it more productively.
that is all.
I respect your opinion on this matter Chicken Daddy...and like I said, I agree that beginners and intermediates should be more concerned about basic compound movements than wasting time on angles and isolation movements. They need a base first, and to find a pool of basic exercises that cause good overall growth for them...
However, regardless of EMG studies, I have been at this too long and trained and "shaped" too many bodies to ever doubt that a variety of angles, grips, compound, and isolation movements are needed to bring out the entire shape and genetic potential of a muscle.
You cannot a complete(meaning full genetic potential) physique using just one exercise for each bodypart...compound or not.
However, regardless of EMG studies, I have been at this too long and trained and "shaped" too many bodies to ever doubt that a variety of angles, grips, compound, and isolation movements are needed to bring out the entire shape and genetic potential of a muscle.
You cannot a complete(meaning full genetic potential) physique using just one exercise for each bodypart...compound or not.
"You cannot a complete(meaning full genetic potential) physique using just one exercise for each bodypart...compound or not."
I agree actually. Like i said previously, i do complimentary exercises to assist my daddy-exercises.
Other than that there isn't much left to be said here. it's two sides of the fence. Folk can make their own mind up.
I agree actually. Like i said previously, i do complimentary exercises to assist my daddy-exercises.
Other than that there isn't much left to be said here. it's two sides of the fence. Folk can make their own mind up.
But what about the outer chest?? You only went over the inner and upper 
...
Simple answer to a complex question... Use basic compound movements, incorporate a vary selection of isolation movements, eat properly, rest and it will grow.. lower, upper, middle, and outer... oh and minor too!!!!
...
Simple answer to a complex question... Use basic compound movements, incorporate a vary selection of isolation movements, eat properly, rest and it will grow.. lower, upper, middle, and outer... oh and minor too!!!!
Originally posted by Pitboss
But what about the outer chest?? You only went over the inner and upper
...
Is this a serious question? Are you gonna get me started again
Originally posted by gopro
Originally posted by Pitboss
But what about the outer chest?? You only went over the inner and upper
...
Is this a serious question? Are you gonna get me started again
well read the rest of that post....
but on the same subject sort of....
okay so you say you feel you can shape the muscle. That's what I'm reading... if that is the case how can I get my abs all equal in height and thickness?? My upper right ab sits a little lower than my left upper ab...
Originally posted by Pitboss
well read the rest of that post....
but on the same subject sort of....
okay so you say you feel you can shape the muscle. That's what I'm reading... if that is the case how can I get my abs all equal in height and thickness?? My upper right ab sits a little lower than my left upper ab...
It is actually a litle difficult to tell from your response how you feel about the issue in this thread...but anyway, as far as getting your upper and lower abs to the same thickness, that can be hard, but it can be done. Thickening one "specific box" cannot be done, and neither can the height of where your abs "sit" be changed either.
I'm just playing....
I'll stick to my original response which in my mind takes a neutral position...
Simple answer to a complex question... Use basic compound movements, incorporate a vary selection of isolation movements, eat properly, rest and it will grow.. lower, upper, middle, and outer... oh and minor too!!!!
Oh I'm with a TCD.. really I am. Just past experience with this topic and a thread that had over 500 posts... I've learned to keep my thoughts about this to myself..
Nothing against Go-pro and his thoughts on this either...
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
That's mah boy
Ok, it's me, you and Scotty thus far. The rebellion is growing Gopro
Your rebellion may be growing, but NOT outgrowing ME on my training methods(254 and counting)...this is MY house...just wait till you see how much I've infiltrated the WBB...
Neil
Registered
eeeasy there big fella
Actually you have swayed me a bit on the idea of shaping a muscle. I just don't want any newbies to be confused about their priorities. I was doing this stuff when I first started lifting and I wasted a lot of time on it. I think when someone asks a question about their upper chest or outer biceps the first thing that should be asked of them is their level of experience, just to avoid confusion.
Originally posted by Neil
eeeasy there big fella
Actually you have swayed me a bit on the idea of shaping a muscle. I just don't want any newbies to be confused about their priorities. I was doing this stuff when I first started lifting and I wasted a lot of time on it. I think when someone asks a question about their upper chest or outer biceps the first thing that should be asked of them is their level of experience, just to avoid confusion.
I ALWAYS ask people their level of experience as I always tell beginners to focus on basic exercises and not worry about shape. I've been at this a long time and train 13 year olds just starting out and seasoned competitors. Obviously their training must be very different from each other, just as I would not train a football player and a tennis player the same way.
As for eeeasy there big fella...can't do it...too much passion for this stuff....
Neil
Registered
Originally posted by gopro
As for eeeasy there big fella...can't do it...too much passion for this stuff....
I feel ya on that one
Keep it up, I'm lookin forward to seein some new pics when you compete again
So gopro, if you really can hit the upper chest more in relation to lower chest, then in theory you should be able to make the upper chest actually appear bigger than the lower portion right?
I'd like to see that.
I'd like to see that.
me personally, my upper chest is more defined than my lower chest. in recent years i have stayed away from declines except for maybe a burnout at the end of my chest workout.
in a whole though i would have to say that my entire chest is pretty symmetrical in its build. just lots of years of hard work
in a whole though i would have to say that my entire chest is pretty symmetrical in its build. just lots of years of hard work
hey if that is your thing, that's fine by me. i have just been posting things that work for me and if anyone can get anything out of it and help then great. but then again if you feel that your methods work best and so forth so be it!
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