Need To Blast My Arms

[ActionMatt]

Maybe you misunderstand me-- most of my info comes from strength coaches who's time in the trenches IS most of the current scientific literature. Their empirical experience in coaching many sports was also translated into research.

Granted, my sources don't entirely disagree with you, and neither do I. I just think there are a lot better ways to do things than to worry oneself with what limited "shaping" effect might be available. The switching exercises thing doesn't bother me as much; I don't think its a large an issue, though the reasoning behind it seems somewhat flawed.

All in all, I guess my biggest beef is with the Guru attitude- listen to me and no one else. I don't like that at all. Presenting a viewpoint is one thing, but trying to present yourself as infallible and far more experienced than anyone else is something I always argue with. I understand you've got some financial stake in this as well, but even so, I don't like the listen to me because I'm right and you're wrong attitude.

 

[Scotty the Body]

I believe the topic is Need To Blast My Arms Lets keep our comments on that please.

 

[bubbasr]

Boy did I open a can of worms or what? All I said was read any and every thing to get some ideas or routines that people have used. Right now I am doing one of Jay Cutlers Shoulder workout's.

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by ActionMatt
Maybe you misunderstand me-- most of my info comes from strength coaches who's time in the trenches IS most of the current scientific literature. Their empirical experience in coaching many sports was also translated into research.

Granted, my sources don't entirely disagree with you, and neither do I. I just think there are a lot better ways to do things than to worry oneself with what limited "shaping" effect might be available. The switching exercises thing doesn't bother me as much; I don't think its a large an issue, though the reasoning behind it seems somewhat flawed.

All in all, I guess my biggest beef is with the Guru attitude- listen to me and no one else. I don't like that at all. Presenting a viewpoint is one thing, but trying to present yourself as infallible and far more experienced than anyone else is something I always argue with. I understand you've got some financial stake in this as well, but even so, I don't like the listen to me because I'm right and you're wrong attitude.

Action Matt...
-I have NO financial stake in this whatsoever. Mt training business has nothing to do with this site at all. Nothing I write has one iota to do with making money.
-Although there are many that like to call me a "guru," I just laugh at it. I never said I am infallible or allknowing...who do you think that I think I am..Paul Stagg or something?
-Yes, I know my stuff, but I am still learning just like any other "expert" on this earth.

for you Scotty: blast those arms!

 

[ZECH]

Strength training and bodybuilding are two entirely different aspects, with different exercises. Scotty, how are the arms going????

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by bubbasr
Right now I am doing one of Jay Cutlers Shoulder workout's.

We need a thumbs down emicon. This really is the worst thing you could do man.

Oh and dg906:

"Strength training and bodybuilding are two entirely different aspects, with different exercises"


They're not as different as you'd think bro.

 

[Neil]

Originally posted by bubbasr
Right now I am doing one of Jay Cutlers Shoulder workout's.

I agree with Chicken, I think this is a bad idea. I'm assuming it's probably 16-20 sets and will work if you only train shoulders once a week and no other bodyparts. Jay Cutler is HIGHLY drug enhanced and his and other pro's workouts are not suited for the average joe. Don't make the same mistake I did when I started lifting by attempting these routines. Stick to a low volume/high intensity routine and you will grow. If I hadn't wasted so much time trying the musclemag stuff I would probably be 10-15 lbs. bigger and much stronger by now. I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching but I just hate to see someone make the same mistake I made. I wish someone had told me this when I was a newbie.

 

[Neil]

Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
Oh and dg906:

"Strength training and bodybuilding are two entirely different aspects, with different exercises"


They're not as different as you'd think bro.

I also agree with this, there is a difference although it is very minor.

 

[Mystic Eric]

Mr. Pro, do not get me wrong, you have an awesome physique. Truly awesome. However, just to prove you wrong about something, I'll have to go back to your latest pic:

You said in the Q&A that in your experience, there's you have added to your "upper" chest. You also said:
"Over time this can develop into what I call "droopy pec syndrome." Although it has been hottly debated in the field of exercise as to whether the clavicular pectoralis can be selectively targeted, it is my experience that various forms of the incline press will indeed help fill in this portion of the chest."

Ok, according to basic physiology, you can't make your "upper" chest grow more than your "lower." You preach that your "real world" experience proves that you can indeed target your upper chest. Fine, let's go by your experience... But it seems to me in that pic that you don't have an "upper chest" and if anything, your "lower chest" is larger. This makes your comment about using inclines to target upper chest false. So if basic physiology inferrs that the upper chest cannot be isolated, and your experience shows it, we have to conclude that one cannot "isolate" the upper chest.

Btw Mr. Pro, I have the highest respect for you. It's just that some of your views are flawed. Good luck with your contest.

Prince, I want to know something, what are your stats, and how much can you deadlift, squat, and bench in legal fashion?

 

[gopro]

Thank you M Eric for the compliments, however, this picture is one in which you cannot judge my upper chest. Because of the angle of the pic and the fact that my pec was completely relaxed, you can't make that determination. If you saw a pic of a side chest shot, you would see how well my lower and upper chest are balanced. Also, I would like to point out that although I know a certain amount of muscle shaping IS POSSIBLE, it is NOT UNLIMITED. It can only be done within your own genetic limitations. PERFECT balance may never be achieved, but in order to get the best balance possible FOR YOU, multiple grips, angles, and exercises ARE needed.

 

[gopro]

By the way, if you wish to see an old...I think 99 also, side chest shot, I'll ask Prince to post one. I don't really like the pic, but it does give you a more accurate shot of my chest.

 

[ZECH]

Originally posted by dg806
Strength training and bodybuilding are two entirely different aspects, with different exercises.

OK...let me rephrase it a little bit. If you want to gain strength, do you do exercises the same way you would if you want to gain size? Read my sig line!!

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by dg806


OK...let me rephrase it a little bit. If you want to gain strength, do you do exercises the same way you would if you want to gain size? Read my sig line!!

They will jump on you for that too...trust me my friend

 

[ZECH]

That's ok! What do you think GP??

 

[ZECH]

I truely believe strictness and form mean more than how much your able to do!

 

[gopro]

Although lifting more weight in perfect form is important, it is only one of many factors that can contribute to hypertrophy. And as your lifting career goes on, lifting heavy becomes less important.

 

[ZECH]

Originally posted by gopro
. And as your lifting career goes on, lifting heavy becomes less important.

Why is this??

 

[gopro]

Originally posted by dg806


Why is this??

Well, evetually you will reach a genetic limitation as far as strength goes. Also, at some point your connective tissue simply will not tolerate the heavy beating that max weights give. At this point you will need to find other ways to overload the muscles to stimulate hypertrophy gains. I do not lift quite as heavy now as I did years ago, but I keep gaining size. I use other stategies now to keep growing.

 

[Neil]

Originally posted by gopro


They will jump on you for that too...trust me my friend

Well I'm not going to jump on anyone. I'm only speaking from my experience. I just recently completed a 10 week strength training cycle and I gained 4lbs of LBM, and managed to drop 6lbs of fat at the same time. I do think they are different, but not THAT different. If you are talking about an all out powerlifting routine then yes there is a fairly large difference, but to just increase strength in general I think the difference is small. Now in the case of a very advanced trainee like yourself I think you are right about pounages becoming less important. But for the beginner to intermediate trainee the best way to monitor gains is through monitoring progression.

 

[gopro]

Absolutely Neil...thats why I said EVENTUALLY. It will take at least 10 years to get to that point. However, I do think that trainees get too caught up in the numbers game. They will sacrifice form for weight and/or will perform the reps too quickly, using momentum rather than creating TENSION in the muscle. People also must remember that sets that only contain 1-5 reps WILL not create much muscle...hypertrophy is gained with higher time under tension. Although, I do advocate periods of pure power training.

 

[ActionMatt]

Originally posted by gopro
Absolutely Neil...thats why I said EVENTUALLY. It will take at least 10 years to get to that point. However, I do think that trainees get too caught up in the numbers game.

Physical loading (weight) is the basis of muscular growth. I'd say watching the numbers is a good idea.

They will sacrifice form for weight and/or will perform the reps too quickly, using momentum rather than creating TENSION in the muscle.

While I agree that cheating is a bad thing, you're assessment of momentum vs. tension is wrong. Momentum is mass*velocity; its present in any muscle action that isn't isometric. Tension is force produced by the muscle. Even if an excessive level of momentum propels the weight, what generated that momentum? Muscular tension.

Don't forget that ballistic methods have been shown to generate considerable hypertrophy, including in myself.

People also must remember that sets that only contain 1-5 reps WILL not create much muscle...hypertrophy is gained with higher time under tension.

Then why has it been shown in Olympic lifters that use multiple sets of 1-3 reps can create significant hypertrophy? Why could I go into the gym and perform sets of 5 at 75% of my max in a lift and grow (which I've done)?

Sorry to doubt you, but I've been involved in a detailed discussion with Dr. Siff about this very topic recently, and some interesting points where raised.......there is a minimal threshold tension required in the TUT theory, but the minimal time value seems to either decrease as tension increases, or is a cumulative value of all sets.

We haven't come to anything conclusive about *why* this happens, though my speculation was that it has to do with ATP depletion and the consequential fatigue in the highest-threshold MU's which are involved in heavy ballistic loading.

This doesn't necessarily mean heavy weight, either-- accelerating a weight also creates tension (hence throwing the momentum argument out the window), and apparently it can be significant enough to cause hypertrophy.

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by ActionMatt
[Don't forget that ballistic methods have been shown to generate considerable hypertrophy, including in myself.

So how come you're such a skinny bitch?


haha nice post.

 

[gopro]

Action Matt...you know what? I have decided you are right...about everything! I really have no idea what I'm talking about. I really have no idea how to gain muscle. I mean, I've only gained 130 lbs of lean body mass since I started...maybe if I started listening to you I could put on some real muscle...

...oh boy, don't you think this is getting old...

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Arm growth is a mystery. Some grow from heavy Benches and back work only while others grow from a volume Bodybuilding routine. Much of the advice that has been given makes scientific sense but ,in all actuality, you must find what works for you and remember to work out very hard.

 

[Neil]

Action Matt eh........if you are who I think you are I can't help but wonder why you don't use your normal username.

 

[ActionMatt]

Gopro-- So, now you're slipping into personal arguments again. I was just presenting an alternate viewpoint. But, if your experience conflicts with basic physiology, I apologize and will stop posting facts.

Why don't you contribute your experience to the publishers of physiology texts so that they can correct the errors?

 

[Neil]

I'd listen to an experienced lifter before I listened to some 130 physio.

 

[gopro]

Maybe I will

 

[ActionMatt]

Neil-- why are you making the assumption that the sources I quote are stereotypical 130 lb science geeks in lab coats?

Most strength researchers are avid lifters themselves, with many being quite accomplished. Exercise science is a different field, in that it tends to attract those that already have some interest in weight training. I think you'd be suprised at how many of these pencil-neck geeks as you put it would be able to pick you up and break you in half.

 

[Robboe]

Originally posted by ActionMatt
Why don't you contribute your experience to the publishers of physiology texts so that they can correct the errors?

I lmao@this.

That is all.