No belt?

[Jim1954]

I seem to be reading the past couple of years that using a weight belt is not beneficial at least in training.
I don't use one any more, and concentrate on very strict form, I believe this has had some benefits especially coming off a back injury a few months ago. I have just gone a week with no pain, after squats and doing dead lifts on my back day. I think it has strengthened a lot of muscles in my lower back, since I have quit using one.When ever I do go to a gym, I still see almost everyone still using belts doing squats etc. I
Any thoughts or opinions on the belt?

Jim

 

[OceanDude]

I use the lifting belt a lot less than I use to. It???s frankly a pain in the butt to have to drag around in the gym just to have it for the few that I still use it for. I only use it for a very few exercises like very heavy behind back shrugs, and overhead presses of any kind and funny enough on heavy triceps pushdowns & bicep curling exercises. I find that when I wear the belt with bicep curls and triceps it forces me to stand erect and keep my form good. I discovered this after I took myself out for a week when I pulled a back muscle badly after cheating ever so slightly on a prior bicep curl day with no belt. I also use it for standing calf raises when I use the machine to once again keep my back straight (previously pulled a back muscle on this one also when using the full stack and getting slightly out of line). So mostly I use it for those things that I know I have hurt myself on before.

FYI, I use to use the lifting belt for squats and the like but got fed up with the restrictive and binding feeling it gave me and it tended to restrict my range of motion.

 

[Mudge]

I stopped using the belt, first on back days - then eventually I dropped it on leg days too.

If you train your lower back and your abs like you should be doing, then I think you do not need it, its a crutch like straps.

 

[P-funk]

If you train your lower back and your abs like you should be doing, then I think you do not need it, its a crutch like straps.

I agree abou the belt being a crutch (it also raises your blood pressure pretty high. Which may be a concern for some people). But do you really think the straps are a crutch?? I go back and forth on this. Lets take an exercise like traps or bent over row. My muscles are way stringer than my grip is so does that mean that I don't use the straps and do ligther weight for more reps because I can;t hold onto the heavier weight long enough to fatigue the muscle?? Or should I use the wraps and the heavy weight and continue to work on my grip?? I don;t know, I can;t decide. But I don't like using ligther weight when I know that I can do better.

 

[Mudge]

When I do regular forearm training, I dont need straps for anything. I dont even do farmers walks, I have done plate grabs but not regularly.

I can start to lose my grip doing traps work, thats about it, but I never have had to drop my weights and quit because of it.

 

[OceanDude]

On Traps I absolutely use the straps - I don't have the time to spend on seperate grip development and I am not going to drop 150 lbs on my shrugs to gain a little more grip strength. No way. My grip strength is coming up slowly through indirect exercises. I also find I can get about 20 lbs more on my lat pull downs with the straps - this is not as much a grip issue as it is being able to focus more on pulling with the lats rather than the shoulder and arms - I can simply feel the isolation better.

 

[Nate]

Originally posted by OceanDude
On Traps I absolutely use the straps - I don't have the time to spend on seperate grip development and I am not going to drop 150 lbs on my shrugs to gain a little more grip strength. No way. My grip strength is coming up slowly through indirect exercises. I also find I can get about 20 lbs more on my lat pull downs with the straps - this is not as much a grip issue as it is being able to focus more on pulling with the lats rather than the shoulder and arms - I can simply feel the isolation better.

I find that with a reverse grip I can easily hold 100 more pounds. Give that a shot.

 

[gr81]

I agree that people put way too much emphasise on the belt. I see people walkin around using a leather belt while doing chest.!?
I only use the belt when going really heavy on the squat, other wise I recocnise the importance of building the stabilizing muscles of the back.

 

[Mudge]

My gym allows no belt on any equipment that you sit or lay on, but I've seen people do that in other gyms. They must not be breathing that hard.

 

[gr81]

its ridiculous. I saw a guy with a belt while he was squating on the smith machine. The best part about that was tha he had on 4 plates and was doing about a quarter rep, all the whilke he was screaming aloud for us all to hear. haha

 

[P-funk]

I find that with a reverse grip I can easily hold 100 more pounds. Give that a shot.

A reverse grip pull down works a sligthly different musculature than a wide grip pull down. A reverse grip pull down requires sagital plane extension of the shoulder while wide grip pull downs are a movement in the frontal plane (adduction of the shoulder).

 

[RCfootball87]

I use the belt only for free squats so I can go heavy.

 

[mda1125]

I use whatever tech-gear necessary to do the job..

Belts, gloves, supplements, food, straps.. I don't care.

Used properly of course.

I wouldn't use a oil filter wrench to change the coaxial cable on the back of my TV.. (belt used for benching analogy).

But for shrugs? That's like changing the oil filter on your car by hand. While some of you could do it.. makes no sense when I have a wrench next to me (straps) and the end result is.. I want a new filter (traps).. grip strength is used in all kinds of exercises.

I would totally drop the weight trying to shrug 315-405lbs.. but I can do 6-12 reps nicely, in good form. Without straps, I consider it a dis-service to my traps.

Everybody has their opinions. And that's fine. I just see all this gear as technical methods to an end results.. Bigger this.. bigger that, more in shape.. toner this..

Use your stuff. But use it properly and for the job it was intended to be used for.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by mda1125
I would totally drop the weight trying to shrug 315-405lbs.. but I can do 6-12 reps nicely, in good form. Without straps, I consider it a dis-service to my traps.

I have no problems holding that and I dont have monsterous forearms.

 

[mda1125]

Do you have any trouble gaining weight? (bulk phase)

I'm going somewhere with this.. I swear

 

[Mudge]

If your having problems gaining weight, eat more, and I have no problems eating more - I have problems eating less.

 

[mda1125]

I don't.

Point is..

Individuals are all different.. and general rules like belts and straps are crutches just don't work.

If used improperly, yes. But I can't hold 315+ doing a shrug. So straps work for me.. you don't need them cool.

I use tech gear to it's full advantage.. just as I would use a wetsuit when diving..

 

[Mudge]

If you never take the training wheels off your bike, to learn to ride without them, they will be with you forever.

 

[mda1125]

Training wheels are a learning device..

Tech gear is not.

If you know how to squat (in a cage) with good form.. then you can use a belt or not.. and it probably makes little to no difference.

But to say a belt or any type of gear is a crutch? I think not.

 

[Mudge]

Looks like we agree to disagree

The body should adapt to its environment, and its stresses incurred.

 

[gr81]

mudge is absolutely right MDA, those devices ARE a crutch. It is important to develop the stabilizing muscles involved in the back and wearing a belt takes that away from you during the exercise. Straps are the same way, you say your forearms give out before your traps, well using straps that is only going to perpetuate more of an imbalance, you need to let your body adapt instead of using these things. What happens when you work your squat up there, your likeliness of injury increases greatly b/c your lower back hasn't built up the kind of support it needs to deal with that weight. Things like wraps, belts, benching shirts and such should be used during times when the reps are very low (1-3). Think of it as having a weak link in the chain, if one link is weak then all is ruined, it is exactly the same with the powerlifting. Trust, we know what we are talking about.

 

[Jim1954]

It appears my question has brought up some interesting discussion.
As for the belt, it took me awhile to get used to doing squats and dead lifts
without one. I believe it took the stabilizing muscles time to develop, and now I am starting to add more weight to both. My back actually feels better, after doing squats and dead lifts.

When your 48 years old, any weak links show up quick, and hopefully they don't keep you down long.

I don't use straps either, but I'm not going to say I will never use them, at this point I haven't developed enough strength to need them, wish I did.
Which reminds me, I need to do heavier trap work, glad this was brought
up!

Thanks for all the input.

Jim

 

[Mudge]

I didn't stop using my belt till probably 9 months ago or so, that was the last thing to get rid of. I got rid of the straps around 2 years ago.

 

[Nate]

To be honest I don't know how I hold the weight i do...my forearms are tiny...

 

[Mudge]

Strength and size are not neccessarily the same thing

I have no idea how big a gators jaw muscles are, but they have exibited clamping forces over 2,000 pounds. They are incredibly strong, and can be quick - but have very, very low endurance.

 

[OceanDude]

Originally posted by mda1125
I use whatever tech-gear necessary to do the job..

I would totally drop the weight trying to shrug 315-405lbs.. but I can do 6-12 reps nicely, in good form. Without straps, I consider it a dis-service to my traps.

...
Use your stuff. But use it properly and for the job it was intended to be used for.

I completely agree. I am at 450+ lbs with my shrugs and I need every fiber focused on it. Even with a reverse alternating grip I simply could not control the bar properly. Straps are the only way to go. Funny enough I popped one strap last week and had to buy new ones (only got 6 years out of the old set) and I immediately had to drop the bar. I am convinced I would lose 150 lbs minimum on my shrug without the strap.

 

[OceanDude]

Originally posted by Jim1954
It appears my question has brought up some interesting

...
When your 48 years old, any weak links show up quick, and hopefully they don't keep you down long.
...
Jim

Hey Jim, welcome aboard here - I finally feel like I have some company now. I am 47 (wow ??? where did the last 20 years go?). but since losing weight and gaining substantial muscle I am told by many that I look like 28 or so. I think most here are well under 30, so it's good to have another in my age bracket to make comparisons with. The only problem I am experiencing with age is recovery - I hit it insanely intense in the gym and sometimes when it's time for my next training day for a specific muscle group I have to alternate in a different muscle due to lingering soreness (especially shoulders). But I can report that I am actually at least 50-150% stronger (depending on muscle) now than I have been at any point in my earlier life so its all worth it.

As far as weak link development go here are my thoughts. Since I was so badly out of shape when I got back into this in January I had to manage my time very carefully I initially tried to hit everything and ended up spending 21/2 hrs in the gym - way too long. So from a time perspective I re-focused on the 3 big groups - legs, back chest and some arm/shoulder. My major objective was to develop more muscle mass to help me burn fat; I just wanted bigger metabolic furnaces. This worked very well and my strength came up amazingly fast too. I was also amazed how indirect work brought up my small forearms too (with just a few hammer curls now and then). After a while I worked in calfs and they came up rapidly too (doing full stack now and had to go to single calfs and reduce weight). I neglected lower back and much direct ab work until about 2 months ago and they are coming up very fast now too. I agree about muscle balance comments but sometimes, especially when "you are on a roll" in one or two muscle group I see no problem with just "going for it" for a few months in a few focused muscle areas and then catching up later with other areas like grip strength etc. My symmetry is actually quite good but there are some strength imbalances still that I need to work on still in lower back before I can make substantial progress in squats etc. So in the interim I use hack squats and other things to quite effective benefit.

I have now worked in "exotic" specializations to try and find more mass development opportunities for additional fat burn and for aesthetic purposes. For example, rather than just hitting the typical calf areas like the gastrocnemius I now work on the muscle at the front of the calf called the tibialis aneterior (which almost no one does). I also do some focused work on the soleus which gives more aesthetic balance to the calf. I simply did not have the time previously to do these. Now that I do it's time to catch-up and I don???t feel like I missed anything to put the priorities on the big-3 as I initially did.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by OceanDude
I am convinced I would lose 150 lbs minimum on my shrug without the strap.

So you admit that you are dependant on them which is exactly my point, stop being dependant on them Work your forearms!

 

[Jim1954]

OceanDude,

Yes, I would say recovery is slower as I get older.
I'm a pretty small guy I am 5' 8" and have weighed 180
lbs. At that weight, I looked pretty damn sloppy.
I now weigh 145 lbs, not big by any means, but
have a nice shape. I have cut out a lot of carbs, and
still am managing to make gains, so it appears I'm on the
right track to having myself cut enough for my abs to show.

I'm close to being in the best shape of my life, if people
only knew what a few hours a week could accomplish.

Jim

 

[Mudge]

Way to go