Need some opinions

[buening]

Hey all! Been on the routine below for about 12 weeks. My main goal is to gain mass, but strength gains that come with it is always good I'm 24yrs, 5'8" , 172lb and approximately 18%BF (mainly love handles from beer at college). Looking for some suggestions on if i should change the routine and what would be suggested. Been working out for the past year and a half, but only seriously within the past 12 weeks. Let me know what you think and suggest. I'm sure there will be a comment about the small amount of legwork, which I will have more incorporated into the next routine. I've read a millions stickies from all forums and have a pretty good grasp on things, just looking for other's opinions. My current routine:

Mon: Back/Biceps
Deads 3x10,8,6
BB Bent Rows 3x12,8,6
Hammer Grip Chins 3x6
Stiff arm pressdowns 2x12,8 (really finishes off the lats)
EZ Bar Curls 3x12,8,6
Hammer DB Spider Curls 2x10,6 (depending on energy level)

Wed: Chest/Triceps
Flat BB Bench 4x12,8,6,4
Decline BB Bench 3x12,8,6
Incline DB Bench 3x12,8,6
DB Flies 2x12,8
Rope cable Pressdowns 3x10,8,6
Dips 3x8

Fri: Legs/Shoulders
Squats 4x12,8,6,4
Leg Press 4x12,8,6,4
Calf Raises on smith machine 3x25,18,12 (great for isolating the calves)
Sitting BB shoulder press 4x12,8,6,4
Vert BB Rows 3x12,8,6
Trap Bar Shrugs 3x15,12,10
Front/Lateral DB Raises 2x12,8


I have been slowly increasing in weights (takes 3 weeks for gains) but lately the gains have slowed. What is a typical period for strength gains for you guys? I know it varies greatly, but just curious what a norm is. Fridays are normally a long workout, but i don't work that day so it normally works out fine. I'm considering separating the friday workout into two separate days and do a Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri routine. Tips and suggestions please, and this is quite an informative forum! Glad i found it

Also, most weights are pyramid i.e. 1x65x12, 1x70x10, 1x75x8 with exception to EZ curls and rope pushdowns which are reverse pyramids.

 

[buening]

I guess for those "picky", my tempo stays around 2020 and rest is 30-45 seconds but up to a minute for more taxing ones like deads and squats. Ab work is done on Tues and Thurs before cardio.

Anyone??

Maybe i'll try some German Volume Training

 

[vortrit]

I believe decline and flat benching are pretty much targeting the same thing.

 

[Gazhole]

I wouldnt use a bodypart split or pyramiding your reps. Why did you choose those methods out of curiosity?

It pretty much looks like a Push/Pull/Legs split with a different name. You could put the shoulder exercises with your other presses.

I dont understand the pyramiding, and theres a bit too much pressing as opposed to pulling for upper body, and definitely not enough hip/ham dominant work going on.

A lot of those exercises i think could be dropped without too much trouble. Like you have at least 3 variations of the bench press in there. Why?

Its not the worst thats been posted here, but it could do with a size-able overhaul.

Even though you've read a lot before on other forums, read the stickies in this section aswell. I promise they will be a well of excellent information on how to set up many aspects of your training.

Welcome to IM, also.

 

[buening]

Pyramiding weight and reps is just how i've been taught for awhile, and it seems everyone at my gym follow the same type of workout (doing one set, adding weight and doing another set). That doesn't make it correct though, which is why i posted this so someone could critique this. My way of thinking is to get the best of both worlds as far as strength and mass. This would involve high and low rep sets, thus the 12, 8, and 6 reps sets. In order to do this, the weight must be increased from the previous set otherwise it will be close to a 12, 12, 12 set with the same weight (minus a one or two from fatigue). I guess the term progressive overload could be used? I've also seen a lot of strength gain and minimal plateau from doing this. It seems there are a million ways of doing things like doing all sets with the same weight, doing 5x5's, 10x3's, etc.

I found this split with the shoulders on leg day on a few bodybuilding.com articles. The four day split give the shoulders their own day (push/pull/shoulders/leg) but i chose the three day split due to my job schedule.

Regarding the comment about too much pressing compared to pulling, there are 4 exercises for chest and 4 exercises for back, or are you considering shoulder work as well? My goal was to keep each workout as balanced as possible. Maybe doing flat, decline, and incline presses is too much of the same. I agree with the comment regarding legs and knew a comment was coming. Again, looking for tips and suggestions.

I'll reread the stickies on this forum again. I've read this forum's stickies, the ones on bodybuilding.com forum, as well as anabolic minds and T-nation.

 

[buening]

Also read Testosterone Nation - The Wave Loading Manifesto

I have found that doing the same weight for all three sets allow too frequent plateaus. Changing the weight and reps keeps the body guessing. Not sure, maybe i'm not thinking clearly

 

[Ronald]

i used to pretty much do the same work out when i first started and i liked it, the only difference was i did 2 calf exercises, smith and seated calf raises, slight more reps too

 

[buening]

I wouldnt use a bodypart split or pyramiding your reps. Why did you choose those methods out of curiosity?

I dont understand the pyramiding

Here are a few other posts from another forum with discussion on pyramiding. I guess mine isn't a "true" pyramid but rather a front slope pyramid. A true pyramid would decrease in weight once the peak weight is reached. I'm curious what you, P-funk, and others have to say about this versus straight sets.

Pyramiding vs same weight sets - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Reverse pyramiding. Anybody try this? - Bodybuilding.com Forums

 

[Gazhole]

Pyramiding weight and reps is just how i've been taught for awhile, and it seems everyone at my gym follow the same type of workout (doing one set, adding weight and doing another set). That doesn't make it correct though, which is why i posted this so someone could critique this. My way of thinking is to get the best of both worlds as far as strength and mass. This would involve high and low rep sets, thus the 12, 8, and 6 reps sets. In order to do this, the weight must be increased from the previous set otherwise it will be close to a 12, 12, 12 set with the same weight (minus a one or two from fatigue). I guess the term progressive overload could be used? I've also seen a lot of strength gain and minimal plateau from doing this. It seems there are a million ways of doing things like doing all sets with the same weight, doing 5x5's, 10x3's, etc.

Mass is about what you eat rather than a specific rep range, though there are rep ranges that induce more hypertrophy that others.

A better way to do it would be to periodize in some way. Rather than trying to pull in many directions at once during a session, have either set days, weeks, or training phases that focus on a specific goal.

So youd have a conditioning phase (high reps, low rest intervals, trisets/supersets); a hypertrophy phase (mid reps, mid rest intervals, basically repeated effort stuff); and then a strength phase (low reps, 1rm attempts, long rest intervals etc).

Obviously thats just a linear way of periodizing but there are other ways. These are mentioned in the stickies here, rather than me repeat them, lol.

I found this split with the shoulders on leg day on a few bodybuilding.com articles. The four day split give the shoulders their own day (push/pull/shoulders/leg) but i chose the three day split due to my job schedule.

Regarding the comment about too much pressing compared to pulling, there are 4 exercises for chest and 4 exercises for back, or are you considering shoulder work as well? My goal was to keep each workout as balanced as possible. Maybe doing flat, decline, and incline presses is too much of the same. I agree with the comment regarding legs and knew a comment was coming. Again, looking for tips and suggestions.

Stop thinking in terms of bodyparts!

Just follow these rules - If you move the weight away from you its a push, if you bring it towards you its a pull. Thats pretty basic and not entirely accurate sometimes, but it helps me out, lol.

Most pushing movements (bench, dips etc) rely heavily on the shoulders, though arent usually considered "shoulder" movements. By putting them on a separate day, you're leaving them open to overtraining. Plus in that split you have 3/4 of the program dedicated to upper body.

Lump shoulders together with your other pressing, and have two leg days - push + pull.

If you need some exercises then go for it, everybody loves suggesting exercises, haha.

I'll reread the stickies on this forum again. I've read this forum's stickies, the ones on bodybuilding.com forum, as well as anabolic minds and T-nation.

Tis a good call. I dunno about the stickies on the other forums, but the ones here are top notch

Hope any of this helps.