Is Ephedra Legal?

[cavtrooper96]

Most of you are correct. Most of the supplements/fatburners that contain ephedra use the whole plant or leaves and contain no alkaloids. It is the alkaloids that have been proven to burn fat whereas the normal ephedra has not. I have had no luck with any of the new ephedra fat burners.

Save your money and get some bronchaid from the drug store. It has ephedrine HCL and it works.

 

[MasterChemist]

How does it not address the actual problem?

Andro pause is your body not producing test any more.. testosterone supplements the actual end result but your body is still not producing it. There could be something wrong with the TPA or the actual tissues and glands atrophying which is usually the case and need to be addressed first before supplementation.

 

[MasterChemist]

That don't even make sense. He said it was illegal to sell and market it as a dietary supplement.

On 12 April 2004, the FDA issued a final rule banning the sale of ephedra-containing dietary supplements.

That does not make it illegal for other uses.

His original quote was
yes it is legal but it is "illegal" to market it for weight loss in the US.

My point is Ephedra containing alkaloids is banned as dietary supplement and never had been apporved as a drug in us.

Ephedrine HCL which is not a naturally occuring alkaloid of the palnt but sythetically made and chemically altered is a drug and has alway been a drug in the US.

So no it Ephedra with alkaloids in not legal in any formate. If you use ephedra with alkaloids and try to get around the law by labeling it a decongestant. The FDA would delcare that product an "Unapporved New Drug"

 

[Built]

Andro pause is your body not producing test any more.. testosterone supplements the actual end result but your body is still not producing it. There could be something wrong with the TPA or the actual tissues and glands atrophying which is usually the case and need to be addressed first before supplementation.

By the time your body isn't producing test, there is clearly something wrong. How often is it possible to set it right without HRT? And I mean REALLY right, not just restored to the bottom end of normal? Let me further clarify that I am not talking about post-cycle therapy here; the reason I ask is because my husband and I are both on HRT.

 

[MasterChemist]

HIS ability to articulate himself? You sound like Borat with downs.

Negged hard.

What are you in high school?? Grow up!

I am trying to clear though the BS and give you guys the real true info, an yet your desire for things to be the way you want them to be sets aside all reason.

Companies right now are playing on the fact that in this industry, people would like nothing more than for actual ephedra to be legal.... And it is not.

They entice you to buy products labled as ephedra with no alkaloids in it.... What is the point?

They sell a OTC Drug with out a licence and entice you to use it off label. Not even knowing the effects of the co decongestant that is blended with it. (I am speaking of US I am not sure what Canadas rules are.)

They rely on your ignorance and lack of education and through forums like this to spew BS from 14 year old high school student playing on a computer, and think it is funny.

Unknowing being a pawn in a larger scam played by people who don???t care if a product is safe or even if it work.

Grow up and wake up, your ignorance exposes you to a life time of working at chucky cheese.

 

[MasterChemist]

By the time your body isn't producing test, there is clearly something wrong. How often is it possible to set it right without HRT? And I mean REALLY right, not just restored to the bottom end of normal? Let me further clarify that I am not talking about post-cycle therapy here; the reason I ask is because my husband and I are both on HRT.

I agree that HRT helps people feel good and younger. But I was speaking of if people are having problems producing base hormone levels. That needs to be addressed through diet (which I can go into for ever about). If low test levels is found in conjuction with high estrogen in males that is a sure sign of to much sugar in diet.

The other thing that is usually good about HRT is people are usually more strict on a diet when taking this. But HRT remember is a program that supplemnts hormones which stimulate certain processes. Even PST is a supplementary thing.
test levels can get pretty high just form correction of diet and exersise and regulary taking teas that work on the TPA. But GH is another story, that is much harder since.

By the way I am not a fruit and nut health finatic. I am a real chemist who actually develops this type of stuff. Working mostly with supplements. But there are may constituatnts of herbs that are just a powerfull as drugs. The trick is making sure the herb is what it say it is. Most herbs dont have an identification method established for them so it is hard to find quality sources, and keep the quality up.

As far a diet.. A good diet computer program and sites helps alot for figuring out what you need. For instance, did you know it is very hard to get the levels of Zinc, Magnesium and Calcium in the diet, you need? With out these your body will not produce the hormones you need to keep up.
Along with Vitamin D.. Creatine, Arginine.. all not so easy to get in the diet, it can be done. And those computer programs help alot. Also nutritiondata at self.com is a great site to really break down a food and recipie.

 

[ZECH]

Yea steroids in the US... Not a good thing.. They are becomming more and more strict and lowering the dosage that is considered distribution... You can get them medically prescribed to you but your tet levels have to be pretty low, and if your test levels are low.. taking test does not address the actuall problem.. which is andropause.

LMAO. Don't even start to tell us you are an expert on steroids also, because it's evident from this post you're not.

 

[ZECH]

By the time a male's test levels get low mostly after age 40, there is no correction to correct this other than supplementing with exogenous test. Diet does shit.....

 

[MasterChemist]

yahh the guys an A-hole.
after the rest of his posts im not even mad, now he just looks like a dumbass that likes to use big words to make up for his short commings.
mehh w/e
negged

What big word am I using?? I think you, Vortit, and jmorrison. Need to go back to the sand box and let the grown up discuss this.

Negged..... Ha.. Ha... Haaaaaa!

 

[MasterChemist]

By the time a male's test levels get low mostly after age 40, there is no correction to correct this other than supplementing with exogenous test. Diet does shit.....

Not true, not in that case all males over 40 would have low test and they dont. There is also more to diet than just P,C,F.

 

[MasterChemist]

LMAO. Don't even start to tell us you are an expert on steroids also, because it's evident from this post you're not.

What by chance would make that evident??? Test does not correct the problem of low test.. It just supplements test... the problem usually lies in the TPA..

 

[MasterChemist]

Most of you are correct. Most of the supplements/fatburners that contain ephedra use the whole plant or leaves and contain no alkaloids. It is the alkaloids that have been proven to burn fat whereas the normal ephedra has not. I have had no luck with any of the new ephedra fat burners.

Save your money and get some bronchaid from the drug store. It has ephedrine HCL and it works.

You are absolutley correct and I assume that most people dont know that. My stance on this and what I have been trying to get out there is dont be fooled... its a scam about Ephedra...

Now Ephedrine HCL is totally differnt.

 

[vortrit]

 

[jmorrison]

What are you in high school?? Grow up!

I am trying to clear though the BS and give you guys the real true info, an yet your desire for things to be the way you want them to be sets aside all reason.

Companies right now are playing on the fact that in this industry, people would like nothing more than for actual ephedra to be legal.... And it is not.

They entice you to buy products labled as ephedra with no alkaloids in it.... What is the point?

They sell a OTC Drug with out a licence and entice you to use it off label. Not even knowing the effects of the co decongestant that is blended with it. (I am speaking of US I am not sure what Canadas rules are.)

They rely on your ignorance and lack of education and through forums like this to spew BS from 14 year old high school student playing on a computer, and think it is funny.

Unknowing being a pawn in a larger scam played by people who don???t care if a product is safe or even if it work.

Grow up and wake up, your ignorance exposes you to a life time of working at chucky cheese.

I just dont see your motivation for the thread. What ignorance are you talking about? What scam? What lack of education? I don't see what you are getting at.

I go to wally world and buy my ephedrine HCL (as a decongstant). I dont have a prescription, nor am I buying it from Larry the crack dealer outside. So if it is illegal, there are some slow feds around my house.

If ephedra the herbal compound is illegal...ok? You can still buy it from many sources.

I guess what I am asking is, what the hell is your point?

 

[vortrit]

What big word am I using?? I think you, Vortit, and jmorrison. Need to go back to the sand box and let the grown up discuss this.

Negged..... Ha.. Ha... Haaaaaa!

You truly are retarded, aren't you?

 

[MasterChemist]

I just dont see your motivation for the thread. What ignorance are you talking about? What scam? What lack of education? I don't see what you are getting at.

I go to wally world and buy my ephedrine HCL (as a decongstant). I dont have a prescription, nor am I buying it from Larry the crack dealer outside. So if it is illegal, there are some slow feds around my house.

If ephedra the herbal compound is illegal...ok? You can still buy it from many sources.

I guess what I am asking is, what the hell is your point?

The original question was is ephedra legal... I calrified. That was the point.

 

[MasterChemist]

The original question was is ephedra legal... I calrified. That was the point.

I unerstand you know about the Ephedrine HCL, but ephedrine HCL and Ephedra are two totally different subjects.

Ephedrine HCL has been an otc drug for many years.

It was the herb Ephedra that was poplularized not ephedrine HCL. And the reason it was so popular was becasue it was promoted as a natural supplemnt not a drug.

Proof for that is Ephedrine HCL was around for years before the Epehdra Diet Craze and it did not have any were near the sales. And it is around now with nowhere near the sales.

That is because the general consumer is less likely to take it as an OTC drug, and there was more freedom to market claims as a dietary supplement.

So the companies are still saying they are selling ephedra in the US and trying to recapitalize on that popularity.

And they are lying.

So it is very important to carify this to help the general public know what the scoop is. And boards like thsi come up when the general public searches for this question.

Even you guys on here who are obviously educated are confused as noted by posting.. it is legal.. it isnt... its legal.. but not as a deitary supplemnt... Here is the whole answer to the original question.

Is Ephedra legal?

Ephedra with alkaloids (the stuff that made it work) is illegal.

Ephedra with out alkaloids is a scam. And companies saying they have ephedra in it are being decietfull.

Ephedrine HCL is a OTC drug sold as a decongestant and has been sold that way for along time.

In the US (at least in Cali) many of the products that had ephedrine HCL in it were reformulated to either not contain it or lowered the dose. And you need to give your drivers licence to get it.

And there has been some debate that the guaifenesin that is required to be formulated with it in the U.S. might counter acter the actual fat burning effects. (that is another topic).

 

[ZECH]

Test does not correct the problem of low test.. It just supplements test... the problem usually lies in the TPA..

Please read my previous post.

 

[MasterChemist]

Please read my previous post.

This one
"By the time a male's test levels get low mostly after age 40, there is no correction to correct this other than supplementing with exogenous test. Diet does shit..... "

Is that the one you are talking about??

I responded to that already. I agree that supplementing test helps the people feel better and it is a quick solution. But with most people the problem is either in there TPA (which unless damaged) can be corrected through diet and exersise. It just takes alot longer than supplementing test. Most people dont realise that how much sugar they have taken in and over how long of a period. Sugar really negatively effects the TPA and casues test to have a higher covertion rate to est.

A decent low level of sugar is about 30-40 gr/day. Most people when added up are eating more line 100-200 gr/day. Also they eat it with out the fiber/prot and fat you need. Especially males. That is why you normally see a rise in type 2 diabetes/low test/and impotance all in the same age group.

Not to mention the low levels of EFA in diet. We are over fed and under nourished.

But that being said it is really hard to get all the nutrinets you need from food. I recently bought a computer diet program to track all nutrients in my diet, and even wiht the hlep of that is is hard to get a diet that give you low, sugar, high EFA, and the Calcium/Mag/Zinc/Vit D3/creatine/arginine etc and other nutrinets you need. You can do it but is is not easy. On top of that you need to estimate in your diet at least 200% of RDA not 100% due to cooking drops most nutirent levels by that much.

So you can do it through diet but you need a planing computer program, good sources of fresh food, and the will to prepare and eat 6 times a day. Also exersise.

I know this becasue I am in the proecess of doing it and making progress. I am also using lab tesing on blood and saliva to track results. BTW I am over 40 and it is working, slowly.. but it is.

 

[blergs.]

What are you in high school?? Grow up!

I am trying to clear though the BS and give you guys the real true info, an yet your desire for things to be the way you want them to be sets aside all reason.

Companies right now are playing on the fact that in this industry, people would like nothing more than for actual ephedra to be legal.... And it is not.

They entice you to buy products labled as ephedra with no alkaloids in it.... What is the point?

They sell a OTC Drug with out a licence and entice you to use it off label. Not even knowing the effects of the co decongestant that is blended with it. (I am speaking of US I am not sure what Canadas rules are.)

They rely on your ignorance and lack of education and through forums like this to spew BS from 14 year old high school student playing on a computer, and think it is funny.

Unknowing being a pawn in a larger scam played by people who don???t care if a product is safe or even if it work.

Grow up and wake up, your ignorance exposes you to a life time of working at chucky cheese.

?????? it some times is blended but its not needed the EPHEDRINE IS the decongestant.

you have your head so far up your ass you don't see just how stupid your really are. lol

 

[blergs.]

This one
"By the time a male's test levels get low mostly after age 40, there is no correction to correct this other than supplementing with exogenous test. Diet does shit..... "

Is that the one you are talking about??

I responded to that already. I agree that supplementing test helps the people feel better and it is a quick solution. But with most people the problem is either in there TPA (which unless damaged) can be corrected through diet and exersise. It just takes alot longer than supplementing test. Most people dont realise that how much sugar they have taken in and over how long of a period. Sugar really negatively effects the TPA and casues test to have a higher covertion rate to est.

A decent low level of sugar is about 30-40 gr/day. Most people when added up are eating more line 100-200 gr/day. Also they eat it with out the fiber/prot and fat you need. Especially males. That is why you normally see a rise in type 2 diabetes/low test/and impotance all in the same age group.

Not to mention the low levels of EFA in diet. We are over fed and under nourished.

But that being said it is really hard to get all the nutrinets you need from food. I recently bought a computer diet program to track all nutrients in my diet, and even wiht the hlep of that is is hard to get a diet that give you low, sugar, high EFA, and the Calcium/Mag/Zinc/Vit D3/creatine/arginine etc and other nutrinets you need. You can do it but is is not easy. On top of that you need to estimate in your diet at least 200% of RDA not 100% due to cooking drops most nutirent levels by that much.

So you can do it through diet but you need a planing computer program, good sources of fresh food, and the will to prepare and eat 6 times a day. Also exersise.

I know this becasue I am in the proecess of doing it and making progress. I am also using lab tesing on blood and saliva to track results. BTW I am over 40 and it is working, slowly.. but it is.

hahahahahaha

 

[blergs.]

LMAO. Don't even start to tell us you are an expert on steroids also, because it's evident from this post you're not.

I agree 1000%
this guy clearly knows everything.

 

[vortrit]

LMAO. Don't even start to tell us you are an expert on steroids also, because it's evident from this post you're not.

More likely a Massengill expert.

 

[ZECH]

This one
"By the time a male's test levels get low mostly after age 40, there is no correction to correct this other than supplementing with exogenous test. Diet does shit..... "

Is that the one you are talking about??

I responded to that already. I agree that supplementing test helps the people feel better and it is a quick solution. But with most people the problem is either in there TPA (which unless damaged) can be corrected through diet and exersise. It just takes alot longer than supplementing test. Most people dont realise that how much sugar they have taken in and over how long of a period. Sugar really negatively effects the TPA and casues test to have a higher covertion rate to est.

A decent low level of sugar is about 30-40 gr/day. Most people when added up are eating more line 100-200 gr/day. Also they eat it with out the fiber/prot and fat you need. Especially males. That is why you normally see a rise in type 2 diabetes/low test/and impotance all in the same age group.

Not to mention the low levels of EFA in diet. We are over fed and under nourished.

But that being said it is really hard to get all the nutrinets you need from food. I recently bought a computer diet program to track all nutrients in my diet, and even wiht the hlep of that is is hard to get a diet that give you low, sugar, high EFA, and the Calcium/Mag/Zinc/Vit D3/creatine/arginine etc and other nutrinets you need. You can do it but is is not easy. On top of that you need to estimate in your diet at least 200% of RDA not 100% due to cooking drops most nutirent levels by that much.

So you can do it through diet but you need a planing computer program, good sources of fresh food, and the will to prepare and eat 6 times a day. Also exersise.

I know this becasue I am in the proecess of doing it and making progress. I am also using lab tesing on blood and saliva to track results. BTW I am over 40 and it is working, slowly.. but it is.

Do you have studies to show that diet increases test levels?
Do you know where test production begins?

 

[MasterChemist]

Do you have studies to show that diet increases test levels?
Do you know where test production begins?

Just google test and diet an you will find a million... just from D-aspartate to zinc... even calcium has been linked.

But more important high sugar has been linked to low test high est..

and yes some adrenal but mostly the nuts, but that is just the production, you have to adddress the stimulation of production and then also keeping it high (not converting to est) once it is stimulated.

Its just like manufacturing supplement, you can have the most state of the are equipment in the world to manufacture supplements, but with out electricty, what good is it... with out a maintance program the machines eventually break down and... and with out quality starting materials the supplements wont work like they are supposed to.

Test production has less to do with the symptom of low test and more to do with other stuff. Most people can get healthy levels naturally.

Now if you want more than healthy levels than that is a whole different topic.

 

[Built]

Just google test and diet an you will find a million... just from D-aspartate to zinc... even calcium has been linked.

Those are only in cases of deficiency.

But more important high sugar has been linked to low test high est..

In insulin resistance and obesity, sure - adipose is the home of aromatase. In a deficit, or at maintenance in healthy leans? I don't think so.

and yes some adrenal but mostly the nuts, but that is just the production, you have to adddress the stimulation of production and then also keeping it high (not converting to est) once it is stimulated.

Its just like manufacturing supplement, you can have the most state of the are equipment in the world to manufacture supplements, but with out electricty, what good is it... with out a maintance program the machines eventually break down and... and with out quality starting materials the supplements wont work like they are supposed to.

Test production has less to do with the symptom of low test and more to do with other stuff. Most people can get healthy levels naturally.

Now if you want more than healthy levels than that is a whole different topic.

Define "healthy" levels.

 

[MasterChemist]

Those are only in cases of deficiency.

that is just my point most low test levels is casued by deficiancy not an actual problem, diet can correct it. But in the case of caclium, zinc, it would be very hard to get nutritionally adiquite levels in the diet with out milk products and lean red meat at a decent levels.

So unless someone is supplementing on a regular basis it will be low, along with Vit D3,

In insulin resistance and obesity, sure - adipose is the home of aromatase. In a deficit, or at maintenance in healthy leans? I don't think so.

you dont have to have insulin resistance for sugar in the diet to increase teh conversion of test to estrogen.. Even if you supplemnt test a high sugar diet will do that.

As we all know supressing aromatase with suicide inhibitors and others, sends, casues a wild rebound after words.


Define "healthy" levels.

healthy level would be a normal (more mid range no low end) to high range.

That level should be reached first then if you want to boost it up more supplemnt, but if you supplement you will atrophy your system during that time and will have to take another drug to bring that back to normal.. than another drug.. then another drug... Get my point.

 

[vortrit]

healthy level would be a normal (more mid range no low end) to high range.

That level should be reached first then if you want to boost it up more supplemnt, but if you supplement you will atrophy your system during that time and will have to take another drug to bring that back to normal.. than another drug.. then another drug... Get my point.

And eventually you will be addicted to crack.

 

[Built]

Low testosterone is SOMETIMES caused by nutrient deficiency. Mine was not. Neither was my husband's. In my case, I have chronically elevated levels of SHBG from oral contraceptive use in my thirties. This is known to permanently elevate SHBG, thus permanently lowering bioavailable test in women. In my husband's case, it was related to a congenital infertility problem. He had SOME test. Low normal, when he was younger. Then too low in his early forties.
How - in the absence of insulin resistance - will a high-sugar diet raise the conversion of testosterone to estrogen? Are you thinking of the effect of insulin on aromatase, or some other mechanism? How high are we talking here, and what kind of sugar - glucose? Fructose?
As an aside, I'm delighted to hear my current diet provides plenty of zinc and calcium. My health improved measurably since upping my consumption of animal proteins and fats.

healthy level would be a normal (more mid range no low end) to high range.

But that's kinda individual, isn't it? Plus you need to distinguish amongst free, bioavailable free and total test - and these can and do vary considerably when other factors are in place. For instance, hypothyroidism suppresses SHBG, meaning even a low test-level will show high bioavailable test. Is this optimal? Hardly. It has to be read in context.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on my other points - that is to say, the effect of nutrient supplementation when no nutrient deficiency is noted (ie taking zinc when there is no zinc deficiency), and why you feel it is important to eat six times a day.

 

[MasterChemist]

Low testosterone is SOMETIMES caused by nutrient deficiency. Mine was not. Neither was my husband's. In my case, I have chronically elevated levels of SHBG from oral contraceptive use in my thirties. This is known to permanently elevate SHBG, thus permanently lowering bioavailable test in women. In my husband's case, it was related to a congenital infertility problem. He had SOME test. Low normal, when he was younger. Then too low in his early forties.
How - in the absence of insulin resistance - will a high-sugar diet raise the conversion of testosterone to estrogen? Are you thinking of the effect of insulin on aromatase, or some other mechanism? How high are we talking here, and what kind of sugar - glucose? Fructose?
As an aside, I'm delighted to hear my current diet provides plenty of zinc and calcium. My health improved measurably since upping my consumption of animal proteins and fats.

But that's kinda individual, isn't it? Plus you need to distinguish amongst free, bioavailable free and total test - and these can and do vary considerably when other factors are in place. For instance, hypothyroidism suppresses SHBG, meaning even a low test-level will show high bioavailable test. Is this optimal? Hardly. It has to be read in context.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on my other points - that is to say, the effect of nutrient supplementation when no nutrient deficiency is noted (ie taking zinc when there is no zinc deficiency), and why you feel it is important to eat six times a day.

For zinc and minerals I go along the rule of thumb of 2 X RDA trying to get 1X RDA from diet then supplemnt rest. Cooking and such removes alot of minerals.
As far as effects as in performance effects and effects on hormones and such if the levels are normal. That usually involved specific forms of nutrients... not just say calcium citrate or such.

That sucks to here about your levels... With women its had to get decent levels of test at all.

And I am refering to free test.