Maxing out on isolations?

[PushAndPull]

I max on compounds every 1-2 months.
I very rarely ever max on isolations. I curretly have no idea what my max curl, french press, calves ect.. is.
Is that bad?
Do you max on isolations/compounds? Frequency?

 

[Marat]

Part of training is enjoying what you are doing. You can max out your isolations once in awhile if you are particularly inclined, but I wouldn't really recommend it.

I also wouldn't recommend maxing out your compounds as often as you are either. Maxing out (both primary and accessory movements) is very taxing on you CNS and you wouldn't want to hinder your performance for the remainder of the month by giving your CNS a beating all the time.

Maxing two or three times a year on your 'primary exercise - 1RM' would be prudent for the sake of measuring progress in absolute strength, but I wouldn't bother maxing out on your accessory work.

I personally don't care about how much one can curl, but to each his own.

 

[PushAndPull]

Thanks for the response.
I was thinking maxing on compounds every few months could be overkill, think i'll swith to a compound every 2 months so that maxing out on all the coumpounds takes a total of 8 months.

 

[ALBOB]

The question I'd as is, why are you maxing out on ANYTHING? What purpose does it serve? Are you preparing for a power lifting competition? If so yeah, go ahead and train for max lifts by doing them on occasion. But if you're not a competitive lifter, I'd say the only thing you're accomplishing is damaging your joints and increasing your likelyhood of injury.

Yeah, you need to mix up your repetition scheme occasionally with higher reps and lower reps but, MAX lifts? Just not seeing the point.

 

[Marat]

^ I was just about to get to that. I agree with Albob. During strength specific training, maxing a couple times a year is necessary in order to readjust percentages for dynamic training purposes. However, for training directed towards most other goals, maxing out doesn't serve a purpose outside of dealing with your curiosity.

 

[ectomorph141]

I cant even tell you my max with any of my workouts. I think the last time I tried to "max out" on something was in high school for a charity event and that was about 14 years ago.

On occasion I do stack on extra weight for some really intense low 2-3 rep sets. But I truly have no idea what my "max" is with anything.

 

[PushAndPull]

I hear what you guys are saying, especially about increasing your chance for injury. One of the reasons I don't max on any isolations is because of the increased chance of injury. Of course you can still get injured maxing on compound movements, but they're far more natural movements and so I figure if I keep good form and don't try anything too crazy, i'll be alright. I actually think maxing out is fun, but that's me.

 

[ALBOB]

I hear what you guys are saying, especially about increasing your chance for injury. One of the reasons I don't max on any isolations is because of the increased chance of injury. Of course you can still get injured maxing on compound movements, but they're far more natural movements and so I figure if I keep good form and don't try anything too crazy, i'll be alright. I actually think maxing out is fun, but that's me.

Let me back up a bit. I hear you on the fun. Being able to move two and three times more weight than the average schmo in the gym is a trip and a Hell of an ego boost. I know, I used to be there so don't think I'm an hardcore opponent to doing it. BUT, you have to use them EXTREMELY judiciously and like you said, 100% strict form.

That being said, I'm gonna correct something you said. Bending your elbow as if you're doing a curl is just as much of a natural movement as squatting down and then standing back up. Just because something is a "natrual movement" doesn't make it any safer than anything else, especially when you start loading hundreds of pounds on top of yourself while doing it. I say that only so you don't get an unwarrented sense of security/complacency when doing those movements. The two worst injuries I've had while lifting have been doing compound movements and both happened while doing NON-max sets. Don't EVER get complacent!

 

[KelJu]

Yeah, you need to mix up your repetition scheme occasionally with higher reps and lower reps but, MAX lifts? Just not seeing the point.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Why max out if you aren't training for power lifting events? Sounds dangerous and counter productive.

 

[PushAndPull]

That being said, I'm gonna correct something you said. Bending your elbow as if you're doing a curl is just as much of a natural movement as squatting down and then standing back up. Just because something is a "natrual movement" doesn't make it any safer than anything else, especially when you start loading hundreds of pounds on top of yourself while doing it. I say that only so you don't get an unwarrented sense of security/complacency when doing those movements. The two worst injuries I've had while lifting have been doing compound movements and both happened while doing NON-max sets. Don't EVER get complacent!

Good advice.
Although it is fun, I do take it very serious and know injury is possible, but like you said that's possible regardless if you're maxing or not so I always try to have the best form possible when lifting. If I have a bad day where i'm feeling lazy and unfocused, that's when I take the day off and do some leg curls.

 

[Merkaba]

Max=Ego

 

[Gazhole]

Rarely go below 3 reps anymore for main lifts. Pushing the weight up is one thing, you can still get stronger doing that, but doing 1RM lifts too frequently is like playing russian roulette 7 nights a week - you're gonna get hurt eventually.

One of the best ways to get stronger is to lift below your maximum. Most powerlifting programs only call for max lifting in and around competition dates - you're probably maxing out a lot more than even they care to do it. Most of the year they are training way below that range.

 

[PushAndPull]

Gaz
You think maxing out on one compound every 2 months is still too much?
What would you recommend?

 

[Gazhole]

Twice a year or something, for 1RMs anyway.

For 3's and 5's you can usually get away with once every 3 months.

I've just finished a spat of record attempts and PRs and things. Won't be trying to push the weights up on anything for a while now, i doubt. Feeling slightly overtrained tbh, and got a slight injury, so i've pretty much cut full deads and squats out for a little while.

 

[PushAndPull]

Thanks Gaz.
I usually do a heavy set that I can only do between 3-5 reps every other month, depending on the exercise. I think i'll spread them out every few months as well.
That is what you meant by 3's and 5's, correct?

 

[sprayherup]

I like to max out on my smith machine lunges every other week.

 

[Gazhole]

Thanks Gaz.
I usually do a heavy set that I can only do between 3-5 reps every other month, depending on the exercise. I think i'll spread them out every few months as well.
That is what you meant by 3's and 5's, correct?

Yeah, like going for records on a set of 3 or 5 reps.

Honestly a lot of it depends on how you feel. Lately i've felt great, and really pushed myself and made PRs every week or so - but im only recently getting to my true max. I've obviously gotten stronger, and doing PR attempts at weights i thought would be maximal effort, but weren't.

After a few weeks of this i hit my actual maxes, and could tell this was the case because they were absolute gut busting sets, and i've subsequently gotten very tired latelty, haha .


Only do a max set:

If you haven't done one in the last few months - to avoid over-training and injury.

If you think you can improve on your old max - because if you can't, there's no point stressing your body that much.

If you feel absolutely 100% perfect condition - if you go into it tired, ill, fatigued from previous training, or not with it mentally you'll just waste it.


This goes for singles, 3's, and 5's i think. So planning your training cycles, taking extra rest before and after a PR attempt, and keeping an eye on your condition are all really helpful tools in deciding when you should max out, and on what exercise.

Once you hit that maximum poundage, start your next cycle light and work back up to it.

 

[PushAndPull]

Great advice, thanks man.

 

[Gazhole]

Great advice, thanks man.

No problems.

I love maxing out too, when im lifting big weights i feel invincible like a fucking god or something, but injuries and overtraining in the past have assured me that this isnt the case .

Reading this thread and giving you advice has actually made me realise i could probably do with a week off because i have all the symptoms i just described. Im knackered, have been maxing out lately, and my head is getting further away from the gym each session.

So thank you too, haha.

 

[Phineas]

No problems.

I love maxing out too, when im lifting big weights i feel invincible like a fucking god or something, but injuries and overtraining in the past have assured me that this isnt the case .

Reading this thread and giving you advice has actually made me realise i could probably do with a week off because i have all the symptoms i just described. Im knackered, have been maxing out lately, and my head is getting further away from the gym each session.

So thank you too, haha.

Gaz, out of curiosity, what kind of rep ranges are you usually working in?

 

[Phineas]

When I was only a few months into lifting I maxed on smith calf raises and bench dips, haha. What a dumbass.

 

[Gazhole]

When I was only a few months into lifting I maxed on smith calf raises and bench dips, haha. What a dumbass.

Ouch! That didn't end well, did it?

 

[ALBOB]

Everything Gazhole has said has been right on, I'm only gonna add an example to emphasize what he's already said.

Professional power lifters don't even do max sets that often. They each have their own off-season rep range but they're VERY rarely less than 6-8 reps per set. And even those sets are limited in each workout.

The only time reps get lower than that is as they're building up toward a specific competition. A month out they may take one or two sets down into the four rep range. A couple of weeks out they may take one or two sets down into the two rep range. The reason for this is to slowly get their bodies used to doing thow massive singles. And it's for the sole purpose of winning a competition. Singles, doubles and even quads don't really build that much strength if done exclusively. You have to mix them in SPARINGLY with a well balanced program.

 

[Gazhole]

Gaz, out of curiosity, what kind of rep ranges are you usually working in?

For most things usually around about 3-4x5, pyramid style so starting light working up to heavy. For legs usually 3x10-15 straight sets.

If I'm using tempo anywhere from 1-5 sets of 6-8, sometimes pyramid sometimes not. When im training grip its most often 3-4 sets of singles or holds for time.

Though sometimes, like last week, i was doing partial movements and i did 10 singles, or 4x10.

Lots of variety there, but i like to keep it interesting, lol. 3x5 pyramids is the most common, though.

 

[Gazhole]

Everything Gazhole has said has been right on, I'm only gonna add an example to emphasize what he's already said.

Professional power lifters don't even do max sets that often. They each have their own off-season rep range but they're VERY rarely less than 6-8 reps per set. And even those sets are limited in each workout.

The only time reps get lower than that is as they're building up toward a specific competition. A month out they may take one or two sets down into the four rep range. A couple of weeks out they may take one or two sets down into the two rep range. The reason for this is to slowly get their bodies used to doing thow massive singles. And it's for the sole purpose of winning a competition. Singles, doubles and even quads don't really build that much strength if done exclusively. You have to mix them in SPARINGLY with a well balanced program.

Exactly this.

I always think of singles as being a test of what you HAVE built, rather than the way to build it.

I'm only really doing 4-5 work sets in a typical session, the other sets are warm-ups. Can't max out and go super-heavy every session, not in any rep range.

 

[Hoglander]

If you like tracking strength there are a number of calculators that attempt to calculate your one rep max based on a given rep range and it's set to failure. You can test your 1 rep max against the calculator periodically to test it's accuracy for you as an individual. In other words you don't have to 1 rep max to know what your max lift is, give or take a few pounds.

Here is one that works for me. It works on more than just bench for me based on testing I've preformed, as I've suggested above. http://www.criticalbench.com/chart.htm

 

[Phineas]

For most things usually around about 3-4x5, pyramid style so starting light working up to heavy. For legs usually 3x10-15 straight sets.

If I'm using tempo anywhere from 1-5 sets of 6-8, sometimes pyramid sometimes not. When im training grip its most often 3-4 sets of singles or holds for time.

Though sometimes, like last week, i was doing partial movements and i did 10 singles, or 4x10.

Lots of variety there, but i like to keep it interesting, lol. 3x5 pyramids is the most common, though.

So, you dont follow a single rep range for an entire week or session?

 

[Phineas]

Ouch! That didn't end well, did it?

Actually, the bench dips SHOULD HAVE been fine, but I asked some little 14 year old for a spot (was the biggest person there at the time, lol). I had four 45s on my lap and asked him to just keep his hands on the side to keep them from sliding. Of course, he completely helps me on the way up after I had done about 75% of the lift perfectly. So, I tell him let's do it again but don't help me. Of course, on the way I up my triceps (which had then done 1 3/4 max lift lol) failed and I told him to take the plates off..thinking he'd do 2 or 3 at once (it's easy to grab plates that way) but he grabbed one and rather than picking it up he slid it across -- knocking two of the remaining three sideways and hanging. Of course, the remaining 3 plates came crashing down to the floor with a crash that put lunk alarms to (even more) shame.

 

[PushAndPull]

Actually, the bench dips SHOULD HAVE been fine, but I asked some little 14 year old for a spot (was the biggest person there at the time, lol). I had four 45s on my lap and asked him to just keep his hands on the side to keep them from sliding. Of course, he completely helps me on the way up after I had done about 75% of the lift perfectly. So, I tell him let's do it again but don't help me. Of course, on the way I up my triceps (which had then done 1 3/4 max lift lol) failed and I told him to take the plates off..thinking he'd do 2 or 3 at once (it's easy to grab plates that way) but he grabbed one and rather than picking it up he slid it across -- knocking two of the remaining three sideways and hanging. Of course, the remaining 3 plates came crashing down to the floor with a crash that put lunk alarms to (even more) shame.

See if i'm reading this correctly.
After only a few months of lifting, you did 75% of a 180lb weighted dip with the plates on your lap?

 

[Gazhole]

So, you dont follow a single rep range for an entire week or session?

Not usually, since i do fullbody most of time i don't want to use rep ranges which make no sense for particular body parts/exercises. 3x5 may be fine for overhead press, but i don't find doing 3x5 squats really gets me anywhere. Similarly, doing 4x10 like i would do for squats on a single arm press would take too far too long.