My sad deadlift diatribe

[IRON MAN]

Just to add to the topic of which muscles are stimulated most during a deadlift, you have to consider the center of gravity that you are lifting through during a deadlift. It is shifted forward a lot relative to a squat, so torque on the hip joint is increased and torque on the knee joint is decreased. Therefore, the emphasis moves away from your knee extensors (Quadriceps) and is shifted more toward your hip extensors (Glutes, hamstrings). So, even if you sit down real low at the beginning of the deadlift, there is still going to be additional recruitment of the hip extensors relative to a squat.

Also, I'm referring to an Olympic style squat with the bar sitting high on your traps and a more upright stance as opposed to a PL squat performed with a wider stance and additional forward lean.

Yes!! It's very similar to SLDL'S in terms of torquing the hams-lower back-glutes and very similar to squats in terms of placing emphasis on the quads-hamstrings-lower back and glutes..

But I do not feel "DEADLIFTS" are no where near as effective as "ROWS" in terms of building "Lat Thickness"? Do you???

I do believe this movement is a great asset for powerlifters and athletes wanting to build overall physical strength. Also for those lucky individuals who are flexible enough to do deadlifts and not develop a back injury, this compound movement obviously involves multiple muscle groups at one time. But due to the lower back inuries I have witnessed with this exercise, I will only be pushing it for POWERLIFTERS who's focus is on overall strength as opposed to sheer muscle mass. I will push safer exercises such as weighted back extensions and hyper-extensions for working the lower back and leg curls and parallel squats for the hams/quads.

Note: This solves alot of problems with setting up a training split for bodybuilders not wanting to over-train the lower back and CNS.

 

[P-funk]

Yes!! It's very similar to SLDL'S in terms of torquing the hams-lower back-glutes and very similar to squats in terms of placing emphasis on the quads-hamstrings-lower back and glutes..

What the heck are you reffering to? what are you talking about?

But I do not feel "DEADLIFTS" are no where near as effective as "ROWS" in terms of building "Lat Thickness"? Do you???

I do believe this movement is a great asset for powerlifters and athletes wanting to build overall physical strength. Also for those lucky individuals who are flexible enough to do deadlifts and not develop a back injury, this compound movement obviously involves multiple muscle groups at one time. But due to the lower back inuries I have witnessed with this exercise, I will only be pushing it for POWERLIFTERS who's focus is on overall strength as opposed to sheer muscle mass. I will push safer exercises such as weighted back extensions and hyper-extensions for working the lower back and leg curls for the hamstrings.

weighted back extensions, as in the actual machine, are the worst thing for your back! (a) you are starting from the bottom position and attempting to apply force without an eccentric contraction and preparation for the load you are concnetrically contracting against and (b) the set up of the machine is such that it is difficult to get into a good/safe position. Way more dangerous then a deadlift

How are hyperextensions any different then deadlifts? the trunk angle is the same and there are a few ways in which you can use the hyperextension bench:

1) hips locked and held statically/lumbar works dynamically
2) lowered pad, hips unlocked, hips work dynamically/thoracic works statically
3) lowered pad, hips unlocked, hips work dynamically/thoracic works dynamically (round back training)

None of these are vastly different then things you do when you deadlift save for #3 which you wouldn't want to do with heavy loads.

Note: This solves alot of problems with setting up a training split for bodybuilders not wanting to over-train the lower back and CNS.

How does a deadlift overtrain your lower back and CNS anymore then a back squat?

 

[IRON MAN]

What the heck are you reffering to? what are you talking about?



weighted back extensions, as in the actual machine, are the worst thing for your back! (a) you are starting from the bottom position and attempting to apply force without an eccentric contraction and preparation for the load you are concnetrically contracting against and (b) the set up of the machine is such that it is difficult to get into a good/safe position. Way more dangerous then a deadlift

How are hyperextensions any different then deadlifts? the trunk angle is the same and there are a few ways in which you can use the hyperextension bench:

1) hips locked and held statically/lumbar works dynamically
2) lowered pad, hips unlocked, hips work dynamically/thoracic works statically
3) lowered pad, hips unlocked, hips work dynamically/thoracic works dynamically (round back training)

None of these are vastly different then things you do when you deadlift save for #3 which you wouldn't want to do with heavy loads.




How does a deadlift overtrain your lower back and CNS anymore then a back squat?

1. I was just making reference to the fact that Deadlifts primarily work the same muscle groups as the Squats and still-legged deadlits. Because the deadlift is a compound movement that places most not all but most of it's emphasis on the quadriceps, hamstrings, gluteus maximus, and the muscles in the lower back. The remaining muscles are involved in Stability Control just as the traps are a stabilizer in the over-head press. So the areas that garner the most benefit from the deadlift are the hams, hips, thighs, buttocks, lower back, and to some extent, the trapezius, latissimus dorsi, abs, and forearms.


2. I also agree that the back extensions on a machine is far worse than deadlifts and it must be avoided at all cost!!! I'm referring to the back extension exercise that physical therapist hand out to people who are experiencing back problems. It was pro bodybuilder "Corrina Everson" who taught me the value of this lower back strengthening exercise.

3. Hyper-extensions are not my favorite pick but I feel the odds of accidently rounding the back and or causing injury is less likely than with the deadlift. Again I have seen disk ruptures with deadlifts by those who knew proper exercise form and they make me nervous as a personal trainer. I only offer hyper-extensions to clients who have neck trouble and cannot do back extension on the floor. Some with back problems do better with no direct back or abs work at all!!! The back extension movement I am talking about is the antagonist movement to the crunch.

4. Combining Deadlifts and Squats in the same training program places a great demand on the CNS. Back extensions isolate the lower back and produce very little strain on the CNS. Thus allwowing more energy to be spent on more effective upper back exercises such as pull-ups and Rows. In addition, the deadlift can be a bad exercise to use when trying to work around an injury such as a hurt shoulder, but back extension can generally be used year round.

Note: Again do not be surprised when you see me pushing deadlifts for powerlifting but on the same token I will continue to encourgage bodybuilders to use back extensions for lower back work.

 

[P-funk]

4. Combining Deadlifts and Squats in the same training program places a great demand on the CNS. Back extensions isolate the lower back and produce very little strain on the CNS. Thus allwowing more energy to be spent on more effective upper back exercises such as pull-ups and Rows. In addition, the deadlift can be a bad exercise to use when trying to work around an injury such as a hurt shoulder, but back extension can generally be used year round.

how do you then propose that one works their posterior chain properly to balance out their loer body musculature. The difference between the amount of tension created in squats and hyperextensions is so great that people are always going to have over powering quads which can be a dangerous thing for the knee joint. How do you expect people to combat this problem?

 

[CowPimp]

But I do not feel "DEADLIFTS" are no where near as effective as "ROWS" in terms of building "Lat Thickness"? Do you???

I can't tell what you're asking. Your usage of double negatives make me think you worded that wrong. So, let me say that I feel deadlifts certainly promote growth in your scapular retractors (Traps, lats, rhomboids). Whether or not the level of growth they stimulate will be greater than or equal to rowing movements I have no idea, and I don't think most people here can say definitively one way or the other either.

1. I was just making reference to the fact that Deadlifts primarily work the same muscle groups as the Squats and still-legged deadlits. Because the deadlift is a compound movement that places most not all but most of it's emphasis on the quadriceps, hamstrings, gluteus maximus, and the muscles in the lower back. The remaining muscles are involved in Stability Control just as the traps are a stabilizer in the over-head press. So the areas that garner the most benefit from the deadlift are the hams, hips, thighs, buttocks, lower back, and to some extent, the trapezius, latissimus dorsi, abs, and forearms.

I think it's a little nonsensical to assume that a movement has to be isotonic in nature to optimally promote growth and strength gains. Also, the traps rotate the scapula upward at the top of an overhead press, so they do more than stabilize during that movement.

3. Hyper-extensions are not my favorite pick but I feel the odds of accidently rounding the back and or causing injury is less likely than with the deadlift. Again I have seen disk ruptures with deadlifts by those who knew proper exercise form and they make me nervous as a personal trainer. I only offer hyper-extensions to clients who have neck trouble and cannot do back extension on the floor. Some with back problems do better with no direct back or abs work at all!!! The back extension movement I am talking about is the antagonist movement to the crunch.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but I generally see more people rounding their backs when doing hyperextensions compared to deadlifts. It's intuitive to flex your spine at the bottom of a hyperextension, and it's somewhat inuitive to keep a neutral spine when you deadlift.

4. Combining Deadlifts and Squats in the same training program places a great demand on the CNS. Back extensions isolate the lower back and produce very little strain on the CNS. Thus allwowing more energy to be spent on more effective upper back exercises such as pull-ups and Rows. In addition, the deadlift can be a bad exercise to use when trying to work around an injury such as a hurt shoulder, but back extension can generally be used year round.

So alternate between squats and deadlifts or perform them on different days. You can manage CNS fatigue just fine if you structure your program properly, even with demanding exercises like that coupled together. Hell, I do them on the same day quite often. I just make sure I alter the other training variables frequently and deload as necessary. My genetics and recovery abilities are sucky to average.

 

[gopro]

Deadlifts should, and need to be done by serious trainees and those looking for a strong, injury free back. Deadlifts are by far the best back exercises when done with proper mechanics. There is no replacement for this exercise as it brings into play more muscles than just about any other exercise. Extension exercises are ok, but they ONLY WORK THE BACK EXTENSORS...nothing more! Deadlifts incorporate and strengthen approximately 30-35 different muscles, many of which are the deeper groups that actually support the discs of the spine.

Yes it is true that if not done properly they CAN cause injury. However, it is not likely that it would be a herniation, or anything of that nature. This is because discs are made stronger by surrounding fibers called "sharpies fibers," that from a matrix of criss cross pattern that stabilize the disc. The effects of this pattern make the disc STRONGER than bone. Basically, if you push straight down with powerful force on a bone and disc, the bone will shatter before the disc does.

When it comes to herniations, it is lumbar flexion coupled with rotation that is the common culprit. This position actually unloads the discs and fibers and causes a release of the support therefore causing herniations.

Anyway...do your deadlifts, but do them right!

 

[gopro]

I do weighted decline situps with DB's (in the 5-10 rep range, so far anywhere from 35-50lbs)... Would you suggest replacing this with another weighted ab exercise (if so, what?), or is it fine?

The basic weighted crunch, swiss ball crunch, or cable crunch would be better. That said, you still can do weighted decline sit ups now and again. Just don't use them as your only ab exercise. Also, make sure to stretch the hip flexors after doing them. You do not want tight hip flexors.

 

[shiznit2169]

I'm just curious, how do you actually know if you have a herniated disk?

 

[fufu]

I'm just curious, how do you actually know if you have a herniated disk?

MRI I think. Or possibly an X-ray?

 

[gopro]

I'm just curious, how do you actually know if you have a herniated disk?

You need an MRI, which can detect soft tissue injury. I had an X-ray and it only looked like a compressed disc, then the MRI revealed a herniation.

 

[IRON MAN]

I'm just curious, how do you actually know if you have a herniated disk?

Usually pain or numbness in the lower extremeties is a sign of a herniated disk.


Keep in mind I have read documentation where the disk themselves degenerate over a period of time from excessive workloads loads such as when doing heavy deadlifts.

The disk itself has nerves located within and once it degenerates there can be pretty severe random pain down either leg and in the disk itself. With that being said you do not have to RUPTURE a disk to create a Chronic Back Problem. I THINK ALOT OF PEOPLE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!

Note: Once you hurt a disk you'll never be the same regardless how strong your back muscle may be. Now if you gentlemen are like me, your not going to risk anything that can put a damper on your sex life and back problems will so that in short order!!! :

 

[kr1s1]

I incorporate regular deads and straight legged deads in my workouts, Ive only had slight twinges from perhaps not warming up fully or slip of form. I agree with the guys who say genetics play a part, if you dead lift for years like me and have had no issues why not carry on, if you pick an injury up and are smart enough to admit deads arnt the best exercise for you then find an altenative.
I know a guy who cant shoulder press due to genetics and he has wicked front delts, he simply uses alternative exercises to target the fdelts....easy

 

[IRON MAN]

I incorporate regular deads and straight legged deads in my workouts, Ive only had slight twinges from perhaps not warming up fully or slip of form. I agree with the guys who say genetics play a part, if you dead lift for years like me and have had no issues why not carry on, if you pick an injury up and are smart enough to admit deads arnt the best exercise for you then find an altenative.
I know a guy who cant shoulder press due to genetics and he has wicked front delts, he simply uses alternative exercises to target the fdelts....easy

I agree that the common sense approach is best. But I do not necessarily agree that genetics and the use of good form is the end-all to not being injured. For example, many all of a sudden develop shoulder injuries from doing bench presses and or over-head presses regardless of gentics or the form they use. On the same note some have developed permanent damage to their lower backs with deadlifts. A severe shoulder injury might put you out of training but a severely damaged lower back can put you out of work on a permanent basis and that's something to think about.

 

[P-funk]

Keep in mind I have read documentation where the disk themselves degenerate over a period of time from excessive workloads loads such as when doing heavy deadlifts.

Did you know that it is documented proof that people in america have more back pain then woman in africa who labor all day, carrying large buckets of water from the river to their homes on top of their heads?

Do you know why this is?

it is because america has bread a chair based society. Sitting all day leads to many more problems with the lumbar spine then getting to the gym and actually doing something about it. Building muscle, strengthening stabalizers and actively preparing for everyday movement. People bend over to pick shit up all day...boxes, bags, children, etc......how is any of this different then a deadlift (except for the load being lifted).

If you are ruling out deadlifts for this reason, then you need to rule out squats too because they place just as much (maybe more) compressive force on the spine. Overhead presses!.....lots of compressive force there too.

the problem isn't that people go out and exercise...it is that THEY DON'T GO OUT AND EXERCISE. they need to get out and do this stuff.

Obviously, hitting limit attempts is not for everyone.

How do we make the exercise safer when we are doing reps since being in a prone position, lifting weight from the floor and being fatigued (as you are in the later reps of a set) IS DANGEROUS! Simple.....we do cluster sets. You want to do 3 sets of 10 reps on the deadlift. Do all 10 reps with 10-20sec. in between each rep in order to focus on proper pulling form, good rep execution and limit fatigue, when pulling in this dangerous position.


You still never answered my question about hamstring/glute strengthening exercises to balance out squatting and quad strength.



To add to this, world class strength coach, Mike Boyle, told me that he doesn't have any of his athletes deadlift or back squat because he doesn't want to put that much force on their back since they are so strong (most of his athletes are hockey players). So what do they do.....the front squat and they do single leg DB deadlifts. the front squat is quad dominant and the single leg deadlift takes a lot of load off the back since you can't use that much weight. I wouldn't go as far to drop squatting and deadlifting out of my routine but it has certainly worked for him and the athletes he trains.

 

[IRON MAN]

Lol That's good to know man. I mainly feel deadlifts in my lower back,hipes,glutes,hams,and then quads. I don't at all feel my traps in the movement.

My personal experience with deadlifts is when I start bumping my shins
during the movement, it's because I'm starting the lift with my lower back,
instead of my "Upper Legs" and "Glutes". Starting the lift with the legs,
naturally straightens them up and gets the shins out of the way as the bar travels up.

Proper deadlift form is to start bent kneed, then begin the lift by
flexing the upper leg area ( quads, hams, glutes ). Continue through
mid-lift with the primary mover being the glutes at this juncture. And then about three
quarters into it, bring in the lower back muscles.

Note: Finish off with a nice flex of the upper back and traps!!!

 

[IRON MAN]

Did you know that it is documented proof that people in america have more back pain then woman in africa who labor all day, carrying large buckets of water from the river to their homes on top of their heads?

Do you know why this is?

it is because america has bread a chair based society. Sitting all day leads to many more problems with the lumbar spine then getting to the gym and actually doing something about it. Building muscle, strengthening stabalizers and actively preparing for everyday movement. People bend over to pick shit up all day...boxes, bags, children, etc......how is any of this different then a deadlift (except for the load being lifted).

If you are ruling out deadlifts for this reason, then you need to rule out squats too because they place just as much (maybe more) compressive force on the spine. Overhead presses!.....lots of compressive force there too.

the problem isn't that people go out and exercise...it is that THEY DON'T GO OUT AND EXERCISE. they need to get out and do this stuff.

Obviously, hitting limit attempts is not for everyone.

How do we make the exercise safer when we are doing reps since being in a prone position, lifting weight from the floor and being fatigued (as you are in the later reps of a set) IS DANGEROUS! Simple.....we do cluster sets. You want to do 3 sets of 10 reps on the deadlift. Do all 10 reps with 10-20sec. in between each rep in order to focus on proper pulling form, good rep execution and limit fatigue, when pulling in this dangerous position.


You still never answered my question about hamstring/glute strengthening exercises to balance out squatting and quad strength.



To add to this, world class strength coach, Mike Boyle, told me that he doesn't have any of his athletes deadlift or back squat because he doesn't want to put that much force on their back since they are so strong (most of his athletes are hockey players). So what do they do.....the front squat and they do single leg DB deadlifts. the front squat is quad dominant and the single leg deadlift takes a lot of load off the back since you can't use that much weight. I wouldn't go as far to drop squatting and deadlifting out of my routine but it has certainly worked for him and the athletes he trains.

Apparently world class strength coach Mike Boyle has seen some back injuries from doing heavy deadlifts as have I, but doesn't his theory debunk GO-PROS.'

Note: GO-PRO is stating that heavy deadlifts like those performed in the Johnny Jackson video actually help not hurt the back as Mike Boyle claims. But I would agree with GO-PRO on the fact that regular deadlifts are safer because a single legged deadlift would put the spine in a very vulnerable position because of the twisting motion.

In regards to everyday lifting, most aren't lifting to failure like Johnny Jackson does in his video and the weight loads are much lighter. However, theres been multiple back injuries by people who move furniture for a living. As with deadlifts some get by with it while others end up crippled. And yes they are taught how to lift with the legs while keeping their backs arched.

I was not avoiding your question. I'll go back and answer it.

 

[IRON MAN]

Ok, well, P-Funk and Cowpimp already did my job for me...and remarkably well I might add...so all I can do now is

I'm not quite finished with you..

 

[CowPimp]

My personal experience with deadlifts is when I start bumping my shins
during the movement, it's because I'm starting the lift with my lower back,
instead of my "Upper Legs" and "Glutes". Starting the lift with the legs,
naturally straightens them up and gets the shins out of the way as the bar travels up.

Proper deadlift form is to start bent kneed, then begin the lift by
flexing the upper leg area ( quads, hams, glutes ). Continue through
mid-lift with the primary mover being the glutes at this juncture. And then about three
quarters into it, bring in the lower back muscles.

Note: Finish off with a nice flex of the upper back and traps!!!

You're not starting the lift with your lower back. Your lower back extends the spine, not the hips. If the bar is rubbing your shins that just means you have better posture; your lower back is holding your spine in position nicely. If you start to lean forward or round your back you will drift away, which not only potentially compromsies the safety of the lift to some degree (Although you can certainly maintain a neutral spine and merely be very close to your shins), but decreases your leverage.

 

[gopro]

Apparently world class strength coach Mike Boyle has seen some back injuries from doing heavy deadlifts as have I, but doesn't his theory debunk GO-PROS.'

Note: GO-PRO is stating that heavy deadlifts like those performed in the Johnny Jackson video actually help not hurt the back as Mike Boyle claims. But I would agree with GO-PRO on the fact that regular deadlifts are safer because a single legged deadlift would put the spine in a very vulnerable position because of the twisting motion.

In regards to everyday lifting, most aren't lifting to failure like Johnny Jackson does in his video and the weight loads are much lighter. However, theres been multiple back injuries by people who move furniture for a living. As with deadlifts some get by with it while others end up crippled. And yes they are taught how to lift with the legs while keeping their backs arched.

I was not avoiding your question. I'll go back and answer it.

No, I am not stating that about Johnny's approach to deadlifts. I feel he is too ballistic in his lifting style. Actually, on most exercises his form sucks. The only time I mentioned Johnny is in the obvious effect that heavy deadlifts have had on his back. I can GUARENTEE you that his back would look nothing like it does if he just did rows and back extensions.

 

[gopro]

Usually pain or numbness in the lower extremeties is a sign of a herniated disk.


Keep in mind I have read documentation where the disk themselves degenerate over a period of time from excessive workloads loads such as when doing heavy deadlifts.

The disk itself has nerves located within and once it degenerates there can be pretty severe random pain down either leg and in the disk itself. With that being said you do not have to RUPTURE a disk to create a Chronic Back Problem. I THINK ALOT OF PEOPLE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!

Note: Once you hurt a disk you'll never be the same regardless how strong your back muscle may be. Now if you gentlemen are like me, your not going to risk anything that can put a damper on your sex life and back problems will so that in short order!!! :

Yes, discs degenerate over time...and I would venture to guess that 99% of lifters on this site that have been training seriously for more than 10 years have at least a minor herniation, most likely at L5/S1. However, most do not feel it, especially if the entire core is trained properly...and deadlifts is one of the keys to this.

Last year I ended up in bed for 8 full weeks because of a disc herniation that became full blown sciatica. After looking at my MRI my doc said it looked as if I had been in a major car accident. However, he already new that this problem literally came out of nowhere. He explained that I probably had the herniation for many years but never felt it because of my core strength holding everything in place (so to speak).

When he asked me if anything in my program had changed over the last few months (before the pain began), I told him that only one thing I was doing was different...........I STOPPED DEADLIFTING!!

Bingo!

 

[gopro]

You want to stay injury free, you must do lifts that mimic what we do in everyday life. We must not only thing in terms of the muscles we can see, but those that lie deep. Functional lifting builds strong, functional bodies. There must be a balance of strength between the muscles that move us, and those that stabilize us. The only way to do this is to deadlift, overhead press, squat, lunge, twist, row, etc. I call this 3-dimensional lifting. We do not live life attached to machines, but in a 3-dimensional environment, that requires strength, balance, and stabilization all at once.

Of course, all of the above is moot if proper technique is not used. When poor technique is used, you can get hurt from deadlifting or doing reverse wrist curls.

That said, if you use training to build true functional strength from head to toe, you can get away with many more "physical mishaps" in life that would otherwise cause major problems.

 

[IRON MAN]

how do you then propose that one works their posterior chain properly to balance out their loer body musculature. The difference between the amount of tension created in squats and hyperextensions is so great that people are always going to have over powering quads which can be a dangerous thing for the knee joint. How do you expect people to combat this problem?

1. If one of my clients begins to experience knee pain from squats I have them do 2 light sets of leg extensions and 3 sets of leg curls to strengthen the typically weaker parts of the leg. I also make sure their knees do not drift out over their toes. I also make sure they push with their legs, not with their back. I encourage them to use a lighter weight if need be inorder to maintain proper form, and try to keep the back as upright as they can while maintaining the natural arch.

Note:The women I train often have to lean forward a bit more. I make sure they do not round their upper back as they ascend.

2. I give the exact same advice for deadlifts. The drive should be coming from the legs, hips, and glutes not the lower back. The back should be as straight as possible with the natural arch remaining in the lower back but not necessarily upright. At the top of the repetition I have them squeeze their hips and glutes in a sort of pelvic tilt to drive the hips forward. As the hips come forward, the back straightens on its own. Like COWPIMP I have them use light weights utill they get used to the movement. I've noticed when the weight is too heavy people tend to lift with their back too much. GO-PRO pointed out this very thing about Johnny Jackson who is a back injury waiting to happen!!!

Note: For powerlifters with a weak back I add in some extra lower back work and cut back on their squats and deadlifts for a little while until their weak link catches up. I use slow controlled weighted behind the head back extensions first and hyperextensions second. Also I make sure their abs are strong by incorporating weighted crunches and reverse crunches. A strong core-(abdominals and lower back) is one of the best preventive measure against injury along with flexibility.

So for weak kness it's "Leg Extensions" and "Leg Curls." A weak back get "Back Extensions and Crunches."

Does that answer your question or did I miss the boat?

 

[IRON MAN]

You're not starting the lift with your lower back. Your lower back extends the spine, not the hips. If the bar is rubbing your shins that just means you have better posture; your lower back is holding your spine in position nicely. If you start to lean forward or round your back you will drift away, which not only potentially compromsies the safety of the lift to some degree (Although you can certainly maintain a neutral spine and merely be very close to your shins), but decreases your leverage.

You are correct... What I was trying to get across is I have gotten out of position in the past when the bar hit my shins. I "Over-Compensated" with my back to allow the bar to travel outward/upward, thus, rounding out my back. Hitting the shins can get you hurt!!!

 

[Brutus_G]

I have another question referring to the spine. Lol yes i know another one,but please help me on this. When i squat,dead lift,or do heavy shrugs after I've done the exercise my back seems to...decompress(almost expanding back up..) it doesn't hurt and I'm sure my form is spot on(had my mom watch me and have a mirror that i can watch myself lift.). Well my question is should my spine be feeling like this after a heavy lift? Like i said it's not a pain.

 

[P-funk]

1. If one of my clients begins to experience knee pain from squats I have them do 2 light sets of leg extensions and 3 sets of leg curls to strengthen the typically weaker parts of the leg. I also make sure their knees do not drift out over their toes. I also make sure they push with their legs, not with their back. I encourage them to use a lighter weight if need be inorder to maintain proper form, and try to keep the back as upright as they can while maintaining the natural arch.

Note:The women I train often have to lean forward a bit more. I make sure they do not round their upper back as they ascend.

2. I give the exact same advice for deadlifts. The drive should be coming from the legs, hips, and glutes not the lower back. The back should be as straight as possible with the natural arch remaining in the lower back but not necessarily upright. At the top of the repetition I have them squeeze their hips and glutes in a sort of pelvic tilt to drive the hips forward. As the hips come forward, the back straightens on its own. Like COWPIMP I have them use light weights utill they get used to the movement. I've noticed when the weight is too heavy people tend to lift with their back too much. GO-PRO pointed out this very thing about Johnny Jackson who is a back injury waiting to happen!!!

Note: For powerlifters with a weak back I add in some extra lower back work and cut back on their squats and deadlifts for a little while until their weak link catches up. I use slow controlled weighted behind the head back extensions first and hyperextensions second. Also I make sure their abs are strong by incorporating weighted crunches and reverse crunches. A strong core-(abdominals and lower back) is one of the best preventive measure against injury along with flexibility.

So for weak kness it's "Leg Extensions" and "Leg Curls." A weak back get "Back Extensions and Crunches."

Does that answer your question or did I miss the boat?

You totally missed the boat.

Leg curls do jack shit for strengthening the hamstrings at the hip your hip.

back extensions wont get you the same load as a squat.....so again I as...HOW DO YOU BALANCE OUT YOUR JOINT MOVEMENTS WITH THE SQUAT????? WHAT HIP EXTENSION EXERCSIES DO YOU DO THAT ARE COMPARABLE TO THE SQUAT IN TERMS OF VOLUME LOAD (TOTAL TONNAGE)....


quit dodging the question. Your answers are becoming more and more vague.

 

[P-funk]

You want to stay injury free, you must do lifts that mimic what we do in everyday life. We must not only thing in terms of the muscles we can see, but those that lie deep. Functional lifting builds strong, functional bodies. There must be a balance of strength between the muscles that move us, and those that stabilize us. The only way to do this is to deadlift, overhead press, squat, lunge, twist, row, etc. I call this 3-dimensional lifting. We do not live life attached to machines, but in a 3-dimensional environment, that requires strength, balance, and stabilization all at once.

Of course, all of the above is moot if proper technique is not used. When poor technique is used, you can get hurt from deadlifting or doing reverse wrist curls.

That said, if you use training to build true functional strength from head to toe, you can get away with many more "physical mishaps" in life that would otherwise cause major problems.

exactly.

 

[IRON MAN]

Yes, discs degenerate over time...and I would venture to guess that 99% of lifters on this site that have been training seriously for more than 10 years have at least a minor herniation, most likely at L5/S1. However, most do not feel it, especially if the entire core is trained properly...and deadlifts is one of the keys to this.

Last year I ended up in bed for 8 full weeks because of a disc herniation that became full blown sciatica. After looking at my MRI my doc said it looked as if I had been in a major car accident. However, he already new that this problem literally came out of nowhere. He explained that I probably had the herniation for many years but never felt it because of my core strength holding everything in place (so to speak).

When he asked me if anything in my program had changed over the last few months (before the pain began), I told him that only one thing I was doing was different...........I STOPPED DEADLIFTING!!

Bingo!

Stopping deadlifts had nothing to do with your disk herniating. If that was the case everyone who did not deadlift would have disk herniations. I wish it were that simple!!!

Note: What exercises/activities had you been doing the week prior to having the sciatica kick it. What had you been doing when you first felt this leg/hip pain start?

 

[IRON MAN]

exactly.

I had read this same cliche many time in the past. Yes it sounds good on paper but in real life experiences it doesn't always pan out. For e.g.; This article is stating "Everyone Must" do such things as overhead pressing. What about those who cannot overhead press or bench press without causing "MORE" trauma to the shoulder girdle??? I do not believe that for one minute that shoulder injuries are always caused by poor form with those two exercises yet they are movements we do everyday!!!

I also read were GO-PRO uses the "Neck Press" for chest. Do you realize that particular exercise can destroy the rotator cuff. Vince Gironda caused many to have shoulder problems by preaching "Neck Presses" for chest development.

Note: As with the shoulders press, the deadlift can be hard on the back due to the intensity employed!!!

 

[Brutus_G]

Hey does anyone know what i'm talking about? And is this bad

When i squat,dead lift,or do heavy shrugs after I've done the exercise my back seems to...decompress(almost expanding back up..)

 

[P-funk]

Ironman,

I can see how you have dodged my question again!


Why do you put a "NOTE" at the end of each post like you are saying somethign important? it is clear your understanding of simple biomechanics is piss poor.

Note: I though that you were only a partial dumb fuck.....Now I am certain you are a 100% jack fuck moron.