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Leg Press Machine: replace w/ other exercise

Hardcore_Hank

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I've read the Leg press machines are far less good than other exercises.

SLDLs?

I have read that extensive use of the Leg Press focuses on more Quad development than hamstring, and it can be bad.

Should I drop the Leg Press Machine?

What should I replace it with?

I currently do legs in thise order

1. squats

2. Leg Xtension

3. Lunges

4. Leg Press on Machine

5. Calf raise stand and also seated.

6. Standing leg curl.
 
I would defenitly do SLDLs. it is extremly important to work the hamstirngs at not only the knee but the hip (since they cross both joints).

That looks like a lot of work on one day thouhg. How many sets and reps of each are you doing?
 
If we are going to be technical squats are the absolute worst on your knees with full ROM leg extensions coming in second. Of course I am just know finding that out after I jacked up my knees. Typically on a leg press you can raise your feet to focus more on the hamies.
 
Rauschgift said:
If we are going to be technical squats are the absolute worst on your knees
that statment is 100% incorrect...
 
Robert DiMaggio said:
hmmm...I wonder why squats are part of knee rehabilitation programs then? :scratch:
Squatting's value as part of the rehabilitation process for injured athletes has been unclear throughout the years. Let me clarify, deep knee bends (squats) put and enormous amount of strain on the knee cap, studies show upwards of 5x a persons body weight. If you are going to do squats you definitely do not want to go deeper than parralel. Although more recent studies are coming out showing that (especially when we get older) squats can cause more harm than good. Many rehab facilities are removing them or doing partial squats. As far as extensions are concerned again they are good as long as you do not exceed 90 degrees. I only know this because I have jacked up knees and have spent many hours with my orthopedic doctor. Some people are lucky though and don't have problems nor will they.
 
Squats blow away a leg press, moving your legs down on the plate to me is stupid and only bothers my knees. I am tall and heavy and have moderate issues with my knees from time to time, never with squats.
 
I had 2 knee surgeries before I ever set foot in the gym. When I joined a gym I told the trainer that I had a history of knee problems and couldn't/shouldn't squat. He told me I was wrong...and I listened.

I squat just below parallel and have found it has greatly IMPROVED my knees. Even after the surgeries I still had some joint stability issues and pain...but not since I started squatting.

I think proper form is very important with all exercises - maybe even more with squats. That being said...in my experience they were actually beneficial to my knees.
 
I've always heard that the deeper you go on squats, the less pressure you put on your knees actually. Is this info correct, or am I off?
 
I tore my acl years ago and never had surgery on it. I squat heavy and low I feel it has improved my knee. It never goes out on me anymore.
 
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BuzzU said:
I've always heard that the deeper you go on squats, the less pressure you put on your knees actually. Is this info correct, or am I off?
If you take a rubber band and stretch it is there more or less pressure?

I am glad that most of you have not had problems that's all we can hope for. :thumb:
 
actually some of us had problems that we no longer have since we started squatting. ;)

(no doubt everyone's different but let's not make the mistake of saying "squatting is bad for your knees" could be bad for some people i guess. but can definitely be helpful for many)
 
Again as I said these are recent studies.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Squatting increases knee arthritis risk: study [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Last Updated: 2004-04-05 14:03:36 -0400 (Reuters Health)

By Merritt McKinney

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Habitual squatting may increase the risk of developing knee osteoarthritis later in life, according to a new study.

The findings may help explain why elderly people in China are more likely to develop the condition than their peers in the U.S., researchers say.

Obesity increases the risk of osteoarthritis of the knee, but not everyone who develops knee arthritis is obese. Even though elderly people in China tend to be thinner than U.S. seniors, knee arthritis is as common in Chinese men and more common in Chinese women.

Since squatting is a traditional resting and working position in China, Dr. Yuqing Zhang of Boston University School of Medicine and colleagues examined the effect of squatting on the odds of developing knee arthritis.

The study included more than 1,800 Chinese people who were at least 60 years old. Besides undergoing a scan to detect osteoarthritis in the knee, participants were asked to remember how much they squatted at age 25.

People who reported squatting the most as young adults were most likely to develop knee arthritis in old age, Zhang's team reports in the journal Arthritis and Rheumatism.

"While several studies have found that occupational squatting increases the risk of knee osteoarthritis, this is the first study which showed that the prolonged squatting in daily living activities occurring at (an) early age is a strong risk factor for knee osteoarthritis," Zhang told Reuters Health.

This was true even in people who were thin, Zhang said.

Squatting was most strongly associated with an increased risk of a type of arthritis called tibiofemoral osteoarthritis -- erosion of the joint between the thigh bone and the shin bone.

Among Chinese men, those who reported squatting more than 3 hours a day were nearly twice as likely to have this type of arthritis than men who squatted for less than 30 minutes per day. The risk was increased by 70 percent in men who squatted 2 to 3 hours a day.

Squatting also increased the risk in women, especially in those who squatted for at least 3 hours a day.

The association between squatting and an increased risk of one type of knee arthritis may help explain differences in arthritis rates between elderly people in China and the U.S., according to the researchers.

When Zhang's team compared the Chinese study group with participants in a large U.S. study, they found that tibiofemoral arthritis was about 10 percent more common in Chinese women than in U.S. women. Chinese men, however, were less likely to have this type of arthritis than American men.

Although most people in the U.S. do not squat for extended periods of time, Zhang noted that squatting and kneeling are very common in daily activities, such as gardening and lifting. People need to be aware that squatting can generate harmful forces on the knee joint and may increase the risk of knee arthritis.

SOURCE: Arthritis & Rheumatism, April 2004.
[/font]​
 
Don't get me wrong I am not saying we should all stay in bed to avoid stress on our bodies. All I am saying is if you already have knee "issues" squatting may not be the best thing for you. I will leave it at that.
 
Rauschgift said:
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Among Chinese men, those who reported squatting more than 3 hours a day were nearly twice as likely to have this type of arthritis than men who squatted for less than 30 minutes per day. The risk was increased by 70 percent in men who squatted 2 to 3 hours a day.

Squatting also increased the risk in women, especially in those who squatted for at least 3 hours a day.
[/font]
I don't know about you, but I don't do squats for 3 hours every day. I do squats for no more than 20 minutes per week (3-6 sets in various forms). That comes nowhere near the threshold this study claims to be detrimental to one's knees.
 
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Habitual squatting may increase the risk of developing knee osteoarthritis later in life, according to a new study.


This is the exercise we are talking about here, not habitual squatting.
 
3 Hours :eek2: Who the hell COULD squat for three hours?
 
Rauschgift said:
Again as I said these are recent studies.

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Squatting increases knee arthritis risk: study [/font]​

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Last Updated: 2004-04-05 14:03:36 -0400 (Reuters Health)


By Merritt McKinney

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Habitual squatting may increase the risk of developing knee osteoarthritis later in life, according to a new study.

The findings may help explain why elderly people in China are more likely to develop the condition than their peers in the U.S., researchers say.

Obesity increases the risk of osteoarthritis of the knee, but not everyone who develops knee arthritis is obese. Even though elderly people in China tend to be thinner than U.S. seniors, knee arthritis is as common in Chinese men and more common in Chinese women.

Since squatting is a traditional resting and working position in China, Dr. Yuqing Zhang of Boston University School of Medicine and colleagues examined the effect of squatting on the odds of developing knee arthritis.

The study included more than 1,800 Chinese people who were at least 60 years old. Besides undergoing a scan to detect osteoarthritis in the knee, participants were asked to remember how much they squatted at age 25.

People who reported squatting the most as young adults were most likely to develop knee arthritis in old age, Zhang's team reports in the journal Arthritis and Rheumatism.

"While several studies have found that occupational squatting increases the risk of knee osteoarthritis, this is the first study which showed that the prolonged squatting in daily living activities occurring at (an) early age is a strong risk factor for knee osteoarthritis," Zhang told Reuters Health.

This was true even in people who were thin, Zhang said.

Squatting was most strongly associated with an increased risk of a type of arthritis called tibiofemoral osteoarthritis -- erosion of the joint between the thigh bone and the shin bone.

Among Chinese men, those who reported squatting more than 3 hours a day were nearly twice as likely to have this type of arthritis than men who squatted for less than 30 minutes per day. The risk was increased by 70 percent in men who squatted 2 to 3 hours a day.

Squatting also increased the risk in women, especially in those who squatted for at least 3 hours a day.

The association between squatting and an increased risk of one type of knee arthritis may help explain differences in arthritis rates between elderly people in China and the U.S., according to the researchers.

When Zhang's team compared the Chinese study group with participants in a large U.S. study, they found that tibiofemoral arthritis was about 10 percent more common in Chinese women than in U.S. women. Chinese men, however, were less likely to have this type of arthritis than American men.

Although most people in the U.S. do not squat for extended periods of time, Zhang noted that squatting and kneeling are very common in daily activities, such as gardening and lifting. People need to be aware that squatting can generate harmful forces on the knee joint and may increase the risk of knee arthritis.

SOURCE: Arthritis & Rheumatism, April 2004.
[/font]
where in that study does it mention anything about athletes ? athletes are not normal, average people...
 
LAM said:
where in that study does it mention anything about athletes ? athletes are not normal, average people...
Clearly you are not getting my point. My point is that squatting in general puts an enormous amount of pressure on the knee, when you add weight it obviously increases that pressure. You are living in a fantasy world if you think that squatting with heavy weights is somehow good for the knee. The study is nearly pointing out the fact that mearly squatting without weight has a degenerative affect on the knees. So, if you already have "issues" with your knees the last thing you want to be doing is squatting. Now granted that is probably contrary to most of our goals which is some form of bodybuilding. You just have to weigh the pros and cons and make your own decision. And you are right athletes are not normal average people they need to be even more careful.
 
Rauschgift said:
So, if you already have "issues" with your knees the last thing you want to be doing is squatting.
not in my experience - as i said...i had 2 knee surgeries before i ever set foot in a gym or near a squat rack. years after the surgery i still had occassional pain and 1 knee would "slide out". after squatting - no more knee pain. no more sliding out. so for me - squatting helped after nothing else did.

sounds like jodi had a similar experience.
 
Sure did. I didn't even go through the surgery. The doctors insisted I had the surgery but I stay away from the slice and dice table as much as I can. I no longer have ANY issues with my knees since I strengthened my legs by squatting.
 
It is widely known that physiotherapists use squats to STRENGTHEN the knee joint. Lots of people talk about how deadlifts are detrimental to your lower back too, when obviously it does nothing BUT STRENGTHEN your lower back.

In fact I can find you studies that suggest that the leg press puts even MORE stress on your knees than a squat, and in fact places you in a highly unnatural position.

I hate machines. Free weights with a natural ROM is the only way to go for functional strength and freedom from injury. Anyone who disagrees is a tool. Haha.

Peace.
 
Rauschgift said:
Clearly you are not getting my point. My point is that squatting in general puts an enormous amount of pressure on the knee, when you add weight it obviously increases that pressure. You are living in a fantasy world if you think that squatting with heavy weights is somehow good for the knee. The study is nearly pointing out the fact that mearly squatting without weight has a degenerative affect on the knees. So, if you already have "issues" with your knees the last thing you want to be doing is squatting. Now granted that is probably contrary to most of our goals which is some form of bodybuilding. You just have to weigh the pros and cons and make your own decision. And you are right athletes are not normal average people they need to be even more careful.
it's plain and simple...you are not comparing apples to apples. the knee and surrounding tendons, ligaments and cartiledge of a highly trained athlete is not at the same level of strength and conditioning of that of a "normal" sedentary individual...
 
Jodi said:
3 Hours :eek2: Who the hell COULD squat for three hours?
I used to see, and still see, people just squat, with their as* nearly to the grass.

They just sit like that and smoke a cigarrette, and watch the traffic.

No thanks, I'll pass.
 
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