is this strength drop off normal?

[nikegurl]

lately i've been pyramiding down on my sets because if i'm doing 4 sets my performance definitely declines so i figure better to hit my higher weights sooner.

my nutrition is good.

i'm resting about 45 seconds between sets (little less on arms maybe a full minute on legs)

here's what happened last night training chest (yes i'm a girl but posting here)

after warm up i did my heaviest set w/35 lb dumbells. i got 6 reps and it was a struggle. next set i dropped to 30 lbs and got 10 reps. i really feel the 5 lb difference.
set #3 still got 10. set #4 nearly killed me to get 8.

is this normal to drop off like that? should i continue to pyramid down or better to go up? thanks

 

[Robboe]

Why do you do 4 sets?

Do you do anything else for your chest?

And yes, muscles get weaker as they get fatigued. It's due to glycogen usage mainly. There's other factors too, like PCr and shit.

And how long do you wait between sets?

 

[nikegurl]

i do 4 sets flat, 4 sets incline and then 2 or 3 sets of a flye movement.

i only train chest once a week so i don't think (could be wrong) the volume is too much.

i'm resting about 45 seconds between sets. used to be 30 but just started to rest a bit longer.

 

[Arnold]

rest longer between sets.

 

[Robboe]

Yeah i agree. Wait about 3 minutes between compound movements, and wait like 30 seconds betwee your flye sets.

Incidentally, although about 10 sets is within the "low/moderate" volume bracket, i still think it's too many sets. You may find yourself better off doing 2 sets flat, 2 incline and 1-2 flyes. Just a thought...

 

[nikegurl]

why so few sets? just doesn't make sense to me to have such low volume. i'm only hitting chest once a week and my strength increases most workouts. just drops of quick within the workout.


never dreamed of resting so long! bet that will make a big difference.

 

[Robboe]

Yeah if it's working then stick with it.

How long have you been training for?

If it's under 8 months then you could still be making neural adaptations. Muscular too i bet tho.

I DO reckon a time will come when you'll have to reduce volume a tad.

 

[Arnold]

I do around 10 sets for chest, 2 exercises. Last work-out was decline presses and pec deck. 2 of those sets were really just warm-ups.

 

[nikegurl]

i had 3 years of hard training under my belt (so to speak) and then took off for a few years (i know - lame!)

i've been back at it for a year and half. i had been hitting bodyparts twice a week. just cut down to once back in january.

that seems to help actually. thanks! will start to rest more between sets.

 

[Scotty the Body]

I've never been a big fan of pyramiding down, I like going the other way and dropping reps as the weight goes up.
I've found it works much better for building strength.

 

[realdeal]

One of the main reasons why people stop losing weight, gaining muscle or in your case get weaker is because they dont switch up their routines.

If you have been doing the same routine for over 2 months and have'nt kept going up, then you need to switch your Exercices.

Also you can switch your type of training, whether it be drop set, pyramiding, forced reps etc... you have to experiment different methods of training. There is a specific type of training for your unique genetics. you just have to find it. In my off season i try 3-4 different kinds of methods and i write down what i gained from them in my own training journal. It works.

 

[Robboe]

She just said she's gaining strength with most workouts.

 

[nikegurl]

yep - still gaining strength most weeks. i changed the frequency of training back in january. as for the actual workout i rarely do the same thing twice. i will mix it up a lot - like doing supersets for shoulders. strip weight off the bar arms etc.

i just didn't know if something was "wrong" for my strength to drop off from set #2 to set #3. the overall session is improving but from one set to the next i seem to lose a lot.

i think i may just need to rest longer. thanks!

 

[ActionMatt]

I agree with Chigs.

30 seconds isn't nearly enough to rest if you're concerned about your strength levels.

 

[nikegurl]

yep - i have to stop treating it like cardio! i like to get in and out of the gym and i just tend to move quickly when i'm in there but i can't get the results i want without better/longer rests between sets. thanks everyone. i bet this will change things!

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Rest 3-5 minutes for maximum effort sets. 1-2 for others.

 

[brianinabq]

Originally posted by nikegurl
i had 3 years of hard training under my belt (so to speak) and then took off for a few years (i know - lame!)

i've been back at it for a year and half. i had been hitting bodyparts twice a week. just cut down to once back in january.

that seems to help actually. thanks! will start to rest more between sets.

If your not already taking it creatine might help.

 

[nikegurl]

funny timing. i'm expecting it to arrive in the mail today or tomorrow. (first time taking it)

tonight is night off from lifting. tomorrow is start of my bodypart cycle again. begins with chest.

i decided to try a new product called Creatine Clear. did lots of research on it first. it uses sodium transport system instead of carbs/sugar.

wonder how long it will take before i'll know if it helps?

 

[brianinabq]

Originally posted by nikegurl
funny timing. i'm expecting it to arrive in the mail today or tomorrow. (first time taking it)

tonight is night off from lifting. tomorrow is start of my bodypart cycle again. begins with chest.

i decided to try a new product called Creatine Clear. did lots of research on it first. it uses sodium transport system instead of carbs/sugar.

wonder how long it will take before i'll know if it helps?

Do you have to load with it? If not I should think you could tell a difference in strength right away. If you do have to load, it may take a few days into the loading cycle.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[nikegurl]

no loading. i'll keep let everyone know how it goes. i've heard very good things so i'm crossing my fingers.

 

[Scotty the Body]

Even if it tells you to load for the first 4 days, don't bother, just go with the normal dosage.
The loading phase is a way for you to go through the product faster and buy more. Your body will only take in so much anyway so all your gonna do is pee most of it out if your doubling the dose.

I notice a change in strength/endurance after the first week on creatine.

 

[Twin Peak]

Absolutely such a decrease during a workout is NORMAL. When people pyramid up in weight, they ARE NOT going to failure (this is not necessarily a bad thing).

Once you are fully warmed up, if you hit a set for failure, you will be weaker next set. This is good. Its normal. As long as you are increasing weight week by week -- enjoy it. 45 secs rest is a bit low but 3 min is very high except for powerlifters (plus it will take forever). The longer you wait b/t sets the stronger you will be, but you shouldn't be waiting too long. Keeping taking each set to failure and just pyramid down.

I have been training this way for years and its great...just make sure you are fully warmed up (I do b/t 2-4 warm ups before I go real heavy).

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
As long as you are increasing weight week by week -- enjoy it.

 

[Scotty the Body]

Originally posted by Twin Peak
Absolutely such a decrease during a workout is NORMAL. When people pyramid up in weight, they ARE NOT going to failure (this is not necessarily a bad thing).

What do you mean "When people pyramid up in weight, they ARE NOT going to failure"???

I do.

 

[Twin Peak]

Originally posted by Scotty the Body


What do you mean "When people pyramid up in weight, they ARE NOT going to failure"???

I do.

I knew this would get reactions....you may be the exception but generally if someone does say the following bench routine:

1) 225 x 10
2) 250 x 10
3) 275 x 10

By definition the first 2 sets are NOT to failure. If the second set increases weight but decreases reps then the first set MAY be to failure, but you CANNOT increase weight AND maintain or increase reps and be going to failure on each set. You could be doing this:

1) 225 x 12
2) 235 x 10
3) 245 x 8
4) 255 x 6

and have each set to failure, but if you did 255 first you'd probably get 9 or 10 reps. Also if you did this and you did 225 for set 2 you WOULD NOT (typically) get 12 reps the second time, if the first set was to failure.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Scotty the Body]

Yup, the second one is the one I do, increase weight and decreased reps.

I see what you ment now, thanks for the follow up.

 

[Twin Peak]

That was my old routine. For years I have been starting as heavy as possible and working back.

Example was yesterdays chest:

Incline Dumbells:

110 x 10
110 x 8
90 x 12

Flat Bench (shoulders hurting bad so you see the big drop):

275 x 10
225 x 12
225 x 10

Try this, it'll kick your ass I promise -- just warm up really well.

 

[Scotty the Body]

I remember reading something a long time back about dropping weight rather than increasing it durring the workout, basicly it told how your muscles remember the last weight you lifted so dropping weight could be bad for building strength.

True or not, thats why I preffer to pyramid up rather than down.

 

[nikegurl]

i've done both and liked both. this may be crazy (i never said i wasn't nuts) but i think i'm going to switch back to increasing the weight for two reasons. change is good AND i think it has to feel better mentally.

i know either way i'll take the sets to true failure. i know i'm done when the weight won't go. not when i think they might not go but when they actually don't.

thanks!