JFK's promise to keep Pope out of politics 'makes me want to throw up'

[min0 lee]

He should have choked on it....

GOPer says, 'I don't believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute.'


ABC News
GOP presidential hopeful Rick Santorum said today that watching John F. Kennedy's speech to the Baptist ministers in Houston in 1960 made him want to "throw up."
"To say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes you throw up. What kind of country do we live that says only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case?" Santorum said.
"That makes me throw up and it should make every American who is seen from the president, someone who is now trying to tell people of faith that you will do what the government says, we are going to impose our values on you, not that you can't come to the public square and argue against it, but now we're going to turn around and say we're going to impose our values from the government on people of faith, which of course is the next logical step when people of faith, at least according to John Kennedy, have no role in the public square," he said.
Santorum also said he does not believe in an America where the separation of church and state is "absolute."
"I don't believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute. The idea that the church can have no influence or no involvement in the operation of the state is absolutely antithetical to the objectives and vision of our country," said Santorum. "This is the First Amendment. The First Amendment says the free exercise of religion. That means bringing everybody, people of faith and no faith, into the public square. Kennedy for the first time articulated the vision saying, no, 'faith is not allowed in the public square. I will keep it separate.' Go on and read the speech 'I will have nothing to do with faith. I won't consult with people of faith.' It was an absolutist doctrine that was foreign at the time of 1960," he said.

 

[troubador]

Yuck, this has all kinds of semantic booby traps. Yeah I said booby.

I think Santorum sucks donkey dick but he's right that religion(formal definition) played some role in government since its founding. He's wrong if he meant that the founders wanted the church as an organization to have power ("influence") over the government.

You can avoid this problem all together by voting for Ron Paul.

 

[IronAddict]

Well what a coinkydink. Santorum and the rest of his cadre make me want to !

 

[oufinny]

Santorum needs to go away, he and Gingrich make the GOP look so retarded on almost all occasions.

 

[LAM]

You can avoid this problem all together by voting for Ron Paul.

one person can't do jack squat to change the direction the country is headed in. nothing changes even slightly until the private money is removed from US politics and the revolving door from ex-House members to big business is shutdown and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

one person didn't create the problem so one surely can't stop it. and the idea that the country can progress by going backwards, is simply the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in my life. most of RP's rhetoric is impractical and can not be accomplished in reality.

 

[troubador]

one person can't do jack squat

It'll save us from having to deal with the problem of Santorum's stance on faith in politics.

 

[LAM]

It'll save us from having to deal with the problem of Santorum's stance on faith in politics.

Santorum won't be setting foot in 1600 PA Ave but I agree and also apologize for my home state of PA for turning out many of these religious wack jobs on the far right that end up in US politics.

 

[Dark Geared God]

Santorum won't be setting foot in 1600 PA Ave but I agree and also apologize for my home state of PA for turning out many of these religious wack jobs on the far right that end up in US politics.

 

[hoyle21]

Santorum won't be setting foot in 1600 PA Ave but I agree and also apologize for my home state of PA for turning out many of these religious wack jobs on the far right that end up in US politics.

Isn't there a huge Quaker population in PA?

 

[troubador]

He kicked that guy so hard he turned white!

 

[Kimi]

 

[troubador]

Who are you, DGG's girlfriend??

If not, wanna grab a cup of coffee later?

 

[Big Smoothy]

"To say that people of faith have no role in the public square? You bet that makes you throw up. What kind of country do we live that says only people of non-faith can come into the public square and make their case?" Santorum said.

An outright lie by Santorum. JFK never said that. The Constitution doesn't say that.

And Texas has erased Thomas Jefferson from its public school history books.

 

[LAM]

Isn't there a huge Quaker population in PA?

sure is, I started out my primary education in a Quaker school called Friends Central in Philly. the Quakers, Amish and Pa Dutch are found in various parts in PA but in general more towards the central part of the state, especially the Amish. I never had much contact with them except on a couple of construction jobs way back in the day. If you ever want something built out of wood that will last forever, find some Amish guys.

 

[KelJu]

sure is, I started out my primary education in a Quaker school called Friends Central in Philly. the Quakers, Amish and Pa Dutch are found in various parts in PA but in general more towards the central part of the state, especially the Amish. I never had much contact with them except on a couple of construction jobs way back in the day. If you ever want something built out of wood that will last forever, find some Amish guys.

It's ironic considering the history of the Quakers. They started our very progressive and extremely liberal.

 

[LAM]

An outright lie by Santorum. JFK never said that. The Constitution doesn't say that.

And Texas has erased Thomas Jefferson from its public school history books.

many don't understand the true definition of "small government" that many on the far right have in reality. they want small government for the people and big government for the markets and BIG RELIGION. pretty much the foundation for extreme poverty and ever increasing inequality for the masses.

 

[troubador]

many don't understand the true definition of "small government" that many on the far right have in reality. they want small government for the people and big government for the markets and BIG RELIGION. pretty much the foundation for extreme poverty and ever increasing inequality for the masses.

That's true for many conservatives but it doesn't make sense to me to say these are far right beliefs; unless of course you're just trying to use the old tactic of portraying the opposition as radical. Far right (economically) is free market capitalism. Leftists want to pretend that doesn't exist and that the only alternative to their view is corporatism so they lump republicans, corporatism, capitalism, social conservatism,etc together. If you can change the meaning of the words you can change the outcome of the argument. I'm not saying the opposition doesn't do the same either but the only alternative view to LAM's is not the one he outlined above. I find the two axis political compass a much better way of describing political leanings. But maybe that defines the terms in way that suits me With that said, you are right that many republicans take that stance. I just don't think that is actually "far right".

 

[LAM]

Far right (economically) is free market capitalism. Leftists want to pretend that doesn't exist and that the only alternative to their view is corporatism so they lump republicans, corporatism, capitalism, social conservatism,etc together.

free markets at the international level don't exist in reality, not now and not ever. legislation just doesn't write itself, and in the US it's written by the lobbyists that represent the markets and company's that are paying them.

if you look at the markets and company's in the US that are the most profitable and have the highest market share in their respective sectors they are the exact same company's and industry's that spend the most money lobbying, it's a direct correlation.

government provides the infrastructure for the markets to even exist. an extreme of limited government would be Afghanistan as it's infrastructure is almost non-existent.

 

[LAM]

both Lincoln and Kennedy tried to either refuse money from international bankers or tie the US dollar to a precious metal, both killed. Saddam stopped using the USD as it's reserve currency, killed. Iran, dumped the dollar, placed on "Axis of Evil" list...Gahdafi, another US puppet horrible person but country not in debt tried to back his currency with gold and push it on the global market, killed...

the only country's in the world not in debt to international bankers are the ones that are communist, even Monaco has crazy debt...

 

[GearsMcGilf]

one person can't do jack squat to change the direction the country is headed in. nothing changes even slightly until the private money is removed from US politics and the revolving door from ex-House members to big business is shutdown and that's not going to happen anytime soon.

one person didn't create the problem so one surely can't stop it. and the idea that the country can progress by going backwards, is simply the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of in my life. most of RP's rhetoric is impractical and can not be accomplished in reality.

Wait a minute!!! Did LAM just say that George W. didn't cause the economic crisis?!?! Sounds like LAM is a closet conservative who probably has a Bush/Cheney sticker on his car! If JFK were running today, he wouldn't be a Democrat. The dems were far more conservative in his time.

As far as Rick Santorum, all I can say is God and Guns! Any candidate who's against birth control and abortion and isn't a gun grabber has my vote. I want a president who sits in the Oval Office with a Bible in one hand and the other hand on the button!

On a more seriouser note, we could avoid all this Bible thumping vs tree hugging bullshit by voting for RP. I know that most of his ideas would never come to fruition, but he's certainly not a typical, cookie-cutter empty suit like what we typically have. He's a far more pragmatic and frankly more intelligent than anything we've seen in decades. Think about all of Obama's dramatic campaign promises. How many have been accomplished?

 

[LAM]

personally I am extremely fiscally conservative but that is one of the key principles of obtaining wealth, you can't spend it. and when you start out young like that, it sticks with you through the lifespan. in the US i'm a liberal, everywhere else in the world people call me moderate.

sure RP has been singing the same song all these years but just about everything he says is mostly common sense when you look at world history. the House is responsible for legislation, not supposed to be the primary job of the POTUS. lots of things i don't agree with like how each state should be able to do it's own thing and a lack of continuity usually causes up with extremes. look at the sentencing guidelines in the criminal courts, etc.

it shouldn't seem like a time warp going from state to state in the same country and in many places it already does...

 

[min0 lee]

He kicked that guy so hard he turned white!

I said the same thing!

 

[troubador]

free markets at the international level don't exist in reality, not now and not ever.

I'm a citizen of one country. Of course free markets don't exist at the international level but I vote in a national political system where they can.

government provides the infrastructure for the markets to even exist. an extreme of limited government would be Afghanistan as it's infrastructure is almost non-existent.

Sure, Somalia has almost no government and that's a terrible place to live. That is the radical version of limited government. It's fine to recognize that. I don't know of anyone who actually supports that extreme view though. Libertarians in the U.S. are not wanting a Somalian type government, despite attempts using the tactic I mentioned before of portraying the opposition as radical.
Ron Paul has written and spoke about our poor infrastructure and how money that should be spent maintaining or rebuilding it is being wasted by politicians using socialized money for private gains(for obvious reasons). He supports wisely spending money on effective improvements in infrastructure. Improving infrastructure is one of his concerns.

 

[min0 lee]

An outright lie by Santorum. JFK never said that. The Constitution doesn't say that.

And Texas has erased Thomas Jefferson from its public school history books.

Why would they do that?

The Texas Board of Education has been meeting this week to revise its social studies curriculum. During the past three days, ???the board???s far-right faction wielded their power to shape lessons on the civil rights movement, the U.S. free enterprise system and hundreds of other topics???:

??? To avoid exposing students to ???transvestites, transsexuals and who knows what else,??? the Board struck the curriculum???s reference to ???sex and gender as social constructs.???

??? The Board removed Thomas Jefferson from the Texas curriculum, ???replacing him with religious right icon John Calvin.???

??? The Board refused to require that ???students learn that the Constitution prevents the U.S. government from promoting one religion over all others.???

??? The Board struck the word ???democratic??? from the description of the U.S. government, instead terming it a ???constitutional republic.???

 

[min0 lee]

Update

This just in!


Santorum Backs Away From JFK ???Throw Up??? Remark: ???I Wish I Had That Particular Line Back???

Rick Santorum backed away from his claim that President John F. Kennedy???s 1960 speech about the separation of church and state makes him want to ???throw up??? during an appearance on the Laura Ingraham radio show this morning. ???I wish I had that particular line back,??? Santorum told Ingraham, while insisting that the nation???s religious freedoms are being threatened by the Obama administration:

SANTORUM: [A]nd if you read President Kennedy???s text, while there were certainly some very important things and good things he said in that, there were some things that triggered in my opinion the privatization of faith and I think that???s a bad thing. I think we need to have a free exercise of religion in this country and it???s important for those First Amendment freedoms to be alive and well in America and I think they are threatened here in America as we???ve seen by President Obama, not by Rick Santorum.

Santorum has taken a lot of heat for mischaracterizing Kennedy???s statements and claiming, ???I don???t believe in an America where the separation between church and state is absolute.???
Asked about Santorum???s remarks during his press conference this morning, Mitt Romney said, ???I respect President Kennedy and his expression of his own views. And I felt that his speech was an indication of those views. My speech was an indication of views that were somewhat different. Religion certainly has a place in the public square.???
Indeed, rather trying to stomp religion out of public life, Kennedy sought to encourage Americans to abandon divisive religious rhetoric. ???I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end ??? where all men and all churches are treated equally ??? where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice ??? where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind ??? where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the law and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their work in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood,??? he said. ???I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me,??? Kennedy added.
A recent poll found that 67 percent of Americans believe that there is a clear separation of church and state, while only 28 percent disagree with the sentiment.

 

[min0 lee]

Call me crazy but at the rate these Muslims are growing imagine if they became the majority?
Would Christians still feel the same way about separation of church and state?

 

[LAM]

American's in general are very intolerant, as a religion Islam has not a prayer in the US.

I'm pretty sure that Islam is only growing because of the population growth in certain country's while inn predominately Christian nations like the US, UK, etc. the population of Anglo's, etc. is slowing.

 

[LAM]

I
Sure, Somalia has almost no government and that's a terrible place to live. That is the radical version of limited government. It's fine to recognize that. I don't know of anyone who actually supports that extreme view though. Libertarians in the U.S. are not wanting a Somalian type government, despite attempts using the tactic I mentioned before of portraying the opposition as radical.
Ron Paul has written and spoke about our poor infrastructure and how money that should be spent maintaining or rebuilding it is being wasted by politicians using socialized money for private gains(for obvious reasons). He supports wisely spending money on effective improvements in infrastructure. Improving infrastructure is one of his concerns.

the politicians serve the international markets in that aspect so when it comes to trade liberalization, etc. the benefits are far from uniform. especially when there are small firms competing with multinationals, etc. they just don't earn the revenue to be able to spend like the large firms and get the same "quality" of service from elected officials. stop the lobbyists and the game will balance out a little, very little.

the problem with the capital projects for infrastructure that we need to get busy on is there are no monies. not with decades of low overall national savings that started in the 80's and will continue to exist until wages are brought up and people have to stop debt based consumption. cumulative inflation since '1970 is 200%, this was caused by those at the top not at the bottom as they make the rules of the game. that comes out to an avg of 6.6% a year. just about nobody except for those in the top 20% are seeing wage increases anywhere near that in the US.

it is extremely difficult for both the individual and the country to escape the clutches of the debt trap once you are in it.

 

[squigader]

American's in general are very intolerant, as a religion Islam has not a prayer in the US.

I'm pretty sure that Islam is only growing because of the population growth in certain country's while inn predominately Christian nations like the US, UK, etc. the population of Anglo's, etc. is slowing.

This. There are only 2 Muslims in congress and both are African-Americans, neither are from the Middle East. Muslims have been in this country for a while, but they've only been catapulted into the public eye since the Al-Qaeda bombing, Afghanistan and Iraq.