Is 15-20mins of light-moderat cardio on rest days bad if in a toning period?

[Johnnny]

Yanick well if you're going to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, than have fun trying to build muscle as it will be eating away.


Ketosis is a bad thing & never said it was necessary for weight loss. For weight loss, your body needs fuel to burn fat. Like I've said already, without fuel your body will turn to protein & muscle tissue to supply the fuel. Therefore causing loss of valueable muscle & strength. Using caffeine makes it even worse on top of not eating. It will put your body it over drive.

From my experience & the knowledge of trainers & bodybuilders (both natural, & steroid users) cardio 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach isn't recommended for the very reason that your body will turn to protein & muscle for energy not fat. It's common knowledge or at least is should be.

But I know certain ppl are set in their ways & there's no convincing them until they see it for themselves. Which I hope is sooner, rather than later.

 

[BlueCorsair]

Out of curiosity, perhaps I missed it, what do you do P-funk - pre-food morning cardio, or only after lifting?

How about off days?

 

[P-funk]

Originally posted by BlueCorsair
Out of curiosity, perhaps I missed it, what do you do P-funk - pre-food morning cardio, or only after lifting?

How about off days?

If I don't do pre-food morning cardio then I do it after lifting. I try to do my cardio first thing in the AM if I have time and don't have any early clients. If not it is post workout.

what about on off days??? they are just that...OFFDAYS!!! DO NOTHING!!! REST!!

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Johnnny
Ketosis is a bad thing & never said it was necessary for weight loss.

How is this a bad thing? Its been argued that sedentary individuals should not do Atkins style diets but I see no reason to say its flat bad.

 

[P-funk]

Originally posted by Mudge
How is this a bad thing? Its been argued that sedentary individuals should not do Atkins style diets but I see no reason to say its flat bad.

There is no point in arguing with him. I am giving up.

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by P-funk
There is no point in arguing with him. I am giving up.

Smartest post I have seen all week Patrick. I am done trying to agrue with this jackoff. He is an anal-retentive little know-it-all that asks people questions and then argues tooth and nail when they answer him. If you are so god damm smart screwball, Then don't ask our opinions!! Every single one of your threads ends up like this, jesus christ. Get a fuccin life and stop wasting valuable peoples time!!

 

[Johnnny]

gr81

Smartest post I have seen all week Patrick. I am done trying to agrue with this jackoff. He is an anal-retentive little know-it-all that asks people questions and then argues tooth and nail when they answer him. If you are so god damm smart screwball, Then don't ask our opinions!! Every single one of your threads ends up like this, jesus christ. Get a fuccin life and stop wasting valuable peoples time!!

Personally you are the biggest jagoff I've ever seen. You act like you know everything & you never come to threads to help ppl or answer ppl's questions. You come to attack them in this case me. Again you prove that here as you haven't answered any the question of the thread.

As for answering my questions it has gotten way off topic. My question was the same as the thread's title. Would 15-20mins of light-moderate cardio on off days from lifting interfear with your body's recovery period from the previous days workout.

Somehow this thread turned into a thread about doing cardio 1st thing in the morning which is totally unhealthy & will eventually put your body into a state of ketosis which will start burning muscle tissue not fat.

I know what I'm talking about on this as I've been reading this stuff for awhile no including from some of Arnold's books who definetely knows what he's talking about.

Besides this is totally off topic from what my main question was. I didn't care who does what in the morning on an empty stomach, I only cared about cardio on off days from the gym interfearing from recovery period.

But since this subject came up, I had to informly correct ppl.
I'm not trying to criticise you P-Funk, but as a personal trainer you should already know that it's not healthy to do weights or cardio on an empty stomach especially cardio for fat burning.

All I'm going to say is your body needs fuel to burn especially for fat burning.

I think Arnold knows what he's talking about as I've read some things about this in some books with Arnold's information.

 

[PreMier]

Have you even seen P-funks pictures? When you look like him, you KNOW what the hell your doing. As for you... we will never know.

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by Johnnny
But since this subject came up, I had to informly correct ppl.
I'm not trying to criticise you P-Funk, but as a personal trainer you should already know that it's not healthy to do weights or cardio on an empty stomach especially cardio for fat burning.

All I'm going to say is your body needs fuel to burn especially for fat burning.

I think Arnold knows what he's talking about as I've read some things about this in some books with Arnold's information.

hey bro, I was just wondering, do you actually have any facts to back up your ridiculously off the wall claims. Please post some facts or studies of any kind from a credible reputable source thats backs up your point AND that disproves Patricks. If you can't do that then stop telling people that they are wrong over and over with no foundation. I know for a fact that Mudge, Pfunk, and Prince, and I all are educated and know a great deal of information on this and many other topics. So far I have not seen you post anything in any of your threads but your misguided opinion. Back up that mouth of yours and the junk comin our of it please. Arnolds theories are outdated and are not scientifically accurate, not by a long shot. Do you also have 2 seperate 4 hr training sessions like he does? If you don't then why not, he's arnold, he must be correct about everything he has ever said in his life. Arnold knew alot for his time, but we are not in the 70'ss anymore, this is 2004 and you cannot argue with science..well at least most people couldn't anyways. You could argue with a brick wall.
by the way, you can way what you will about me, but I am respected here and you are not, so take that how you want.. I don't harass anyone but you b/c you have nothing positive to add here. I care not what you say 'bout me either. Keep on talkin, no one is listening..

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Johnnny
Yanick well if you're going to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, than have fun trying to build muscle as it will be eating away.

I agree that doing morning cardio on an empty stomach puts your body in a severe catabolic state. And seeing that blood glucose levels are very low in the morning it's very possible that muscle tissue will be broken down in order for the body to get the glucose it needs for energy. If you're going to do it I highly recommend a "carb drink", like Cytomax be used to help prevent this.

 

[Arnold]

so basically what I am saying is Johnnny has a valid point.

 

[Johnnny]

Robert DiMaggio

I agree that doing morning cardio on an empty stomach puts your body in a severe catabolic state. And seeing that blood glucose levels are very low in the morning it's very possible that muscle tissue will be broken down in order for the body to get the glucose it needs for energy. If you're going to do it I highly recommend a "carb drink", like Cytomax be used to help prevent this.

Thank you

As for the carb drink suggestion, they'll probably say it will interfear with fat burning or something as they want to be on a completely empty stomach.

Personally I do my 15-20mins of 15 second sprints after my workout & I bring some beef & a oatmeal bar & eat it right away after my workout. Then I go home & shower & eat a skinless boneless chicken breast with a bit more oatmeal followed by 2 more meals consiting of protein & green vegetables.

 

[tucker01]

Plain and Simple do what works for you. Everyone is different, if you get better results from empty stomach cardio fine, if not that is also fine.

Experiment with different things and figure out what works.

 

[Johnnny]

Robert DiMaggio has already said

I agree that doing morning cardio on an empty stomach puts your body in a severe catabolic state. And seeing that blood glucose levels are very low in the morning it's very possible that muscle tissue will be broken down in order for the body to get the glucose it needs for energy. If you're going to do it I highly recommend a "carb drink", like Cytomax be used to help prevent this.

I personally think he knows what he is doing for many things, yet some still chose not to believe him or me.

If your goal is building muscle while staying lean, than doing cardio in this manner will not help you at all.

It isn't even healthy or that good of a procedure for ppl who need to lose fat as they'll be burning muscle tissue & protein if they do it this way not the fat they need to lose.

I wouldn't recommed giving clients this advice to help them lose weight. If they start getting sick, it's the trainers fault & then the client will come after you when they find out exactly what went wrong. B/c if they're someone who's never trained before they won't know any better.

 

[P-funk]

Johnny Wrote:

But since this subject came up, I had to informly correct ppl. I'm not trying to criticise you P-Funk, but as a personal trainer you should already know that it's not healthy to do weights or cardio on an empty stomach especially cardio for fat burning.

If you aren't citisising me then what the hell are you doing? calling me a dumbass?? If you were smart you would post a study that dispells what I am saying. That is the best way to argue. Here is a study that backs up my argument. Like i said, this is an age old debate that you can't find a concrete answer to. For every study you post defending yourself I can find one more that defends my point of view. Like Ian said, see what works best for you. The body is complicated and works differently for everyone. If you want to argue/debate with me then fine but don't ever try and tell me that I am not doing my job properly or that I am not inorming people correctly. I have not publicly bashed you in anyway....but keep it up and I may have to.


Energy metabolism during exercise at different time intervals following a meal.

Willcutts KF, Wilcox AR, Grunewald KK.

Department of Physical Education, Dance and Leisure Studies, Kansas State University, Manhattan 66506.

The objective of this study was to compare caloric expenditure and substrate utilization during exercise begun at different time intervals following a standard test meal or in the fasted state. Eight physically fit women (aged 21-27 years) participated in four separate exercise trials. In three trials, the subjects consumed a 940-kcal meal following an overnight fast and began exercising either 30, 60, or 90 min after the meal. In the other trial, the subjects did not consume any breakfast prior to exercising. Energy expenditure and substrate utilization were determined by indirect calorimetry during the last 23 min of a 30-min run on a treadmill at an average work load of 62% VO2max. There were no significant differences among trials when comparing the total caloric expenditures (range: 215-219 kcal). However, the subjects oxidized significantly more fat (94.3 kcal) when they exercised on an empty stomach than when they exercised 60 or 90 min after the meal (71.6 and 68.8 kcal, respectively) (P less than 0.05). It was concluded that consumption of a meal prior to exercise does not increase the energy cost of the activity for physically fit women, but it does disrupt the pattern of substrate utilization, reducing the contribution of fat as an energy source.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk so I guess you don't believe Prince either than? I guess he has no credibility either eh?

Here is what Prince a.k.a Robert DiMaggio said? He agree's with me here is what he said

I agree that doing morning cardio on an empty stomach puts your body in a severe catabolic state. And seeing that blood glucose levels are very low in the morning it's very possible that muscle tissue will be broken down in order for the body to get the glucose it needs for energy. If you're going to do it I highly recommend a "carb drink", like Cytomax be used to help prevent this.

So I guess none of you believe Prince either if you're not believing me. Oh well.

If it were me I wouldn't be giving this advice to my clients cause if they get sick, they'll be pissed at me.

 

[CowPimp]

Originally posted by Johnnny
P-funk so I guess you don't believe Prince either than? I guess he has no credibility either eh?

Here is what Prince a.k.a Robert DiMaggio said? He agree's with me here is what he said



So I guess none of you believe Prince either if you're not believing me. Oh well.

If it were me I wouldn't be giving this advice to my clients cause if they get sick, they'll be pissed at me.

How are you going to argue with someone when they have already provided scientific and real world proof to backup their statements? I'm not saying you don't have a valid point Johnnny. I think you do. However, P-Funk obviously knows what he is talking about as well.

Personally, I can't handle doing anything before I eat. P-Funk's method is not for me. Does that mean that I think it's wrong or worthless? No. You have to stop looking at things as right or wrong in the context of training methods. You have to start looking at them as effective for some and not effective for others. Why don't you try out his method before you decide that it's "wrong?"

 

[Johnnny]

CowPimp I've tried that method before I knew it was unhealthy.
I started losing muscle size & strength & weight in just a couple of weeks & was starting to feel burnt out.

Most ppl I've known who've made the mistake of trying this method of no food 1st thing in the morning cardio end up with the same result as I had.

I so guess you still think Prince doesn't know what he's talking about as he agrees with me.

Maybe P-funk has good pictures, but maybe he could be bigger, stronger & leaner if he ate enough food before his cardio.

It has been proven that doing cardio on an empty stomach 1st thing in the morning will put your body in a state of ketosis & your body will start going to the protein & your muscle tissue for energy instead of burning fat the way ppl think it will.

You will lose weight, but it will be muscle & tissue not fat.

Prince knows what he's talking about & so do I as I've read this so many times & heard it from sooo many certified trainers & body builders natural & steroid enhanced.

So I think they know what they're doing as they've been in the game for a long time & have had to do extensive research so they know how to help their clients achieve their goals.

But again this is totally off topic from the thread.

 

[CowPimp]

I'm not saying Prince doesn't know what he's talking about. As I said, I agree with what you are saying and I don't choose to use that method myself. I am also saying that if it works for P-Funk, then you have no right telling him it's wrong. He knows his body better than you do, just as you know your body better than he does. You do what works for you and he does what works for him. Let's keep it that way and not butt heads.

 

[tucker01]

Your body doesn't go to Ketosis that quickly, there are reserves built up that probably would last a couple of days.

Note Patrick also stated that he has tried both methods, and feels that empty stomach cardio works for him.

Again. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT, EXPERIMENT AND LOG YOUR RESULTS TO NOTICE CHANGES. USE THAT TO MAKE YOUR DECISION. Not because joe blow says so, or some outdated book makes it sound a certain way.

Anyway, I am out of hear, just feel like I am beating my head on a wall, and shit I don't even know that much.

 

[Johnnny]

CowPimp like I said P-funk maybe could be bigger, stronger & leaner if he did his cardio with food in his system.

Since he's causing his body to use protein & muscle tissue for energy instead of fat, he is losing size & strength. That is why I say he could be bigger & stronger & have a more heavier lean muscled physique.

 

[Johnnny]

IainDaniel ketosis will eventually happen. But the fact of the matter is that even if it's not in ketosis immediately, having no food especially carbs in your system will cause your body to turn to muscle & tissue for energy.

 

[P-funk]

P-funk so I guess you don't believe Prince either than? I guess he has no credibility either eh?

Johnny, not olny are you incredibly stupid but you also have problems reading. Maybe the fact that you can't read and comprehend is your biggest problem......I never said that I don't agree with prince and I never said that I don't agree with you. All I said was that I feel it is a great way to do cardio when you are trying to get lean. Prince has a lot of credibility in my book as he has proven himself to be very wise and well read since I have been a member here. I value his opinion, which is always backed not only with personal trail and error from years of trainig BUT SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE, which you have failed to provide me with. So, you have no credibilty in my book and after reading some of your other threads you are terribly missinformed on a lot of things.

here are some of my key phrases incase you missed them:

Here is a study that backs up my argument. Like i said, this is an age old debate that you can't find a concrete answer to. For every study you post defending yourself I can find one more that defends my point of view

The main reson that I feel it works is because I have tried it both ways and this works for me. I know my body pretty darn well.

For every study that you show me that states it is not effective i can show you two more that say it is and vice versa. We can go back and forth

Johnny wrote:

Maybe P-funk has good pictures, but maybe he could be bigger, stronger & leaner if he ate enough food before his cardio.

I would never be doing cardio on an empty stomach if I wasn't dieting. the only time I do this is if I am dieting down so that I make sure I am gettgin as big and as strong as I can every other time.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk I don't appreciate your comments at the beginning of the thread.

Results & experiences speak louder than words. Sometimes it's hard to find info to back your own personal statements & experiences as there are many sites on the web that don't always give the good advice. All I can say is that if the majority of ppl where ever they are & what ever gym they go to have has the same results from a certain training & diet regime or a negative effect from a training method or whatever, results even negative speak louder than words.

You can still diet down & get lean without losing muscle/strength while eating before doing your cardio. I'm doing it right now with my 15-20mins worth of 15second sprints AFTER my weight lifting workout. Plus I only have time to go to the gym once a day 4-5 times a week.

 

[P-funk]

Originally posted by Johnnny
P-funk I don't appreciate your comments at the beginning of the thread.

Results & experiences speak louder than words. Sometimes it's hard to find info to back your own personal statements & experiences as there are many sites on the web that don't always give the good advice. All I can say is that if the majority of ppl where ever they are & what ever gym they go to have has the same results from a certain training & diet regime or a negative effect from a training method or whatever, results even negative speak louder than words.

You can still diet down & get lean without losing muscle/strength while eating before doing your cardio. I'm doing it right now with my 15-20mins worth of 15second sprints AFTER my weight lifting workout. Plus I only have time to go to the gym once a day 4-5 times a week.

I don;t appreciate YOUR comments at all!! All you have done is critise me and say that I am giving people "miss information". All I did was provide you with scientific evidence to back up my idea. I was not disagreeing with you, rather offering another side of the coin for everyone here to try some different methosa and see WHAT WORKS BEST FOR THEM. Experience is great for you but if are trying to debate something then you need to show evidence for your reasoning, not jsut list you personal experience. That is not good enough for me and not good enough for many others here and elsewhere. Someitmes it is hard to find info to back up your own personal findings if you don't know were to look or how to go about it. Judging by other threads that you have started I would say that you are very new to weight training, or at least weight training seriouisly. And I would even go as far to say that you probably have never even done early morining cardio on an empty stomach for enough weeks in a row to come to a final decision, while journaling you findings, your bf% (lost) in comparion to your weight loss and your overal measurments. When I try different trainig ideas out I journal everything so that I know what works for me and what doesn't and to help others out I keep my journal here so that everyone can see incase they have questions or would like to try.

Your ability to reason and debate properly is way off base. I am absolutly out raged at the fact that you talked down to me and I tried to discredit what I was saying without any proper evidence to back things up. I am always willing to help people out as much as I can. my first post in this thread was a joke (I like to joke around a lot and be sarcastic and maybe you haven't been here long enough to realize that so I am sorry if you took it the worng way). I don't claim to know everything and I have learned a lot from others here and am always open to different ideas and philosophies. I have been doing this stuff for a long time and I work hard at it. I study a lot and I don't need someone suggesting that I am a dumbass. Don't ever expect me to help you out because I only respect those that give the respect back whether they are just starting out or have been in this game for a long time.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk I apologize if I came off in critcising you. But I'm just concerned about other ppl here especially new ppl who don't no much & take advice from everywhere that man not always be the best or healthiest. We were all like that when we first started training. I never said or meant to say that you think you know everything. I have nothing against you.

But Prince backed up what I was saying about doing cardio 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach isn't healthy or good as your body will start going towards your protein, tissue & lean mass for energy not fat.

You can still get very lean & big doing your cardio after eating some protein & carbs. That's all. Instead of doing it for a cutting period, you should just try doing your cardio with food prior to the cardio. That's all.

I never said you were a dumbass or anything of the sort. you should just reconsider what Prince & I have said about cardio 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach not being healthy.

It might not mean much but the majority of ppl I've met who've tried this procedure to get lean have eventually burned themselves out after a couple of weeks & have actually lost muscle. That's all, you yourself could be much bigger & leaner than as you are when you do your cardio on an empty stomach 1st thing in the morning even on a cutting period. That's all.

I have nothing against you, I'm just steering you in the right direction along with the ppl here who don't know any better.
I know bodybuilders who are 250lbs ripped steroid enhanced & they too lost muscle size/strength doing their cardio 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach.

It's just not good for you. Like I said I also tried it & I was burnt out after 10days & lost a lot of strength & had to take a week off from training to recover from the ordeal.

Just reconsider, but if you're convinced that it works & won't lose muscle or strength than I guess there's no convincing you.

But I wouldn't recommend giving this advice to clients, because if they get sick or something from doing this then they'll be after you & you'll be in trouble. I've seen this sort of thing happen between trainer & client & it isn't pretty. Just be careful that's all.

 

[P-funk]

I have nothing against you, I'm just steering you in the right direction along with the ppl here who don't know any better.

thanks for steering me in the right directin because I don't know any better.

Just shut up!!!

It isn't that i am not concivneced that it works. It is that sciene proves that it works...read the damn study!!

I don't care about 205lb bb'ers and I don't care if you got burned out after 10 days of it. maybe you were severly deconditoned at the time you tried it. Whoe knows. Maybe you just train like a wuss and can't handle it.

Don't try and apologize to me. It wont work. I have no interst in hearing what you have to say.

 

[Johnnny]

P-funk I'm trying to get along with you here but the door swings both ways.

thanks for steering me in the right directin because I don't know any better.

I never said you didn't know any better, you just might be misinformed as was I.

It isn't that i am not concivneced that it works. It is that sciene proves that it works...read the damn study!!

Science also proves that it causes ketosis & that your body will turn to your tissue & lean mass for energy not fat as Prince also says. Science also proves that without glycogen your body won't burn fat very effectively.

I don't care about 205lb bb'ers and I don't care if you got burned out after 10 days of it. maybe you were severly deconditoned at the time you tried it. Whoe knows. Maybe you just train like a wuss and can't handle it.

I said 250lb bodybuilders. As for me being deconditioned & training like a wuss? You don't know anything about my training or conditioning. I've run 40 yard dash sprints & I still run sprints on the treadmill I do 10 20second sprints in 15mins after 55mins of weights. My 40yard dash was between 4.5-4.55 which is very good for a almost 230lb RB & is probably a little higher now as I'm not training the same or doing plyometrics very much but I could get it back down to 4.5 or so if I really wanted. So don't come at me telling me that it's because I'm underconditioned.

Don't try and apologize to me. It wont work. I have no interst in hearing what you have to say.

Well again I'm trying to get along with you here as I still have nothing against you even after you've insulted me But this statement says what type of person you could possibly be? Unless you prove me wrong.

I don't want to have arguements with you or not get along with you, but on this one I have to agree with Prince. But I'm still willing to get along with you as I have no beef with you.

 

[BlueCorsair]

Lovely little flame war gentleman.

And what have we learned?

Some say no pre-food cardio. Some say pre-food cardio.

Joy. I'm sure all of us who actually cared about the "real" answer are now suitably terrified of fucking up and looking anorexic.

Thanks guys

On a personal note, I think I'll try 16 minutes or so of HIIT on a couple of "off" days per week, about an hour to two hours after my first meal.

I'm an ecto, and my very hard try at a bulk got me from 128 to 155 pounds. At 5'6, and with a tiny bone structure like mine, that was a feat in and of itself. On even the *slight* possibility that pre-food cardio can cause muscle loss (catabolism) I simply have to avoid it. I'm not big and beefy, and I can't afford to lose anymore than the bare minimum.

So, thanks for the...erm. Histrionics.

 

[P-funk]

Originally posted by BlueCorsair
Lovely little flame war gentleman.

And what have we learned?

Some say no pre-food cardio. Some say pre-food cardio.

Joy. I'm sure all of us who actually cared about the "real" answer are now suitably terrified of fucking up and looking anorexic.

Thanks guys

On a personal note, I think I'll try 16 minutes or so of HIIT on a couple of "off" days per week, about an hour to two hours after my first meal.

I'm an ecto, and my very hard try at a bulk got me from 128 to 155 pounds. At 5'6, and with a tiny bone structure like mine, that was a feat in and of itself. On even the *slight* possibility that pre-food cardio can cause muscle loss (catabolism) I simply have to avoid it. I'm not big and beefy, and I can't afford to lose anymore than the bare minimum.

So, thanks for the...erm. Histrionics.

If I were you I wouldn't do any cardio. Why bother?? You are trying to bulk up right? You shouldn't waist your energy on carido if you are that much of an ectomorph.