Narrow or Wide stance?

[CowPimp]

I have my legs just a little over my shoulders width. Is this good?

That's fine. Don't overthink it, just squat and go deep. You will benefit regardless!

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

I have my legs just a little over my shoulders width. Is this good?

fine. just be sure it's a full squat and none of this 'going to parallel' crap.

 

[Stu]

fine. just be sure it's a full squat and none of this 'going to parallel' crap.

in powerlifting going to parallel is considered a full squat, if you are putting up big numbers you can say goodbye to your knees by going ATG.

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

in powerlifting going to parallel is considered a full squat, if you are putting up big numbers you can say goodbye to your knees by going ATG.

is Wonderboy a powerlifter?

i'd never consider parallel a full squat. but that's how i'm programmed.

 

[Squaggleboggin]

in powerlifting going to parallel is considered a full squat, if you are putting up big numbers you can say goodbye to your knees by going ATG.

I have yet to see any conclusive scientific evidence that shows using a full ROM is in any way unhealthy. If you have any to show, please post it.

 

[Stu]

i dont have any scientific evidence either but that doesnt mean im gonna blindly ignore the advice from people who have been squatting 15+ years.

 

[Squaggleboggin]

i dont have any scientific evidence either but that doesnt mean im gonna blindly ignore the advice from people who have been squatting 15+ years.

A lot of 'advice' is just a load of crap. Olympic lifters go very deep. I didn't know they were infamous for having badly beaten bodies. Most people just don't go ATG because it's actually hard. A lot of these people probably made up excuses not to and it turned into this myth...

 

[Stu]

I wasnt aware that olympic lifters squatted in competition

 

[Squaggleboggin]

I wasnt aware that olympic lifters squatted in competition

They train ATG all the time. Front squats are ATG, overhead squats are ATG. They use a full ROM in their lifts and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone more powerful for a given size than an olympic lifter. Whether they actually perform a squat repetition specifically in a competition is irrelevant.

 

[CowPimp]

I wasnt aware that olympic lifters squatted in competition

Have you seen how deep they go on a C&J or snatch? It's not just a squat, it's a squat that is forced down by a falling bar with hundreds of pounds on it.

In fact, I was told that their asses used to actually hit the ground. A rule was implemented to stop this because they were hitting the ground with such force that they were receiving assistance on the way up in the form of the reaction force from the ground on their ass.

There is no proof that squatting deep is bad for the knees. In fact, I have also heard the contrary.

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

There is no proof that squatting deep is bad for the knees.

exactly...that's because it's a myth, but you knew that.

 

[The Monkey Man]

exactly...that's because it's a myth, but you knew that.

Tell that to my knees -




JK... the problem I have is a flexibility issue...
My knee pain is caused by inflammation in my Patellar Tendons
this started when I began training squats deeper than PL comp depth
IE... Olympic depth... It has been slowly improving as has my form.

Foot position should be planar with knee and hip articulation IMO,
so as not to place torque on the ankles or knees

 

[Stu]

whether you guys like or not, the deeper you squat the more stress is placed on the knee now. if you have young healthy knees then thats probably not a problem, if however you have had a knee injury before, you'll know how painful they can be so your just gonna have to forgive me for not going all the way down on heavy squats

 

[CowPimp]

whether you guys like or not, the deeper you squat the more stress is placed on the knee now. if you have young healthy knees then thats probably not a problem, if however you have had a knee injury before, you'll know how painful they can be so your just gonna have to forgive me for not going all the way down on heavy squats

Seriously, where did you learn this? Is it something you just heard around? I'm willing to bet yes.

Strength training improves the ability of connective tissue to withstand stress. The same holds true for that of the connective tissues in the knee. Squats strengthen these tissues and muscles that help stabilize the knee. It is more likely to prevent an injury than cause one if you use proper form. Just don't use wraps or squat on a smitch machine and you'll be just fine.

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

Strength training improves the ability of connective tissue to withstand stress. The same holds true for that of the connective tissues in the knee. Squats strengthen these tissues and muscles that help stabilize the knee. It is more likely to prevent an injury than cause one if you use proper form. Just don't use wraps or squat on a smitch machine and you'll be just fine.

fantastic post

 

[Stu]

When i injured my knee it was the most painful experience ever, i can tell that when i squat deep it causes stress to the knee because i can feel pain. Maybe full squatting will be ok if the injury ever fully heals but at the moment im not willing to risk it.

 

[Stu]

Seriously, where did you learn this? Is it something you just heard around? I'm willing to bet yes.

Strength training improves the ability of connective tissue to withstand stress. The same holds true for that of the connective tissues in the knee. Squats strengthen these tissues and muscles that help stabilize the knee. It is more likely to prevent an injury than cause one if you use proper form. Just don't use wraps or squat on a smitch machine and you'll be just fine.

to a degree yes but some connective tissue especially the ACL, PCL in the knee is unlikely to heal without invasive surgery

 

[The13ig13adWolf]

to a degree yes but some connective tissue especially the ACL, PCL in the knee is unlikely to heal without invasive surgery

what kind of injury do you have?

have you tried lightening the load and really focusing on your form? not trying to be degarding in any way but i have introduced full ATG squats to a handful of folks with knee injuries and they're problem has improved significantly over time. in many cases their knee pain has vanished entirely.

 

[Stu]

i had a partial tear in the MCL (which seems to of healed fairly well) accompanied by a partial sprain of ACL which has never really got better, i can go months without fealing anything is wrong then one day il do something as simple as turn round too quickly and then i can feel it go again.

 

[CowPimp]

We're talking about healthy knees here. Obviously injuries warrant a different training protocol. All weight training places stress on connective tissues. Of course! Your body adapts to handle it though. However, your case is different.

According to studies I've read, squats place very little stress on the ACL. Squats are a great rehab exercise for the ACL, even deep. In terms of the PCL, well, that does have a lot of stress imposed on it at parallel; in fact, anything beyond about a 50 degree bend and the stress increases dramatically. I have yet to find a study that does indicate if this stress further increases below parallel. I did, however, locate a study that measure the palletofemoral stress measured when doing a squat to 70, 90, and 110 degrees among women collegiate athletes. The change in stress to the knee was negligible.

Patellofemoral joint kinetics during squatting in collegiate women athletes.

Salem GJ, Powers CM.

Musculoskeletal Biomechanics Research Laboratory, Department of Biokinesiology and Physical Therapy, University of Southern California, 1540 E. Alcazar Street, CHP-155, Los Angeles, CA 90033, USA. gsalem@hsc.usc.edu

OBJECTIVE:To characterize the biomechanics of the patellofemoral joint during squatting in collegiate women athletes. DESIGN: Repeated measures experimental design. BACKGROUND: Although squatting exercises are required components of most intercollegiate resistance-training programs and are commonly performed during rehabilitation, the effects of various squatting depths on patellofemoral joint stress have not been quantified. METHODS: Anthropometric data, three-dimensional knee kinematics, and ground reaction forces were used to calculate the knee extensor moment (inverse dynamics approach) in five intercollegiate female athletes during squatting exercise at three different depths (approximately 70 degrees, 90 degrees and 110 degrees of knee flexion). A biomechanical model of the patellofemoral joint was used to quantify the patellofemoral joint reaction force and patellofemoral joint stress during each trial. RESULTS: Peak knee extensor moment, patellofemoral joint reaction force and patellofemoral joint stress did not vary significantly between the three squatting trials. CONCLUSIONS: Squatting from 70 degrees to 110 degrees of knee flexion had little effect on patellofemoral joint kinetics. The relative constancy of the patellofemoral joint reaction force and joint stress appeared to be related to a consistent knee extensor moment produced across the three squatting depths. RELEVANCE: The results of this study do not support the premise that squatting to 110 degrees places greater stress on the patellofemoral joint than squatting to 70 degrees. These findings may have implications with respect to the safe design of athletic training regimens and rehabilitation programs.