Please Critique A Newbie's Routine & Diet

[kyoun1e]

Folks,

First time poster and new to the boards. Warning: Long post. I'm 40, 6-2, 208 and looking to gain lean muscle mass and burn that annoying fat that just doesn't want to leave certain areas.

I've been working out pretty consistently for years, but I've been stuck for a while. Starting mid-January, I decided to give a new type of routine a whirl. I believe the technical term is "German Volume Training." It also goes by the name "Ten Sets Of Ten." Another version is Vince Gironda's 8 x 8 training. Anyway, the idea is this: You do many more sets than usual at lighter weight to "recruit muscle fibers you normally wouldn't" with less sets. Also, there is very little rest between sets -- say 15 - 30 seconds -- so you are really huffing and puffing and burning fat. This also has you out of the gym in no more than 45 minutes to reduce the risk of over training. You could Google this and someone else probably explains it better.

Here's an example of my last week split::

CHEST / SHOULDERS

* 8 x 8 bench
* 8 x 8 incline DBs
* 8 x 8 Shoulder Press
* 8 x 8 Lateral raises
* Mop Up: Some abs

BACK / ARMS

* 8 x 8 Seated Row
* Alternating with weighted pull ups
* 8 x 8 One Arm Rows
* 8 x 8 Gironda "Drag Curls"
* Dips (Usually can't do 8 x 8 at this point..wasted)
* Mop Up: Abs

LEGS / ABS

* 8 x 8 Squat
* 8 x 8 Weighted Lunges
* Usually 2 8 x 8s of different ab exercises

The creators of this routine recommend only one exercise per muscle group...I break this rule clearly.

Anyways, I've been doing my version of this and it is KICKING MY BUTT! Like I said, I've been working out for years and this had just devastated me.
I've been doing it a month, and I feel like it's working -- I've more or less gone from 202 to 208 and my midsection is tighter.

As for diet, here's your average day:

* 8 AM: .5 cups oatmeal, banana, 2 amplified creatine pills
* 10 AM: 4 slices roast beef rolled in provalone cheese (or a yogurt with fruit nuts)
* 1 PM: Lunch -- 1.5 scoops wheybolic protien, chicken salad
* 4 PM: Snack -- Apple, 2-4 slices roast beef and cheese
* 7 PM: Dinner -- good 8 oz of meat wherever I can find it, veggies
* 9 PM: Snack -- try to find some almonds, mixed nuts...can't yet do cottage cheese

A few questions:

* Do you think I'm possibly overtraining?
* While GVT may be working "now," what would be a logical change in the routine once my body adapts?
* Does my diet fit my profile, goals, and routine? (I must say, getting to 2500 calories and 1g per lb of bodyweight has been challenging).

Thanks in advance.

KY

 

[Built]

Read this and see if it answers any of your questions.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/new-members-begin-here/97077-homework-1-newbies.html

My feeling is that your diet and your training are not germane to your goals. Volume training is for bulking, not cutting. You are trying to burn off your bodyfat with high reps and short rests, and you don't understand how to set up your diet.

What time do you train, by the way?

 

[kyoun1e]

I don't really consider my goal to be cutting. From what I understand, gaining muscle makes it easier to burn fat...and this particular routine seems to help with the burning fat part as well.

So I guess my goals are:

1a: Gain muscle.
1b: Burn fat while doing so, but secondarily.

Does that make sense?

If so, in what way should I adjust my diet? To low on calories and protien?

Thanks for the reply

KY

 

[Built]

You will have to choose to EITHER build muscle OR drop fat.
You can't expect to do either well. You might gain a small amount of muscle while cutting as a novice, but you're better off not counting on it.

Please do homework 1 and get back to me with your macros and your approximate LBM and bodyfat.

 

[kyoun1e]

I like this. This is sure to clean out the riff raff I see on other site's forums.

1. Goals:

* Short-term: Ok, I'll choose one. Build muscle. I feel like I've stagnated here, thus the change of pace with GVT.
* Long-term: At 40, I'm looking to build a solid strength foundation that I can leverage for the rest of my life. I plan on being active till I drop. Want to play with my kids, feel and act strong, and looking good doing it would be nice too.

% Bodyfat: I have no clue. I don't consider myself fat except for the annoying fat around my lower abs. I'd guess if I was 185 I'd be super abs so let's say 10% (although that feels high).

2. Diet

I've actually been using Fitday for a couple weeks. I've never counted calories so this is new to me. I'd say an average day looks like this:

* Total Calories: 2500ish
* Protien: 180-200g
* Carbs: 125 - 150g -- I have been historically LOW here.
* Fat: 130 - 150g

I've used a BMR calculator and it lands apprx on 2300 calories...which I find surprising considering my size. I'm guessing that to increase muscle I probably need to get up over 2750.

Note on Carbs: I was once at 230 lbs. about 9 years ago. I went on a serious keto diet and cut out carbs completely. I was extremely happy with the results as I got down to 185. That said, I lost muscle big time. Since this time I've built back up to where I am today at 205-208, but I think this keto experience has me "anticarb."

Additionally, it's important to know that I've never been a big breakfast guy. This is probably killing me. Just within the last month it's been a major advance to eat oatmeal and a banana...and then god forbid...a couple handfuls of protien within a couple hours after.

I'm guessing that the above history may be a major reason why it's a struggle for me to get to 2500 calories.

3. See below on GVT or 8 x 8s


If I've missed anything let me know.

I really appreciate this.

Thanks.

KY

 

[Built]

Okay cool - and thank you for humouring me.

GVT might be a bit of a stretch for an unassisted male over forty, but you can always try it for a bit. As an older lifter myself, I can assure you it's a very good idea to pack on mass NOW. We'll age better because we will have done this.

You don't absolutely HAVE to eat breakfast if you don't want to. As long as you get your calories in, you'll be fine.

What time of day do you train?

 

[kyoun1e]

Sorry, forgot to answer that question...

I train pretty consistently late morning. I'm a working stiff so usually I put in a couple hours in the office then skip downstairs around 11 AM to beat the lunch crowd. This usually has me eating lunch around 1 PM.

Up until recently, I must say I've worked out for the most part on an empty stomach. It wouldn't be uncommon for my first morsel of food to enter my mouth at 1 PM after my workout. I'm guessing this probably contributed to my stagnation.

So what do you think?

Diet need any changes?

Would you recommend any routine tweaks? Or adjustments once adaptation takes place?

Thanks much for the help.

KY

 

[Built]

Good call on not training empty. You might consider getting a few protein shakes in - they are a lot easier to manage than solid food when you've got a persnickety tummy. Since you train early in the day, eating some starches in the AM is indeed prudent.

How were you training up until you started this GVT thing?

 

[kyoun1e]

I think I'm getting in the groove in the AM with the oatmeal and banana. It's a start. I've been thinking about throwing another wheybolic protien drink in there, but I've been told that my 1.5 scoops or 30g is enough for a day. Another one of those and I'm comfortably over 200g of protien per day.

My previous routine focused on beating the hell out of one muscle group per day. So for example, I'd do four 3-4 different exercises for chest, shoulders, back, and bis. I'd do a couple sets of abs here and there and usually do 30 minutes of cardio every other workout. Plenty of rest between sets too.

Also, my reps and weight were wacky. I'd say do 4 - 5 sets of chest starting with low weight/high reps and work up to low reps (3-4) heavy weight. I'd always end an excercise "burning it out" with tons of reps light weight.

So if you combine my previous diet (no food AM, probably not enough calories) with the above routine...probably spells disaster no?

A couple of key differences between then and now:

* NO LEGS back then. I now mixed in squats, lunges, and even some deads.
* Little rest between sets.
* Consistent weight and reps. Move up weight once 8 x 8 done comfortably.
* Diet altered a bit.

Would be interested to know if understanding where I've been, my current routine/diet is an improvement...or at least headed in a better direction understanding some necessary tweaks.

Thanks.

KY

 

[Built]

My feeling is that you might do better to switch to a lower volume, movement-based approach for a bit while you re-orient yourself. You've moved from a high volume plan to another high volume plan.

Nothing wrong with having another shake. I'd highly recommend it in your case.

I have a few workouts posted on my blog you are more than welcome to look at and rape for parts. P-funk has an excellent blog to check out, as does Gazhole.

 

[kyoun1e]

I think what I'm going to do is let this GVT cycle run it's course. After this week it will be 4 weeks. Could be a logical time to switch since I'm headed skiing for a few days so that could break things up. I may use weeks 5-6 as transition weeks to move to a lower volume routine.

I can understand why people just refuse to change their routine. This one seems to be working and I'm loathe to change, but you probably need to mix things up before adaptation occurs.

I'll probably try and mix another protien drink in there in the morning once my body feels like it can take it. I think my stomach is still getting used to consuming more in the morning. Probably better to gradually increase.

I'll definitely check out your routines. If anything off the top of your head makes sense for someone going from high volume to low let me know.

Thanks for your insight here.

KY