No HCG

[CarguyJB163]

I can't seem to get any HCG from my sources and would like to be starting my Test Enan. and Deca (both QV) cycle next month. It will be the standard 10 week cycle (500/300 split on Mon. and Thurs.) and i have enough nolva and clomid to kill a small elephant, i went kinda over board with that order, never know what can happen.

Just wanted to see ya'lls opinion of starting or not. And where to get some on-line if you can and if it's legal!!!

 

[musclepump]

I'd definitely get some before I started. Check around, it's more of a commodity, but it's there.

 

[Pirate!]

Yep, you should find some before starting. If your sources don't carry it, they should know who does. Seek and ye shall find...

 

[redspy]

Yep, you should find some before starting. If your sources don't carry it, they should know who does. Seek and ye shall find...

What he said. As Deca is so suppressive I wouldn't omit the HCG.

 

[Stu]

I can't seem to get any HCG from my sources and would like to be starting my Test Enan. and Deca (both QV) cycle next month. It will be the standard 10 week cycle (500/300 split on Mon. and Thurs.) and i have enough nolva and clomid to kill a small elephant, i went kinda over board with that order, never know what can happen.

Just wanted to see ya'lls opinion of starting or not. And where to get some on-line if you can and if it's legal!!!

Its not legal but any decent source should stock it

 

[musclepump]

The source I normally use doesn't, but I know a different source that does. Sometimes ya gotta network.

 

[Tough Old Man]

Mexico my friend buy straight from the pharm

 

[CarguyJB163]

i would but too far and i trust my source here guess i'll have to keep looking

 

[LAM]

I can't seem to get any HCG from my sources and would like to be starting my Test Enan. and Deca (both QV) cycle next month. It will be the standard 10 week cycle (500/300 split on Mon. and Thurs.) and i have enough nolva and clomid to kill a small elephant, i went kinda over board with that order, never know what can happen.

Just wanted to see ya'lls opinion of starting or not. And where to get some on-line if you can and if it's legal!!!

isn't this going to be your 1st cycle ? you are better off using the enanthate only for 10 weeks.

 

[Pirate!]

isn't this going to be your 1st cycle ? you are better off using the enanthate only for 10 weeks.

When you say enanthate only, you don't mean without HCG, you mean without deca, right?

 

[LAM]

When you say enanthate only, you don't mean without HCG, you mean without deca, right?

it's not absolutely neccessary to run HCG on a test only cycle. testicular atrophy hits us all different and some not at all. now for a cycle that contains deca or tren I would say HCG on cycle is a must.

 

[musclepump]

I'm going to do my first cycle as Test E only, but I'm going to have HCG because I'm overly protective of my testicles.

 

[CarguyJB163]

it will be my first cycle and i want to use the deca b/c it does help the joints somewhat and when i lift heavy i can feel my elbows hurting. (If i throw a football for more than 20 minutes my elbow starts to hurt pretty bad). My buddy has the same problem in his shoulder and deca helps him so i thought i would add it in. Or am i being a steriod "newb" with that idea?

 

[CarguyJB163]

and yeah the enan will be for 10 weeks LAM

 

[LAM]

it will be my first cycle and i want to use the deca b/c it does help the joints somewhat and when i lift heavy i can feel my elbows hurting. (If i throw a football for more than 20 minutes my elbow starts to hurt pretty bad). My buddy has the same problem in his shoulder and deca helps him so i thought i would add it in. Or am i being a steriod "newb" with that idea?

the deca will help your joints but by starting out taking 2 injectables you aren't going to know how each one effects you. say you break out in acne or your PCT doesn't go well and it takes a while for your HPTA function to return to normal. you have no way of troubleshooting any possible problems

 

[CarguyJB163]

i see ur point and i believe it is valid. would the deca take away some of the soreness from the nean (both are qv and seem to be bad at hurting from what i've read) and when do i start the next cycle, i was thinking as long as i was on have that time off then back on

 

[LAM]

I've used QV enanthate and i didn't get any pain from it.

 

[TrojanMan60563]

I was on enanthate/deca for only 6 weeks before having to stop because of blood pressure issues and my balls did not shrink much if any..I had had a great sex drive even after....but its just now about 3 months later that I am actually starting to feel normal again...so I think I was suppressed from the deca and so I wouldn't recommend deca without HCG in place...I have it...just didn't use it or do any PCT in fear of my pressure going for the worst...and at the time we are talking pressure 170/110...nothing to take lightly...so I didn't want to add to the mix....so without PCT or HCG it took me probably 3 months for shit to get right again...I didn't get any loss of sex drive or anything...but something didn't feel right for quite some time....be safe bro..please.

 

[Pirate!]

I'm going to do my first cycle as Test E only, but I'm going to have HCG because I'm overly protective of my testicles.

Good call. I've had to talk a few of my friends into getting hcg before their first test only cycle (10 wks), and they were very glad they listened.

 

[coolbreezendez]

I was on enanthate/deca for only 6 weeks before having to stop because of blood pressure issues and my balls did not shrink much if any..I had had a great sex drive even after....but its just now about 3 months later that I am actually starting to feel normal again...so I think I was suppressed from the deca and so I wouldn't recommend deca without HCG in place...I have it...just didn't use it or do any PCT in fear of my pressure going for the worst...and at the time we are talking pressure 170/110...nothing to take lightly...so I didn't want to add to the mix....so without PCT or HCG it took me probably 3 months for shit to get right again...I didn't get any loss of sex drive or anything...but something didn't feel right for quite some time....be safe bro..please.

Trojan How much muscle did you retain?
What was your training like right after you stopped your cycle?

 

[TrojanMan60563]

I went from 260-265 depending on time of day to 285lbs in that 6 weeks. I know a lot of it was water because I was bloating and retaining water in my legs mostly around my ankles...my shoes fit really tight compaired to before...and my feel looked swollen. I have been dieting since the cycle ended and right now approx 3 months later I am 268lbs in the morning and around 272lbs during the day....I didn't change my weight training only started in increase cardio and drop calories slowly from 4500 or so to the 3500 I am at now...I want to get down to around 2500 and hold calories there until I get down to around 220lbs...that should put me around 8-9% BF....I would like to get there and not ever go above 10% as long as I live...even if that means staying smaller...I don't like the feeling of carrying the extra weight around and its putting obvious strain on my heart with increased pressure....not worth it....but I guess to more directly answer your question I didn't try to retain anything and its hard to tell if I've lost muscle while dieting...I know my arms are down .5"....everything else looks about the same...shoulders are not as round....but don't do deca/tren or maybe even EQ without having HCG...I honestly think even the 6 weeks at 400mg a week of deca shut me down pretty good...next cycle I am going back to the basics and probably running a 6-8 week prop only cycle followed by a proper PCT and I think I will run the HCG even with that cycle to be on the safe side. But thats not until I get down to my goal or closer to it....a LOT closer... I won't touch anything until I am at least 15% or less BF....and I'll probably run T3 with that test as well to help cut BF even further.

 

[musclepump]

Good call. I've had to talk a few of my friends into getting hcg before their first test only cycle (10 wks), and they were very glad they listened.

Yeah, there are some things in life I value enough to be overly cautious with

 

[LAM]

I won't touch anything until I am at least 15% or less BF....and I'll probably run T3 with that test as well to help cut BF even further.

good call. most people do not know that AAS lowers glucose tolerance. when you are lean for the most part you will see greater increases in LBM and decrease the possiblities of estrogen related sides.

 

[Tha Don]

good call. most people do not know that AAS lowers glucose tolerance. when you are lean for the most part you will see greater increases in LBM and decrease the possiblities of estrogen related sides.

would the t3 not increase catabolism thus interfering with gains from the test? or did you mean you'd run the test/t3 as a cutter? i mean you wouldn't run t3 on a mass gainer would you?

 

[TrojanMan60563]

LAM I didn't get much estrogen sides other then the water.....but I learned that when the BF is already high it only makes it that much harder on your body....when I am leaner my blood pressure will probably be much lower and ready to go up safely on cycle compaired to past cycle....

Young D....the T3 will stop some LBM gains but will aid greatly with fat loss on the test. I think you will still have LBM gains for sure on the test/T3...its will just aid in added fat loss. It also depends a lot on the dose of test and t3...I probably won't go above 50mcg...maybe...big maybe 75mcg

 

[Tha Don]

LAM I didn't get much estrogen sides other then the water.....but I learned that when the BF is already high it only makes it that much harder on your body....when I am leaner my blood pressure will probably be much lower and ready to go up safely on cycle compaired to past cycle....

Young D....the T3 will stop some LBM gains but will aid greatly with fat loss on the test. I think you will still have LBM gains for sure on the test/T3...its will just aid in added fat loss. It also depends a lot on the dose of test and t3...I probably won't go above 50mcg...maybe...big maybe 75mcg

what will your diet be like?

 

[TrojanMan60563]

I am probably not going to change it from what it is right now.... until I am as lean as I want to get

Breakfast: 6 eggs (2 whole) 1 cup oats and 1 scoop ON whey in skim 8oz

Brunch: 2 scoops ON whey

Lunch: 1 large boneless skinless chicken breast (42g protein) handful broccoli

Mid day: 2 scoops ON whey

Dinner: same meal as lunch

workout weights/cardio post workout 2 scoops whey 1 banana with table spoon flax oil

Before bed: 1 scoop time released protein by MHP

That is about what my diet looks like...if I snack its usually a scoop of peanut butter.

 

[Pirate!]

would the t3 not increase catabolism thus interfering with gains from the test? or did you mean you'd run the test/t3 as a cutter? i mean you wouldn't run t3 on a mass gainer would you?

Low/moderate doses of T3 with an increased caloric intake will actually increase protein synthesis. 25 mcg/day is good for a bulker, IMO.

 

[Tha Don]

Low/moderate doses of T3 with an increased caloric intake will actually increase protein synthesis. 25 mcg/day is good for a bulker, IMO.

really? if i was to drop my bodyfat right down, then hit maintenance and run a mass gainer cycle with 25mcg of t3 alongside would that keep the fat off whilst being able to make good mass/strength gains? not saying i'd do that but it would be something to consider