Low carb diet question

[bobt57]

Hi everyone, Bob T here, fairly new to the forum, not many posts, but have a low carb diet while exercising question.

First a bit of background.

In my 20's and 30's I was a pretty regular gym rat, 4 days a week, plus plenty of other activity, I looked like a football player, a little padding but obviously worked out, 15yrs of no activity and eating too too much brings us to today.

Now I am 54 yrs old, about 370 with about 42% bodyfat, terrible I know, pls dont beat me up.

I just finished up my first week at a local cardio gym call Ferrels Extreme Bodyshaping, 6 days per week 45 - 60 minute work out per day, all cardio, boxing, kick boxing, with bags, and resistance training with bands, for 10 weeks, pretty intense.

They recommend a specialized 1500 calorie per day, 6 meal per day diet, believe it or not, that is the tough part for me. I have lost lots of weight on very low carb diets in the past and find it’s the easiest diet for me to stick to long term.

My question is, can I survive for 10 weeks, lose fat, retain or even build muscle on a restricted carb diet? I am taking two protein shakes a day and too many quality supplements to mention here along with my low carb diet, I can eat about 4 to 5 times a day, but not much more than that, a piece of lean meat about the size of the palm of my hand and a small handful of mixed vegetables makes up each meal.

Feed back or suggestions from this very experienced group would be appreciated.

Thanks very much
Bob T

 

[Arra]

Depends on how low you're willing to go on carbs. If you go into fullblown ketosis you'll lose minimal muscle.

What is your maintenance? 1500 calories is obviously nowhere near your maintenance as far as I can tell.

You can build muscle on a low carb diet, but it's a good idea to refeed if you're wanting to bulk on a low carb diet to up leptin and lower ghrelin.

 

[bobt57]

Arra,

Maintenance on a 370 lb body would be huge doing the math, my goal is to survive the 10 week program, lose fat while trying to preserve as much of the muscle I have worked so hard for.

I know from personal experience that reducing carbs to ketosis levels which is my plan makes me feel week and tired at first, also the trainers at Ferrels has said I will need the carbs and calories to survive the 10 week training program, this is where I somewhat disagree with them.

 

[Built]

Okay, props for getting yourself out of this rut.

That being said, the way you're doing it couldn't be more unpleasant. Cardio is easily the worst way to try to drop fat, especially for someone who is as overfat and out of shape as you are. And six meals a day is a horrible way to try to diet while doing this - you'll be hungry all the time. There are far easier and more effective ways to do this.

My personal suggestion would be to read homework 1 in my sig and get out of your ten week contract. If you can't do this, at least read homework 1 and switch to three meals a day, whatever way you can manage hunger. This could be low or modest carb, but I'd lean very heavily on the protein.

How tall are you?

 

[Arra]

Eating 1500 calories is a huge deficit for a man your size, I would be afraid of rebound after reaching your desired weight.

If you get enough fat, you won't need the carbs, I myself have done HIIT while low carbing.

How long do you have until it starts? The induction flu is the only problem I see for your performance to really be hindered.

Edit- Built, take it from here.

 

[Built]

They recommend a specialized 1500 calorie per day, 6 meal per day diet,

I can't believe how many asshats still recommend this for cutting. There's no rationale for it whatsoever. Google the following search terms:

meal frequency 1997

I have lost lots of weight on very low carb diets in the past and find it’s the easiest diet for me to stick to long term.

Me too. Way easier on appetite.

My question is, can I survive for 10 weeks, lose fat, retain or even build muscle on a restricted carb diet?

While doing boot-camp on 1500 calories, low carb or their recommendation: Survive and lose fat? Yes, if you don't mind being miserably hungry and feeling overtrained.

Retain muscle? At your bodyfat level - no problem, on virtually any plan you will follow for ten weeks. Beyond ten weeks, if you stick to it and continue to drop weight - no. You'll start losing muscle pretty quick.

Gain muscle? On an extreme deficit, while doing boot camp with excessive iron cardio and no heavy strength training? No.

 

[bobt57]

Built, thanks but I already started and there are no refunds, I think I can and will stick it out, knowing that the new habit of working out regularly is just what I need, I will read homework 1 and let you know if I have any questions.

Arra, I am 5ft 10in tall. And I hate the induction flu, never heard it called that, especially unpleasant in the middle of a high intensity kick boxing session, fortunately, I get past that phase pretty quickly.

Eating 3 to 4 times a day sounds more reasonable, and I snack enough to keep the hunger pains away.

My personal goals for the 10 weeks are 1) new exercise habit, 2) weight loss 3) I will have to feel better at the end than I do now, anyone who is 175lbs overwieight feels like shit all of the time.

 

[Built]

I've been 170 lbs and I'm a 5'7" female, believe me I remember how that felt. I was about 40% bodyfat at that weight.

Don't snack. Eat three or at most four times a day, and don't snack at all. Eat as much of your food at each meal as you possibly can rather than spreading it out across the meals AND snacks. You'll feel fuller.

Did you find the research article I pointed you toward?

 

[bobt57]

My plan is, as I get in better shape (maybe after my second 10 week session), to drop down to about 3 to 4 days a week on the cardio and go back to weight lifting 3 to 4 days a week, I will work out a balance to make sure I give my muscles time to heal.

Should I be adding a t booster of some kind too to help with the recovery?

 

[Built]

Who told you you were 42% bodyfat btw? How was this assessed?

If you're 42% bodyfat, you're carrying 215 lbs of lean mass. At 5'10" with a goal weight of 175, you'll have to lose over 50 lbs of muscle along with the fat. Why would you want to do this?

 

[Built]

My plan is, as I get in better shape (maybe after my second 10 week session), to drop down to about 3 to 4 days a week on the cardio and go back to weight lifting 3 to 4 days a week, I will work out a balance to make sure I give my muscles time to heal.

Should I be adding a t booster of some kind too to help with the recovery?

Anything that actually boosts testosterone is a steroid, and at your current level of bodyfat, you'll aromatize too much of it into estrogen (aromatase enzyme resides in adipose tissue, which is why obese men are at higher risk of prostate cancer - prostate cancer is an estrogen-sensitive cancer. Obese women are at higher risk of breast cancer for the same reason. So are obese men for that matter.)

A low dose of a prescription aromatase inhibitor could help. That would be all I'd look into for now.

 

[bobt57]

Built, I will read that, thanks, as far as eating goes, I have learned the hard way that eating smaller amounts of food makes me feel better, if I eat the amount of food I want to eat, I feel drained and out of energy, if I eat small amounts of food, I feel better, and my snacks are low or zero carb snacks, I snack so I dont feel deprived or hungry.

 

[Built]

Keep yourself comfortable, that's the bottom line. I did the small meals thing for years - I've recently switched to large ones and I'll never go back, but it's really all about you and YOUR comfort. Just keep it in mind, in your back pocket as it were, in case you run into problems with hunger and want to try it another way.

At the risk of pimping product I have not tried, this might help you if you can't get your doctor to prescribe an aromatase inhibitor.

 

[bobt57]

Built, the fat percentage came from this hand held thing Ferrals used to test my body fat, the 200 lb weight goal is one I set for myself, because when I was at that weight in my 30's, I felt good, wore 32 x 32 in pants, a 3x shirt, maybe that weight isn't ideal today, but I figured I would adjust as i dropped more fat.

And thanks for the advise on the t, my doctor wont even test me for estrogen, I have read that it is probably sky high for a guy in my shape, so my focus should be estrogen reduction and aromatase inhibitors? Any product recommendations?

 

[bobt57]

oh, and the goal was to lose 175, more or less

 

[Built]

BIA devices are so inaccurate, they're really useless.

If your 200-lb weight goal (sorry I mis-read that earlier) puts you at 15% bodyfat, you'll carry 170 lbs lean mass at that point. (my husband is 5'11" and at age 45, carries about that).

I highly doubt you carry 215 lbs lean mass now. You probably carry more than 170 lbs of lean simply because you will have gained muscle to carry your body around. How about we split the difference and call it 190? If this is true, you'll be at a healthy bodyfat level at anything below 220. If we're wrong, we'll re-adjust when you get there. Sound good?

 

[bobt57]

and your link sends me to an infractions page, pm me if you want to give me some private recommendations

 

[bobt57]

sounds good built, i really appreciate your advice, its a huge change in direction for me, but the alternative is heart disease, diabetes and .... well we don't need to go there

 

[Built]

Which link?

 

[bobt57]

this one:

At the risk of pimping product I have not tried, this might help you if you can't get your doctor to prescribe an aromatase inhibitor.

 

[Built]

That's odd. It opens fine for me.

Try this: IronMagazine Bodybuilding Forums - Announcements in Forum :

 

[bobt57]

that worked, thank you, question, i have an appointment with my doctor next week, he signed a release to let me join Ferrals, should I push him for an estrogen test and treatment or do I just assume its a problem and treat it myself, american doctors really suck when it comes to "augmented" fitness goals.

 

[Built]

I don't know what Ferrals is.

 

[bobt57]

i should have left that out of my question, should i be pressuring my doctor for estrogen testing and treatment or try to do something about it myself

 

[Built]

Print this article and highlight this section on page 3, and ask him for a trial of anastrozole. Check with the guys for dosing; I think it's half a mg eod but please check.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2664380/pdf/nihms96140.pdf
Not all the men had infertility caused by hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism
secondary to obesity, but interestingly all the men responded to treatment with aromatase inhibitors with improved sperm analyses, increased serum testosterone levels and decreased serum estradiol levels.