Natural Bodybuilders

[squanto]

i consider myself natural... i eat "food". i take multivitamins but even that is iffy. what makes one extracted chemical any less natural than another extracted chemical. to me, if you use supplements you are unnatural. i believe the term "natural" is meant to be "legal". i disagree... i dont use any supplements not becuaes i think they are bad, they jsut dont seem to do anything for me, maybe i havent found the right ones... but i believe this is the only way to be completely natural. the term natural in today's BB world is absurd.

 

[CowPimp]

I'm not going to get into the semantics of what is natural and what isn't. You can consider me whatever you will. I consider myself natural, but any poster could probably disabuse me of some technicality that would make me unnatural in someone's perspective.

I eat protein bars, brewer's yeast, a multivitamin pill, and a multimineral pill. I am definitely considering getting some whey, or other, protein powder to supplement my protein intake more.

 

[M.J.H.]

NO WAAAAY bro. From my own experience, ph's are NOTHING like the real thing, not even remotely close.
Try a cycle, then you'll see for yourself

What kind of PH cycle did you do? And what kind of anabolic cycle did you do? It seems that people who have done a trasdermal PH cycle get effects very similar to that of anabolics.

I mean when 1-test powder is available, etc. I think that's hardly a PH anymore---to me thats an anabolic. Both PH's and anabolics are horomones that you're putting into your body. Just my $.02.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by MonStar
What kind of PH cycle did you do? And what kind of anabolic cycle did you do? It seems that people who have done a trasdermal PH cycle get effects very similar to that of anabolics.

I mean when 1-test powder is available, etc. I think that's hardly a PH anymore---to me thats an anabolic. Both PH's and anabolics are horomones that you're putting into your body. Just my $.02.

Forget 1-Test powder...with all the new methylated PH's available, we are really about 1 half step off the "real thing." Although, all PHs will be gone soon anyway and will end up sold in the same way steroids are...black market!

 

[M.J.H.]

I hope so gopro, I think that they absolutely should be.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by MonStar
I hope so gopro, I think that they absolutely should be.

Oh, they will...and that makes me happy actually!

 

[M.J.H.]

Same here man.

Have you ever dabbed into PH's or are you completely natural? Hormone / anabolic free?

 

[builtincary]

I'm all natural. no juice for me.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by MonStar
Same here man.

Have you ever dabbed into PH's or are you completely natural? Hormone / anabolic free?

Oh, I've done a few cycles of PHs, yes, however, I do not rely on them at all. My first PH cycle occurred after training for about 14 years on nothing but vitamins, protein powder, glutamine, and creatine. Right now I only use them whem testing a new product for VPX, but when they are gone, that won't be an issue anymore either.

 

[Flex]

Originally posted by MonStar
What kind of PH cycle did you do? And what kind of anabolic cycle did you do? It seems that people who have done a trasdermal PH cycle get effects very similar to that of anabolics.

Bro, they are NOTHING alike.

Ph's dont put 10-15lb on you in 3 weeks and make your strength go through the roof.

i took 1-AD, and it was ok, but nothing like the real thing.

 

[x~factor]

All natural here. No reason to try the other stuff... yet.

 

[maniclion]

You are not natural unless you hunt and gather your food every day, your workout consists of hauling firewood, dead animals, water or other things necessary for survival. Because lifting weights isn't exactly a natural thing to do and buying your food at the store isn't either, even if it is organic.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by maniclion
You are not natural unless you hunt and gather your food every day, your workout consists of hauling firewood, dead animals, water or other things necessary for survival. Because lifting weights isn't exactly a natural thing to do and buying your food at the store isn't either, even if it is organic.

And typing that response on your computer REALLY isn't natural! You should've sent this via smoke signals!! LOL!

 

[M.J.H.]

Bro, they are NOTHING alike.

Ph's dont put 10-15lb on you in 3 weeks and make your strength go through the roof.

i took 1-AD, and it was ok, but nothing like the real thing.

Hmm, I guess everyone's gains are different. Even if the gains are not the same, no one bases your natural status on how well your gains were on your cycle. The bottom line is that you have taken anabolics, and therefore are not considered natural. And in my eyes if you have taken prohoromones, youre not considered natural. Just my $.02.

Honestly, to me, personally, someone who has taken PH's may not be completely unnatural, but definitely close.

 

[Flex]

Originally posted by MonStar
The bottom line is that if you have taken anabolics, and therefore are not considered natural. And in my eyes if you have taken prohoromones, youre not considered natural. Just my $.02.

i agree with you 100%.

but my point was that Ph's and steroids are not even apples and oranges. its more like apples and spaghettio's

 

[M.J.H.]

Haha, yeah Flex I agree. The more I research the more I can definitely agree with you more and more. It just seems with the transdermal PH's and 1-test powder and M1T it would be closer and closer to anabolics.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by MonStar
Haha, yeah Flex I agree. The more I research the more I can definitely agree with you more and more. It just seems with the transdermal PH's and 1-test powder and M1T it would be closer and closer to anabolics.

All of the new methylated PH/PS coming out are really so close to steroids that anyone who uses them is really putting their toes on the line that seperates PH from real gear.

That is why I coined the term OTC bodybuilder to more properly describe what most "naturals" truly are.

 

[Arnold]

M1T is not close to being an anabolic steroid, it is.

 

[OceanDude]

Hmm, must have missed the original thread and got woke up to it on the re-bump.

I consider myself ???Natural??? but can understand the reasoning Gopro uses in making the OTC distinction.

I use multi vitamins, multi species proteins, amino formulas (during workouts), isolated anti-oxidants (C, ALA, E etc.), isolated single aminos (glutamine, arganine), essential oil formulas as well as CLA, creatine, natural testos supporters (garlic pills), insulin inducers (maltodextrin, fast carbs or occasionally some cla/synthetic insulin booster products), occasionally a fat loss support systems (e.g. HOT Roxx, etc.) but usually green tea, liver tablets and lots and lots of ultra filtered water.

In my view this is all natural since everything except the fat loss systems are natural components found in normal foods but are more concentrated forms. I can get more beneficial results by eating less volume this way. The only thing that is grey area is creatine since a person would have to eat a truck load of grass fed beef to get this much naturally occurring creatine.

OD

 

[OceanDude]

Originally posted by gopro
All of the new methylated PH/PS coming out are really so close to steroids that anyone who uses them is really putting their toes on the line that seperates PH from real gear.

That is why I coined the term OTC bodybuilder to more properly describe what most "naturals" truly are.

gopro can you recommend any of these products? Are they safe? I do not want to do injections etc. but might want to consider an option since at my age my hormone production is starting to back off.

-OD

 

[Johnnny]

I've always trained natural. I wasted about $1200 in 2000 on supplements thatw were garbage & didn't even produce some results.

I've been tempted by teammates & friends with steroids many times but turned them down consistantly.

Personally I think I'm an okay size & have some descent power for my natural size & height. I was about 10lbs heavier in 2001 with descent definition at around 227lbs at 5ft9 & had a 34inch waist (large hip bones) & never took steroids. I'm now about 210lbs with descent definition & power but not the same power I had before the ephedrine/ephedra supplements caused my hyper thyroid problems & lost about 25lbs in a month.

I see guys that take steroids that are still smaller & weaker than myself & other buddies of mine who train completely natural. But I've come to terms that ppl will take steroids even recreationally just to be bigger/better. & we know there will always be someone who is bigger/better/faster & stronger than us. But the real question is how big & strong would ppl who use steroids actually be without them? I'm sure there will be some who are still strong & would hold good size but nothing like they would when they're on steroids.

I personally believe no offense to any steroid users here that my health is more important. We all know that steroids will have an negative effect on our health at some point in our lives. My buddy is having one now with increased blood pressure at 28yrs old as a direct cause from the juice as the doctor ran some tests to prove it. He never drank in huge dosages or did party drugs. He ate very well & had no family history of high blood pressure & always got enough sleep except for the occasional night or 2 a month.

I mean look at the late great Walter Payton of the Bears. It was known that he used a large amount of steroids. He died of liver cancer at the age of 45yrs old. What's one of the first things that steroids attack? The liver, & what happened to him at his young age for someone who is healthy is not normal.

Some of my friends don't want to accept that steroids are bad for your health, but now they're realizing as one of our friends is having strange high blood pressure which is caused by steroids. I've researched & read a lot into steroids & the effects they have.
One other friend quit last year because his b@lls had shrunk down to a the size of a pea & couldn't get it up. He had this problem even after cycles were finished & he almost lost his now fiance. Another friend went completely bald. I don't think it's worth it.

A part of me really wanted to know how big & strong I could be with the right drugs. I was about 227lbs with already descent power/definition, I guess I could've gotten to 250 or 240lbs at my 5ft9 height. That would be huge at my height. But in the end it's not worth it.

But I won't tell you what to do as I'm not your mother or father.

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by OceanDude
gopro can you recommend any of these products? Are they safe? I do not want to do injections etc. but might want to consider an option since at my age my hormone production is starting to back off.

-OD

OD I recommend that you read this thread: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27368

as far as OTC supps, when you're talking about M1T and Methyl-D I don't care if they're still "legal", they are anabolic steroids and if you take them you are NOT natural.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
OD I recommend that you read this thread: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27368

as far as OTC supps, when you're talking about M1T and Methyl-D I don't care if they're still "legal", they are anabolic steroids and if you take them you are NOT natural.

So you no longer consider yourself "natural" Prince?

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by gopro
So you no longer consider yourself "natural" Prince?

No, do you?

M1T is an anabolic steroid, it may be legal but that does not take away from that fact.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
No, do you?

M1T is an anabolic steroid, it may be legal but that does not take away from that fact.

Never did really. I consider the use of caffeine, ephedra, usnic acid, T2, and even creatine non-natural. I call myself an OTC bodybuilder. I still compete in "natural" shows though, but abide by their banned list. I don't use prohormones too much anyway, but as soon as they are banned I am through with them as I will remain OTC unless I decided one day to completely "cross over."

 

[Johnnny]

cool.

 

[rockcrest]

this poll could have been simplified. do you take steroids?
no 
yes 

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by gopro
Never did really. I consider the use of caffeine, ephedra, usnic acid, T2, and even creatine non-natural. I call myself an OTC bodybuilder. I still compete in "natural" shows though, but abide by their banned list. I don't use prohormones too much anyway, but as soon as they are banned I am through with them as I will remain OTC unless I decided one day to completely "cross over."

that is just semantics, if we are speaking "natural" in terms of hormones, i.e. anabolic steroids, (that is typically what we mean when we use the term natural, not using caffeine and creatine), anyone that has used 1-Test, M1T or Methyl-D is no longer natural.

Now using prohormones, i.e. 1-AD & 4-AD, technically I think someone can still call themselves natural since PH's require a conversion before they're an active hormones, without the conversion they are useless.

Obviously we can debate this natural thing up and down, forwards and backwards and never conclude anything, but I think it's agreeable to say someone is natural if they do not use "anabolic steroids" (legal versions (M1T) or illegal versions), and if you've used creatine you're still considered natural.

From your posts I believe I remember you saying you have used M1T, 1-Test, etc. in your VPX testing, correct? If so, you're no longer natural, you can still say you're an OTC bodybuilder if that makes you happy, but not natural. You have now put real anabolic hormones into your body (not precursors) actual anabolic steroids, hence you're not natural.

At least that is how I define natural and I think most people would agree.

 

[V Player]

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
that is just semantics, .... but I think it's agreeable to say someone is natural if they do not use "anabolic steroids" (legal versions (M1T) or illegal versions), and if you've used creatine you're still considered natural...At least that is how I define natural and I think most people would agree.

Yup. 100%.

Just out of curiousity, besides the web, where can I find information on these anabolics you're talking about, Prince? Knowledge is power, I always say.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by Robert DiMaggio
that is just semantics, if we are speaking "natural" in terms of hormones, i.e. anabolic steroids, (that is typically what we mean when we use the term natural, not using caffeine and creatine), anyone that has used 1-Test, M1T or Methyl-D is no longer natural.

Now using prohormones, i.e. 1-AD & 4-AD, technically I think someone can still call themselves natural since PH's require a conversion before they're an active hormones, without the conversion they are useless.

Obviously we can debate this natural thing up and down, forwards and backwards and never conclude anything, but I think it's agreeable to say someone is natural if they do not use "anabolic steroids" (legal versions (M1T) or illegal versions), and if you've used creatine you're still considered natural.

From your posts I believe I remember you saying you have used M1T, 1-Test, etc. in your VPX testing, correct? If so, you're no longer natural, you can still say you're an OTC bodybuilder if that makes you happy, but not natural. You have now put real anabolic hormones into your body (not precursors) actual anabolic steroids, hence you're not natural.

At least that is how I define natural and I think most people would agree.

Nope, its not semantics at all since there are other compounds in the body that contribute in some way to muscle growth or fat loss. I consider caffeine, ephedrine, T2, yohimbine, usnic acid, prohormones, and prosteroids to be "unnatural" substances. If you want to argue "degrees" of non-naturalness, than you can go right ahead. Putting 25-30 g of creatine in your body cannot be accomplished naturally, and neither can the supraphysiological amounts of amino acids that are taken by some. A true "natural" eats food and trains...thats it. That is MY opinion and the way I view it...you can view it your way, and I, mine.

Now, as far a 1-Test goes, and its more potent methylated cousin, yes, many consider them anabolic steroids, and I will not argue it. However, I can still compete in several "natural" organizations and use products as long as they are OTC...therefore, according to them, both you and I and all the people that have used M 1-T and even regular 1-Test are still considered natural to some. So, it depends on how you look at it from many respects.

I am an OTC bodybuilder and will only use substances that can be purchased in a health food store, but will not use any substance banned by an organization that I compete with. AS long as you follow the rules, you are ok with me.