Isolating the whole chest...

[naturaltan]

with the thought that you can't shape/tone the chest muscle, is there any point to doing flyes of any sort?

 

[Quadsweep]

Prince:
I know that it is impossible to target the inner portion of the chest and so on...

What do you think about military presses? Do you think the military press will cause almost the same amount of hypertrophy in the sternal part of the chest (lower pec) as one can get with the flat bench press? I dont think so. If your answer is no, why the hell are incline presses and flat bench presses no different?

The clavicular part of the chest is among other things responsible for moving the upper arm upwards. As I see things the arms move upwards during an incline press and not during the flat bench press. What do you think of this? Why will this not affect the distribution of work among the heads of the Pec major?

And finally do you agree or disagree that exercises such as pullovers and front raises will hit the sternal and clavicular part of the chest respectively?

Regards

 

[shamund]

If im not mistaking, front raises don't target any part of the chest, but instead the front deltoid.....

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Quadsweep
Prince:
I know that it is impossible to target the inner portion of the chest and so on...

What do you think about military presses? Do you think the military press will cause almost the same amount of hypertrophy in the sternal part of the chest (lower pec) as one can get with the flat bench press? I dont think so. If your answer is no, why the hell are incline presses and flat bench presses no different?

If you read anything that I posted you would know that I think it's impossible to isolate any region of a single muscle, and that is what the pec major is. Yes, it fans across the entire area of the rib cage, but it has one single point of insertion on the humerous and it is not made up of "heads". And seeing that I buy into the scientific fact that a muscle grows as a whole, no I do not think that a military press, or any other movement for that matter, will have any direct effect on any one part of the pec major, upper, lower, whatever.

The clavicular part of the chest is among other things responsible for moving the upper arm upwards. As I see things the arms move upwards during an incline press and not during the flat bench press. What do you think of this? Why will this not affect the distribution of work among the heads of the Pec major?

I do not think any thing of it. See above.

And finally do you agree or disagree that exercises such as pullovers and front raises will hit the sternal and clavicular part of the chest respectively?

A front raise will hit your frontal deltoid, anything else involved would be synergistic. I also view a pull-over as a back exercise, not chest.

 

[Quadsweep]

Prince: thanks for the reply

A front raise will hit your frontal deltoid, anything else involved would be synergistic.

Whats wrong with being synergistic? The bench press will hit your pecs, and the shoulders will be involved synergistic (or vice versa). I am sure we all agree that both pecs and shoulders get plenty of work during a bench press regardless of being synergistic.

Whats your view on www.exrx.net? Is it non scientific?
I have read numerous books that claims that the clavicular head of pec major as well as the deltoid are responsible for flexing the shoulder. As you can see this is not the case with the sternal head of pec major as seen on exrx.net. Check out movements in the following links

Clavicular head of pec major

Sternal head of pec major

Now take a look at where the upper pec is attached. It is attached to the clavicle. I have one question for the audience You want to move the arm upwards. Where do you think it is best to pull from? From the clavicle or ribcage?

I am not finished yet

And seeing that I buy into the scientific fact that a muscle grows as a whole,

It is also a scientific fact that mechanical stress and stretch has an effect on muscle hypertrophy. Thats the reason why stiff-legged deads are better than leg curls regardless of EMG readings...

...And seeing that I buy into the scientific fact that a muscle grows as a whole...

Be carefull with statements like that. Maybe I am being a bit out of contekst here, but do you do rear laterals for the front delts?

I also view a pull-over as a back exercise, not chest.

I disagree with you. I think dumbell pullovers are a good stretch for the lats and nothing else. Dumbell pullovers are like doing partial reps for the lats. From a scientific point of view the pecs are the primemovers when arms are above parallel with ground when standing in upright position. When arms go below parallel to the ground the lats will be the primemovers. Ever heard of stiff-arm pulldowns for lats? They are done with arms slightly above parallel to ensure minimal involvement from the pecs.

I agree with you that machine pullovers with full range of motion are a back as well as a chest exercise


For your info I am an OL lifter as well as being a bodybuilder. I have only been pressing weights overhead for the last 3 years and have not been doing any bench pressing style movements in this period. I do militaries, dumbell presses, plate raises, push presses and so on. I dont think I could have gotten the same development of the upper pecs by doing flat bench presses. Prior to starting my career as an olympic lifter i had been flat benching for 5 years.

I plan to add chest dips to my current training regimen. I detest bench press

 

[Mudge]

My upper chest always looks better when prioritizing incline work. Other than that I do declines and the pec deck, no more flat pressing.

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Quadsweep
It is also a scientific fact that mechanical stress and stretch has an effect on muscle hypertrophy. Thats the reason why stiff-legged deads are better than leg curls regardless of EMG readings...

I really do not want to argue, I have debated this chest thing too many times now...

But I wanted to say that I disagree with your above statement. I do not believe that SLDLs are better than leg curls, this is mostly from my personal experience.