My sad deadlift diatribe

[CowPimp]

I'm with P-FUNK on this one because this movement-Good Mornings mimics the "Back Extension Machines" P-FUNK is against. I think deadlifts done with less weight and low intensity work would be a better choice. I can't imagine myself doing an exercise I would not feel comfortable having my clients do. Either way be safe.

This is not at all like a back extension machine. Your back stays extended the entire duration of the movement. I'm against round back good mornings, although some people do those too. Good mornings should be virtually all hip extension. In fact, a good morning should be virtually equivalent to an SLDL except that there is direct loading on your spine due to the placement of the bar.

Also, I do plenty of movements that my clients don't. If I had a client who was a powerlifter, had no history of back problems, and displayed exceptional form on a variety of other exercises, then I might have him perform this movement. However, for your average fat ass looking to lose weight it isn't needed for balance. I pick deadlift variations as a safer alternative that still allows for development of the posterior chain and balance among the anterior musculature of the body.

 

[IRON MAN]

This is not at all like a back extension machine. Your back stays extended the entire duration of the movement. I'm against round back good mornings, although some people do those too. Good mornings should be virtually all hip extension. In fact, a good morning should be virtually equivalent to an SLDL except that there is direct loading on your spine due to the placement of the bar.

Also, I do plenty of movements that my clients don't. If I had a client who was a powerlifter, had no history of back problems, and displayed exceptional form on a variety of other exercises, then I might have him perform this movement. However, for your average fat ass looking to lose weight it isn't needed for balance. I pick deadlift variations as a safer alternative that still allows for development of the posterior chain and balance among the anterior musculature of the body.

Cool..We agree that deadlifts are safer than goodmornings.

 

[IRON MAN]

An article I found that falls in line with my beliefs. But I feel the rounding of the lower back during the deadlift movement tends to occur more often when lifting to complete muscular failure.



The deadlift exercise is effective for strengthening the hamstrings and buttocks. However, many bodybuilders and athletes erroneously use this exercise to target the erector spinae muscles of the lower back by rounding the spine as much as possible on the down phase. As a result, the straight leg or bent knee deadlift can become quite dangerous.

When you bend over and round the spine as you lower the trunk to the horizontal position the forces acting on the spine are compounded greatly. In addition, when bending over with a rounded spine the erector muscles do not counteract the forces generated in the spine. As a result, you can easily over-stretch the strong ligaments that hold the lumbar spine in place and limit the amount of flexion. Because of the high forces acting on only a small portion of the spinal discs and vertebrae, other injuries such as disc ruptures may occur. In fact, bending over and lifting a weight with a rounded back is one of the most common causes of low back injury!

The exercise is much safer if you have sufficient flexibility in the hip joints and good strength of the lower back erector spinae muscles to maintain the normal s-curve of the spine during the down and up actions. To most effectively strengthen the erector spinae do back extensions, the best exercise to work the lower back muscles through their entire range of motion.

 

[P-funk]

source?

 

[CowPimp]

source?

It came straight from MrBiceps.

 

[IRON MAN]

It came straight from MrBiceps.

LOL...

 

[IRON MAN]

source?

I think it was written by Fred Hatfield.

 

[IRON MAN]

Question!!!

Since muscle balance between the abs and lower back is so important, and various forms of weighted crunches are sufficient for building the front side of the spine, why do some of you feel that the antagonist movement for the crunch-" weighted back extensions", is not enough to build the back side of the spine?

I don't get it???

 

[P-funk]

Since muscle balance between the abs and lower back is so important, and various forms of weighted crunches are sufficient for building the front side of the spine, why do some of you feel that the antagonist movement for the crunch-" weighted back extensions", is not enough to build the back side of the spine?

I don't get it???

unless a person absolutely needs to be doing crunching movements (like they are really really weak and deconditioned), I try and shy away from them because of the reason you gave before...pressure on the lower back if the crunch is carried out through to great of an ROM (ie, closer to a sit up). Sometimes the exercise just seems like a way to hurt yourself.

For most people, as far as "core" is concerned, I do a lot of stabilization things like planks or bird dogs, holding for time etc...to work on that. I also do hyperextensions on the hyper bench with static holds at the top to teach them how to stabilize themselves. Other then that, they are going to get abdominal work through the entire session, just doing exercises.

I was talking about a hip extension movement which off sets quad dominant movents. the hyper bench can be set up to hip the hip extensors but the amount of load is no where near that of what people can squat so you still could be setting yourself up for a potential muscle imbalance. that was what i was asking you about.

 

[IRON MAN]

unless a person absolutely needs to be doing crunching movements (like they are really really weak and deconditioned), I try and shy away from them because of the reason you gave before...pressure on the lower back if the crunch is carried out through to great of an ROM (ie, closer to a sit up). Sometimes the exercise just seems like a way to hurt yourself.

For most people, as far as "core" is concerned, I do a lot of stabilization things like planks or bird dogs, holding for time etc...to work on that. I also do hyperextensions on the hyper bench with static holds at the top to teach them how to stabilize themselves. Other then that, they are going to get abdominal work through the entire session, just doing exercises.

I was talking about a hip extension movement which off sets quad dominant movents. the hyper bench can be set up to hip the hip extensors but the amount of load is no where near that of what people can squat so you still could be setting yourself up for a potential muscle imbalance. that was what i was asking you about.

I see now..I'm of the opinion that the muscles of the lower back will always over-power the abs "regardless".

Great idea you have with static holds!!! I also use weighted static holds on hyper/back-extrensions. Works very well for strengthening the neck muscles because working through a full range of movement can wreak havoc on the cervical spine.

Note: The idea of working an exercise through it's full range of motion inorder to increase flexibility isn't always what it cracked up to be. For e.g.; "Impingment Syndrome" can occur to the supraspinatus tendon when doing lateral raise above the level position even though impingment of the shoulder generally occurs in activities that require the arm to be abducted or flexed and medially rotated, as when throwing a baseball. Not allowing the dumbells to travel above the level position may limit shoulder joint flexibility, but it can prevent rotator cuff injuries. I believe the same theroy holds true with doing damage to the spinal disc. GO-PRO stated lifting with twisting motion is usually what cause a disc to herniate and I agree. But doing deadlifts with a full range of motion can also be hard on the lower back. As with the lateral raise, deadlifting with a full range of motion might increase flexibilty of the spine but it will also increase the risk of injury to that area. I believe the same holds true with such as exercises as flyes, flat bench press, squats, preacher curls, press behind the neck, vertical leg press and crunches.

 

[CowPimp]

I see now..I'm of the opinion that the muscles of the lower back will always over-power the abs "regardless".

Great idea you have with static holds!!! I also use weighted static holds on hyper/back-extrensions. Works very well for strengthening the neck muscles because working through a full range of movement can wreak havoc on the cervical spine.

Note: The idea of working an exercise through it's full range of motion inorder to increase flexibility isn't always what it cracked up to be. For e.g.; "Impingment Syndrome" can occur to the supraspinatus tendon when doing lateral raise above the level position even though impingment of the shoulder generally occurs in activities that require the arm to be abducted or flexed and medially rotated, as when throwing a baseball. Not allowing the dumbells to travel above the level position may limit shoulder joint flexibility, but it can prevent rotator cuff injuries. I believe the same theroy holds true with doing damage to the spinal disc. GO-PRO stated lifting with twisting motion is usually what cause a disc to herniate and I agree. But doing deadlifts with a full range of motion can also be hard on the lower back. As with the lateral raise, deadlifting with a full range of motion might increase flexibilty of the spine but it will also increase the risk of injury to that area. I believe the same holds true with such as exercises as flyes, flat bench press, squats, preacher curls, press behind the neck, vertical leg press and crunches.

That still doesn't really answer the question...

 

[IRON MAN]

That still doesn't really answer the question...

When I recieve a client who might have a possible muscle imbalance with quad dominant movements-( torso is bent forward less than 45% during the movement), the first thing I do is make sure they are keeping their backs arched and have them push their knees outward during the negative portion of the squat to keep the stress off the knees and lower back. The negative is the most dangerous portion of the movement!!!


The 1st hip "EXTENSION" exercise I would use are weighted hypers along with additional helpers such as leg curls, leg extensions,and weighted back extensions. "If that does not solve the problem," I will resort to using Rack Pulls/Romaninan deadlifts to build up the (hamstrings/glutes), but I do not use Standard or Stiff Legged Deadlifts with "BODYBUILDERS" for this purpose because they can round the back at the bottom of the movement, WHEN TRAINING TO FAILURE!!! I avoid having them train to failure with Rack pulls as it's very demanding and can disrupt the breathing process during the negative portion of the lift taking pressure off the abdominal wall creating extra pressure on the lower back.

Note: I cannot stress enough how important it is to avoid training to absolute muscular failure on a "Frequent Basis" with any form of deadlifts.

 

[P-funk]

When I recieve a client who might have a possible muscle imbalance with quad dominant movements-( torso is bent forward less than 45% during the movement), the first thing I do is make sure they are keeping their backs arched and have them push their knees outward during the negative portion of the squat to keep the stress off the knees and lower back. The negative is the most dangerous portion of the movement!!!

I am going to disagree with this.....big time!

If a person is imbalanced and hip dominant and displaying an anterior pelvic tilt like you are describing the last thing on earth I would ahve them do is squat! The severe tilt is indicative of tight/over active hip flexors, weak abdominals and usually follwed up with weak glutes and sometimes hamstring which display synergistic dominance to off set the glute problem. this causes an enourmous tug on the pelvis, opening the lower back up to all sorts of pressure.

Pushing their knees out on a squat is a great way to activate the glultes but that still doesn't cut it....especially if the hamstrings are firing improperly to overcompensate for the weakness.

I would do abdominal work, stabilization work and I would have them do glute activation work (bridging etc...). I would lay off of the squatting or hip dominant movements at first to try and correct the imbalance rather then make it worse.


Also, the negative portion of the squat is not the most dangerous part of the exercise at all. OUr eccentric strength over powers our concentric strength so much that one can usually eccentrically decelerate 110-130% more then their concentric strength. It is when the person tries to apply force that their form typically breaks down.

The 1st hip flexor exercise I would use are weighted hypers along with additional helpers such as leg curls, leg extensions,and weighted back extensions. "If that does not solve the problem," I will resort to using Rack Pulls/Romaninan deadlifts to build up the (hamstrings/glutes), but I do not use Standard or Stiff Legged Deadlifts with "BODYBUILDERS" for this purpose because they can round the back at the bottom of the movement, WHEN TRAINING TO FAILURE!!! I avoid having them train to failure with Rack pulls as it's very demanding and can disrupt the breathing process during the negative portion of the lift taking pressure off the abdominal wall creating extra pressure on the lower back.

Note: I cannot stress enough how important it is to avoid training to absolute muscular failure on a "Frequent Basis" with any form of deadlifts.

Hypers ARE NOT a hip flexor exercise! they work the hip extensors (glutes and hammies).

leg curls work the hamstrings and gastroc at the knee joint....not at the hip. working them at the knee is couter productive in this case because the person is already synergytically dominant in that area. they need glulte strength.

 

[IRON MAN]

I am going to disagree with this.....big time!

If a person is imbalanced and hip dominant and displaying an anterior pelvic tilt like you are describing the last thing on earth I would ahve them do is squat! The severe tilt is indicative of tight/over active hip flexors, weak abdominals and usually follwed up with weak glutes and sometimes hamstring which display synergistic dominance to off set the glute problem. this causes an enourmous tug on the pelvis, opening the lower back up to all sorts of pressure.

Pushing their knees out on a squat is a great way to activate the glultes but that still doesn't cut it....especially if the hamstrings are firing improperly to overcompensate for the weakness.

I would do abdominal work, stabilization work and I would have them do glute activation work (bridging etc...). I would lay off of the squatting or hip dominant movements at first to try and correct the imbalance rather then make it worse.


Also, the negative portion of the squat is not the most dangerous part of the exercise at all. OUr eccentric strength over powers our concentric strength so much that one can usually eccentrically decelerate 110-130% more then their concentric strength. It is when the person tries to apply force that their form typically breaks down.





Hypers ARE NOT a hip flexor exercise! they work the hip extensors (glutes and hammies).

leg curls work the hamstrings and gastroc at the knee joint....not at the hip. working them at the knee is couter productive in this case because the person is already synergytically dominant in that area. they need glulte strength.

I meant hip extension not flexion and of course leg curls and leg extensions are not hip dominant exercises. Surely you knew I meant here??? To qualify as one, there has to be movement at the hip joint, and the leg curls simply do not do this, making them a very poor choice for balancing the strength levels between the two main sections of the upper leg but they do balance out the knees and your first question related to the knees so I answered both question with one answer!!!

NOTE: Deadlifts are eqivalent to Squats in terms of being "QUAD DOMINANT" and that's why Louie Simmons recommends BOX SQUATS as an assistor. The RMDL has to be properly executed to get the desired effect.

One of the most effective, most overlooked, and on the rare occasion it is performed, most poorly executed exercises for this purpose is the Romanian Deadlift.

 

[P-funk]

I meant hip extension not flexion and of course leg curls and leg extensions are not hip dominant exercises. Surely you knew I meant here??? To qualify as one, there has to be movement at the hip joint, and the leg curls simply do not do this, making them a very poor choice for balancing the strength levels between the two main sections of the upper leg but they do balance out the knees and your first question related to the knees so I answered both question with one answer!!!

NOTE: Deadlifts are eqivalent to Squats in terms of being "QUAD DOMINANT" and that's why Louie Simmons recommends BOX SQUATS as an assistor. The RMDL has to be properly executed to get the desired effect.

One of the most effective, most overlooked, and on the rare occasion it is performed, most poorly executed exercises for this purpose is the Romanian Deadlift (R

thaks for your NOTE. I know what Louie Simmons said. I have read a shit ton of his articles. If your quads are thea weakest link you should squat to a parallel box to work on that lock out...but the main muscles of the squat ARE THE HIPS meaning hip flexors), GLUTES, LOWER BACK and hamstrings.

read and learn:

I will bold the part you should read...

Box Squatting By: Louie Simmons


Box squatting is the most effective method to produce a first-rate squat. This is, in my opinion, the safest way to squat because you don't use as much weight as you would with a regular squat.
Let me say first that, no, they won't hurt your spine, you don't use1000 lbs. on a 25 inch tall box, you don't rock on the box, you don't touch and go, and there is no need to do regular power squats before a meet. No knee wraps are worn nor are the straps of the suit pulled up.
By doing sets of 2 reps for at least 8 sets with short rest periods, you will get about a 200 lb. carryover to your regular squat. Two of our lifters finished their lifting cycle before a meet with 8 sets of 2 reps with 505 lbs. off a slightly below parallel box, and both squatted 700 for a meet PR One was competing in the 242s and the other as a 275. Two years before, in his first meet, our 275 pounder squatted 465 - quite an improvement!
There are many advantages to box squatting. One of the most important is recuperation. You can train more often on a box than you can doing regular squats. The original Westside boys (Culver City, CA) did them three times a week, which I feel is a bit extreme, but they paved the way for this type of training. We do them for the squat part of our workout on Fridays and occasionally on Mondays to build hip and low back power for deadlifting. The NBA's Utah Jazz do box squats for the same reason - recuperation. Greg Shepherd, their strength coach, is a former member of the Culver City gym.
The second reason is equally important. It is generally accepted that you should keep your shins perpendicular to the floor when squatting. With box squatting, you can go past this point (that is, an imaginary line drawn from your ankle to your knee will point toward your body), which places all the stress on the major squatting muscles- hips, glutes, lower back, and hamstrings. This is a tremendous advantage-
Thirdly, you don't have to ask anyone if you were parallel. Once you establish a below parallel height, all of your squats will be just that -below parallel. I have seen it over and over. As the weights get heavier, the squats get higher. This can't happen with box squats.

If your hips are weak, use a below parallel box with a wide stance. If you need low back power, use a close stance, below parallel. If your quads are weak, work on a parallel box. If you have a sticking point about 2 inches above parallel, as is common, then work on a box that is 2 inches above parallel. Our advanced squatters use all below parallel boxes. This builds so much power out of the hole that there will be no sticking points.
As an added bonus, box squats will build the deadlift as well by overloading the hips and lower back muscles. Your ability to explode off the floor will increase greatly. One of our 275 pounders, Jerry Obradovich, put 50 lbs. on his dead lift in 3 months by doing extra box squats during that time period, going from 672 to 722 at the 1994 APF Junior Nationals. Chuck Vogelpohl deadlifts only about once in 8 weeks yet pulls 793 in the 242s. Chuck relies on wide box squats on a low, 12-inch box and does a lot of reverse hypers and chest-supported rows.
Now, how do you do a box squat? They are performed just like regular squats. Fill your abdomen with air, and push out against your belt. Push your knees out as far as possible to the sides and with a tightly arched back, squat back, not down, until you completely sit on the box. Every muscle is kept tight while on the box with the exception of the hip flexors. By releasing and then contracting the hip flexors and arching the upper back, you will jump off the box, building tremendous starting strength. Remember to sit back and down, not straight down. Your hamstrings will be strengthened to a high degree, which is essential. Many don't know this, but the hamstrings are hip extensors. Some great squatters have large quads and some do not, but they all have large hamstrings where they tie into the glutes. Remember to sit on the box completely and flex off.
Now, how do you know how much you can full squat if you box squat all the time? Well, let's say you have squatted 600 lbs. in a meet and decided to box squat. Let's say you can do 550 off a parallel box; that's a 50-lb. carry-over. Now you are doing only box squats and you take a weight 4-6 weeks into the cycle. You hit a 575 squat, a 25-lb. jump on that particular box. This will carry over to your 600 contest best. So now expect a 625 at your next meet.
I recommend that you train with 65-82% of your box record on each particular box height that you use. Change box heights every 3-4 weeks. Do not base the training weight on your full squat record! Box squats are much harder than full squats! Do 8-12 sets of 2 reps with 1 minute rest between sets. This is a tough workout! The week that you reach 82%, reduce the sets to 6. Don't train with more than 82%. You can try a max the after you train with 82%. If you are going to a meet, take a weight 2 weeks before the meet. The week before the meet use 70% for 6-8 sets.
This type of squatting is hard work, but each rep shouldn't be hard. Don't get psyched up to do your sets. We have found that 2 reps is ideal because any more may cause bicipital tendonitis and if you are doing 12 sets, you are doing 12 first reps per workout. After all, the first rep is the most important one. This will make your contest squat much better. Our most talented lifters will do best on their first rep and then tire quickly whereas our lower skilled people will do better after the first rep is completed because they use the first rep as a body awareness tool. As they become more skilled, their first rep will be their best.
I know box squatting is not common, mostly because no one knows how do them. After reading this or watching my squat tape you should be fully aware of the benefits. Many great squatters have done box squats including Marv Phillips, Larry Kidney, Roger Estep, Matt Dimel, and of course George Fern, who did an 853 squat in track shorts in 1970. If box squats didn't work, we wouldn't do them. We have 20 lifters who have squatted over 700 lbs. in a meet including a 198 who has done 804. 1 hope this article clears up any misconceptions and leads to great success on the lifting platform.

here is another article...I will again bold what is said....

By: Louie Simmons
How to Do the Squat


What is good squat form? What does it take to develop a great squat? First you must develop the hips, hamstrings, spinal erectors, glutes, and abs. Without a strong posterior chain (the muscles on the back of the body), you will not sit back into the proper squat position. That???s right. Sit back, never down. If the knees go forward in the yielding phase, they could hit the floor and the hips still would be above parallel.
I talk to strength coaches from major universities on how to squat. I tell them that we have 24 guys who have squatted over 800 and six over 900 by box squatting with a wide stance. Many times these coaches will reply, I like Olympic squatting. One reason I guess is that Olympic squatting is what they were brought up on. But why do powerlifters use a wider stance? Because you use more muscle, and isn???t that what we???re after on the sports field? Only a wrestler would find himself in the weakest joint angles of an Olympic squat. That???s probably why there are no old, great Olympic lifters. Their joints are gone.
When a prominent pro basketball coach said that Olympic squats were the best for his players and that a two-times bodyweight squat was all an athlete needs, I realized that a weak coach can only produce weak players. This coach and many like him must have a huge library and a very small weight room. Take Ben Johnson, for example. He squatted 620 at about 200 pounds. That???s three times bodyweight! Football players' careers are being shortened not by the competition but by the fact that they are too frail compared to 10 years ago. I saw Brett Favre come out of the locker room and squat cold with the linemen using the same weight. That's like having five quarterbacks protecting your quarterback, and that's bull.
Let's get to squat technique, starting with the feet. They should be pointed straight forward. This forces the hip muscles into play. It is much harder to break parallel because the hip extensors and flexors are put in a very strong position for flexion. Turn the feet outward slightly if you are not flexible or if you are very thick in the waist and upper thighs. If you see someone who walks with their feet turned outward, they have weak hamstrings.
As far as shoes go, Converse Chuck Taylor's are best. Don't have $100 shoes and a 10-cent squat.
When squatting, think about pushing your feet out, not down. This will ensure that the hip muscles are working correctly. Push your knees out the entire time, starting from when you are unracking the bar. You should feel this in the hips. Next, start pushing the glutes to the rear as thought you are searching for a hair that is too far behind you. Arch the lower back and keep the chest up. Lean forwards as much as necessary to keep the bar over your center of gravity.
To ensure correct bar placement, raise the chest and pull the shoulder blades together, to place the bar back as far as possible. This creates better leverage. However, if one carries the bar too low, it causes the lifter to bend forward, destroying leverage.
What stance should you use? Everyone should box squat with a wide stance, because this builds the all-important hip muscles. Thirty years ago, the great Jim Williams said to train as wide as possible and pull your stance in, to a point, to break parallel at meet time. If you watch a great squat technician, you will notice that he bends only at the hips, the knees don???t go forward, and his back does not move.
While descending in the squat, never squat down. Always squat back! If you push the glutes back, the knees will not go forward. In fact, if you sit back far enough, the shins will be past vertical. This is only possible with box squatting. And it???s important because this causes a great stretch reflex. Also, by forcing your knees apart, you are significantly increasing your leverage, by shortening the distance between the hip and the knee joint. If you pull your knees together, you increase this distance and create poor leverage. In addition, this is a sign of weak hip muscles.
After breaking parallel, you must first push against the bar. After all, the bar is what we are trying to raise. Unfortunately, you see many lifters who push with their feet first. This causes you to bend forward Into a good morning position, which is opposite of what you are trying to achieve, in addition to being dangerous. When your back bends, you are likely to miss a squat or get injured.
Most people think of squatting as a multi-joint muscular action. I see it as flexion of the spinal erectors and hip flexors and slight flexion of the knees. It???s much like trying to jump onto a high box; you flex as much as possible in the beginning and hope you make it. Others push gradually through the lift; just enough to accommodate the external force that is being applied.
As far as equipment, in a meet, wrap the knees toward the inside. This means wrap one clockwise and the other counterclockwise. This helps to stabilize them. Wear a suit that allows the knees to be forced outward ad the glutes to be pushed out to the rear. Don't wear straps that are too tight. This will cause you to bend over. In training wear a suit with the straps down and a belt. This will help the technical aspects of squatting. When someone must wear full gear for 3-4 weeks before a meet, their technical skill is low.
To summarize, build the posterior chain: calves, hams, glutes, lower and upper back. Strong abs are a must. They are what you lean on to descend and push off of to ascend. Out of our top 100 squat-ters, four use an upright back position. That means that 96% lean forward, with - of course - a great arch. While descending, the glutes move first and the head and bar move last. So, in the concentric phase, the opposite happens. You must push against the bar first.
One workout per week must be devoted to speed (box squatting) and one for maximal effort, with a variety of core exercises such as good mornings and squatting with special bars that change your center of gravity.
To all strength coaches: the next time you have your athletes do Olympic squats, ask yourself why. The joint angles are not advantageous for the stretch reflex. If a lineman were to use that position on the field, he would easily be pushed backward. The Olympic lifts require flexibility. There are many drills better suited to increase flexibility. Everyone thinks the Olympic lifts are so quick. While your cleans at 60% look fast, so do our box squats at 60%. The athlete who can power clean 400 uses 240(60%). The lifter who can squat 800 uses 480 (60%). Who do you really think would be faster and stronger? Compared to a powerlifter, an Olympic lifter can???t squat with the Sunday paper. A kid that can hang clean 400 would look frail to an 800 squatter. And don???t forget, in Olympic lifting, as the bar is raising, the lifter is lowering himself, making it appear that they are moving the bar at great speed. Olympic lifting is the biggest bust in the United States. We have not placed a single lifter on the "A" list, yet strength coaches still advocate the Olympic lifts.

 

[P-funk]

On another side note, why would you teach anyone to squat that wide if you are training them? it puts tremendous pressure on the hips. I am not a fan of it at all for the general population. It puts a great deal of strain on the lumbar spine.

 

[IRON MAN]

How to do the RDL!!!

How To Perform (Romanian Deadlifts/Rack Pulls)

Set the racks in a power rack to just about knee level there is no need for safety rods if you lose control during a lift but they can be used and are recommended. Set a standard Olympic bar on the rack, Walk up, squat down slightly while maintaining a small curve in the lower back, grasp the bar, and stand back up. You want your hands to be shoulder width apart, perhaps slightly wider if you find it to be more comfortable. Take a few steps back, and set yourself for the exercise. Being set includes making sure your feet are shoulder width apart, your chest is up, your lower back has a slight curve in it, and your knees are slightly bent (not locked). Once set you're ready to start the exercise.

Start by tightening your core musculature (abs and lower back) to ensure a secure spine. Keeping the bar close in to your body (it should maintain slight contact with the body at all times) start to bend at the hips, taking care that the lower back does not move.

The lower back should not loose its natural s curve at any time during the movement. Loosing this curve and bending or even straitening the lower back will put your lower back in a position to become injured. Practice with a light weight until you can bend over at the "hips" without bending the "lower back."

As you descend, the butt should move back ever so slightly and you should feel a stretch in the "leg bicep". Visualize it as a hamstring stretch with no lower back movement. Most people will find that they can safely bring the bar down to around "knee level" before their (lower back begins to straighten to the "DANGER ZONE").



At the point right before you reach the limit of your hamstring range of motion you should stop and then slowly reverse the movement, taking care to keep the bar in close and maintaining a safe lower back position. Towards the top of the movement really force the hips through by squeezing the glutes.

The biggest mistake most people will make in the execution of this exercise is not maintaining the position of their lower back. Some will even go so far as to bend all the way over till the weight touches the ground. This is a misunderstanding of this exercise and its purposes by some. It is not meant simply as a "hamstring stretch" as some beleive, nor is it meant to directly work the "lower back", although the lower back will get stronger from performing this exercise.

In order to properly strengthen the "HIP EXTENSORS", you need to use HEAVIER WORK LOADS than what would be used for STANDARD DEADLIFTS. Such heavy weights are too dangerous for the lower back to handle in a (prime mover) or (synergistic roles). In order to derive maximum benefits from this movement, you must keep the lower back from moving and let it play a much safer role as a (stabilizer).

NOTE:Rack pulls/Romanian deadlifts is a modified hyper-extension using much more weight!!!

 

[IRON MAN]

On another side note, why would you teach anyone to squat that wide if you are training them? it puts tremendous pressure on the hips. I am not a fan of it at all for the general population. It puts a great deal of strain on the lumbar spine.

I'm not a fan of BOX-SQUAT either. I was just using Louie Simmons as an example.

 

[P-funk]

How To Perform (Romanian Deadlifts/Rack Pulls)

Set the racks in a power rack to just about knee level there is no need for safety rods if you lose control during a lift but they can be used. Set a standard Olympic bar on the rack, Walk up, squat down slightly while maintaining a small curve in the lower back, grasp the bar, and stand back up. You want your hands to be shoulder width apart, perhaps slightly wider if you find it to be more comfortable. Take a few steps back, and set yourself for the exercise. Being set includes making sure your feet are shoulder width apart, your chest is up, your lower back has a slight curve in it, and your knees are slightly bent (not locked). Once set you're ready to start the exercise.

Start by tightening your core musculature (abs and lower back) to ensure a secure spine. Keeping the bar close in to your body (it should maintain slight contact with the body at all times) start to bend at the hips, taking care that the lower back does not move.

The lower back should not loose its natural s curve at any time during the movement. Loosing this curve and bending or even straitening the lower back will put your lower back in a position to become injured. Practice with a light weight until you can bend over at the "hips" without bending the "lower back."

As you descend, the butt should move back ever so slightly and you should feel a stretch in the "leg bicep". Visualize it as a hamstring stretch with no lower back movement. Most people will find that they can safely bring the bar down to around "knee level" before their (lower back begins to straighten to the "DANGER ZONE").



At the point right before you reach the limit of your hamstring range of motion you should stop and then slowly reverse the movement, taking care to keep the bar in close and maintaining a safe lower back position. Towards the top of the movement really force the hips through by squeezing the glutes.

The biggest mistake most people will make in the execution of this exercise is not maintaining the position of their lower back. Some will even go so far as to bend all the way over till the weight touches the ground. This is a misunderstanding of this exercise and its purposes by some. It is not meant simply as a "hamstring stretch" as some beleive, nor is it meant to directly work the "lower back", although the lower back will get stronger from performing this exercise.

In order to properly strengthen the "HIP EXTENSORS", you need to use HEAVIER WORK LOADS than what would be used for STANDARD DEADLIFTS. Such heavy weights are too dangerous for the lower back to handle in a (prime mover) or (synergistic roles). In order to derive maximum benefits from this movement, you must keep the lower back from moving and let it play a much safer role as a (stabilizer).

NOTE:Rack pulls/Romanian deadlifts is a modified hyper-extension using much more weight!!!

source??


RDLs are a great exercise. But, they are much like doing a full deadlift in that you don't bend you knees enough to touch the floor. I don't see how you can advocate RDLs and rack pulls but not deadlifts. Rack pulls especially since people can pull supramaximal in relation to their full deadlift in that exercise.

 

[P-funk]

I'm not a fan of BOX-SQUAT either. I was just using Louie Simmons as an example.

why use something as an example if you don't believe in it?

 

[IRON MAN]

thaks for your NOTE. I know what Louie Simmons said. I have read a shit ton of his articles. If your quads are thea weakest link you should squat to a parallel box to work on that lock out...but the main muscles of the squat ARE THE HIPS meaning hip flexors), GLUTES, LOWER BACK and hamstrings.

read and learn:

I will bold the part you should read...



here is another article...I will again bold what is said....

Squats do work the abs and thats why some PRO'S stop doing heavy squats-they thicken the waist line. I think we have come full circle with this debate. I'll join GO-PRO and go back over to my forum now as we seem to be wasting our time.

 

[P-funk]

Squats do work the abs and thats why some PRO'S stop doing heavy squats-they thicken the waist line. I think we have come full circle with this debate. I'll join GO-PRO and go back over to my forum now as we seem to be wasting our time.

who was saying that squats don't work the abs? we are talking about the hips here.....you keep changing your mind in the middle of the discussion.



NOTE: ARGUING BIOMECHANICS WITH MORONS THAT HAVE LITTLE TO NO UNDERSTANDING OF FUNCTIONAL ANATOMY IS A WASTE OF MY SUNDAY.


you should go back to your forum (no need to bring gopro into it...he is smart and he doesn't agree with you either)......at least in oyur forum those people there still think you are smart. In the training forum you are doing nothing more then establishing yourself as a fuck nut.

 

[IRON MAN]

who was saying that squats don't work the abs? we are talking about the hips here.....you keep changing your mind in the middle of the discussion.



NOTE: ARGUING BIOMECHANICS WITH MORONS THAT HAVE LITTLE TO NO UNDERSTANDING OF FUNCTIONAL ANATOMY IS A WASTE OF MY SUNDAY.


you should go back to your forum (no need to bring gopro into it...he is smart and he doesn't agree with you either)......at least in oyur forum those people there still think you are smart. In the training forum you are doing nothing more then establishing yourself as a fuck nut.

You'll get your ass stomped real good in the South with that attitude you got there "boy"..

Maybe one day we can all be smart like you..Eh?:

 

[P-funk]

You'll get your ass stomped real good in the South with that attitude you got there "boy"..

Maybe one day we can all be smart like you..Eh?:

please.